Buying used from Tesla, bad experience, any recourse?

[ElectricLove]

Bought an X from Tesla this week.

Those that don’t know the process, it goes same as buying new;
1. Pay an “order fee” (extra $100 slapped on top of the price)
2. Arrange trade-in or whatever payment method you will use (just check box in app)
3. Wait for deliver to be scheduled
4. Go to appointment, see vehicle at delivery center, visual inspection
5. Pay them and drive away...

We went through this and always “trusted” Tesla. I’ve owned 5 Teslas before (2 roadsters and 3 S), not new to the cars, but never purchased directly from them before. So when they said “no test drives and no returns” I wanted to believe everything would be just fine.

I was wrong!

We made the process as easy and painless on Tesla as we could; paid in full in cash, didn’t get overly picky at delivery on petty items, came early for appointment (they ended up an hour behind so we waited for 2 hours), flew to California (from Tempe, AZ) to pick it up where it was located, etc

The car looked fine, couple dings consistent with mileage and photos on their listing, detailing job sucked, lots of dirt and French fries in the cracks of seats... but hey that’s just clean-up, no big deal...

So, we drive off, feeling mostly good about our new X and excited to drive it home on the 6-7hrs journey.

Then it went downhill, 20 minutes into driving we had an autopilot mishap where it dove off the road slightly and said camera obstruction. Windshield totally clean, skies clear and middle of day in Costa Mesa (4pm)... thought that was odd... then a few minutes later it happened again while AP was engaged... we mostly didn’t use AP but just cruise control down to San Diego to supercharger there (taking the longer way home vs I-10, has another pickup on way home).

Once we left San Diego cruise control would not engage or respond, trying to turn on AP the car then said “cameras need alignment, contact service”, so we went on app and next available appointment is more than a week out.

We had to drive home without even having cruise control available on the car. Sales Advisor only responded with “contact service”.

So that was the first issue, now second; the car will only charge up to 233mi “rated” range at 100% SOC. This brings in another used inventory issue, other than telling us “everything is in good health” there is no real way of knowing what the range is going to be when you buy a used one from Tesla. And the kicker is their postings clearly give a rated range consistent with the new range, on ours the listing said 257mi range. We expected 257 or at least close to it (2-3% variance), not the nearly 10% less that our vehicle is actually at.

Told sales person and their response was again to ask service. Asked service and they say it’s consistent with age to have that much degradation of range... ok great, but why wasn’t I told this before buying? Why doesn’t Teslas sales listing for these vehicles tell you the actual rated range instead of the “original” range if they clearly know the two aren’t at parity?

Third issue; they left the tow receiver installed and at Costa Mesa (delivery center) told me they don’t have the key. Sales person said “contact service” so I went to our local SC (Tempe) today and they said they don’t have keys for these, they tried the 4 keys they had from units on the shelf and none worked.

So, here we are, feeling like idiots for buying a very expensive car, handing over a huge sum of hard-earned cash and no feeling like we got the raw end of the deal on items we could not have known prior to purchase (range after charging and AP failures, obviously the receiver we saw at pickup)...

I reached out to sales advisor and asked if we could return it or exchange for a different one (pay the difference) that has a healthier battery and operational AP... she only indicated that they don’t do returns...

Thus far I have only gotten “no” as an answer.

I’m wondering if others have had similar disappointments with used purchases from Tesla and if so any positive resolutions or ideas you could share with me to help me through this?

I don’t know what I can do to help alleviate the situation and walk away feeling like we came to amicable resolution where both parties feel good about the situation...

 

[exxer]

Have you or your attorney read the purchase agreement? I’m inclined to think Tesla has no interest of taking this lemon off of you until legally required. May be time to lawyer up.

On a broader scale, Tesla has a debt:equity ratio of 3:2 so they are in no place to be offering goodwill credits or returns like an established vehicle manufacturer or Apple.

I even had a contact within corporate but have not heard anything regarding my lease contract issue.

Based on what I’ve read on TMC and my poor buying experience, I am backing away from a Tesla until they get these growing pains out. I’ll check back in 5 or 10 years.

Good luck.

 

[ElectricLove]

That is what I’m afraid of too... I love Tesla, like I mentioned, and love their vehicles (the rest of the company... meh) tho, so don’t want to make more painful than necessary.

I mean, I’d they just offered something, anything, to demonstrate they hear my concern and want to make things better for me. I’d be satisfied.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I think the 233 miles of rated range on a '16 X90D isn't far off of expectation (depending on mileage). However, I don't really understand how they could advertise the range when new to sell a used vehicle.

I am having similar AP issues on our MX, where AP will say a camera is obstructed when it isn't. Generally, it will come back after a while. I haven't had time to ask service to look into it, but I think it's interesting that we seem to be having the same issue with the same model.

Two of your issues seem like service should be able to remedy, emphasis on should.

Sure wish I could offer more helpful advice. Hope you get it worked out.

 

[chukiechz]

I purchased mine used from Costa Mesa as well. Battery range was displayed on pick up and I was aware of the degradation, and it was on par with other 90s. Also noticed after I got home that some of the body panels are mismatched in color, so I think the car was in an accident before and repainted, but not disclosed.

Upon pulling out, I got this terrible knocking noise underneath. Delivery center basically said it will be addressed at the next available SC appt (over 1 month out).

I’ve gotten it fixed since then along with many other things. 2 of 3 rear seats being replaced, new front door latches, new proximity computer for self presenting door, front window seal adjustment.

All of these were done under warranty. I think Tesla would rather sell a car as is, and let the consumer find the flaws to fix, instead of being proactively correcting before sale.

I still love my car, and slowly but surely it’s getting the kinks worked out.

 

[Uncle Paul]

My Dad always warned me that when you buy a used car...you are buying somebody else's problems.

 

[Hovscorpion1]

First and foremost the 90D was only in production for 1 year before being discontinued in 2017. What was the mileage of the vehicle when you took delivery? 233 miles is a 9% degradation of battery. Per Tesla 9% is still under good conditions. Tesla will not replace a battery until it has reach at least minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity. in a three year period it comes down to how much abuse the previous owner put the vehicle through. A good reminder when making a used purchase is to as the service center to charge to 100% before making the purchase to get an understanding on the max range. if your vehicle comes with high mileage, battery loss comes with it. A bit surprised for someone who has 5 Tesla's.

As far as autopilot, make sure all cameras are clean. (again, for someone who owns 5 Tesla's very surprising). If the cameras are clean, make a service apt, to have the sensors looked at.

 

[MXWing]

My Dad always warned me that when you buy a used car...you are buying somebody else's problems.

Not always true. The MX I sold had no problems and I babied the vehicle entire time I owned it.

 

[exxer]

Not always true. The MX I sold had no problems and I babied the vehicle entire time I owned it.

Agreed. I have never owned a new car for 20 years if my adult life. All Japanese cars and not a single unexpected repair. I throughly researched each vehicle and avoided the major flaws. We don’t have this type of hindsight yet with Tesla’s since they are relatively new.

 

[ElectricLove]

The other trouble with "researching" the vehicle is that TESLA does NOT allow test drives prior to purchase, so there is only so much you can do. With the battery and range indicator also sometimes extrapolation of what the current readings are is not perfectly accurate (have to get a good balanced pack to know for sure what it is at). TESLA does have the ability to run diagnostics and could give you an actual miles range estimate for each vehicle, but they do not, they just post them for sale and claim the same as originally sold new (257 for a X90D).

Yeah, growing pains for sure but they should do a better job with their premium vehicles, but literally everyone says that same thing and they don't seem to care since people keep buying the cars regardless (because the vehicles are amazing and knock your socks off!)... Don't know how sustainable that is...

 

[snorp]

I would pay 5% more for my next Tesla vehicle if all sales and service interactions were managed through Mercedes.

 

[Uncle Paul]

But Mercedes charges 25% premium for their cars over competitive cars.

 

[BulldogsRus]

Have you or your attorney read the purchase agreement? I’m inclined to think Tesla has no interest of taking this lemon off of you until legally required. May be time to lawyer up.

On a broader scale, Tesla has a debt:equity ratio of 3:2 so they are in no place to be offering goodwill credits or returns like an established vehicle manufacturer or Apple.

I even had a contact within corporate but have not heard anything regarding my lease contract issue.

Based on what I’ve read on TMC and my poor buying experience, I am backing away from a Tesla until they get these growing pains out. I’ll check back in 5 or 10 years.

Good luck.

The other problem is that it appears that once you go buyback then Tesla cuts bait with you, and will block you from buying another from them directly. Not sure what recourse they have w/third party and providing warranty service though.

 

[BulldogsRus]

The other trouble with "researching" the vehicle is that TESLA does NOT allow test drives prior to purchase, so there is only so much you can do. With the battery and range indicator also sometimes extrapolation of what the current readings are is not perfectly accurate (have to get a good balanced pack to know for sure what it is at). TESLA does have the ability to run diagnostics and could give you an actual miles range estimate for each vehicle, but they do not, they just post them for sale and claim the same as originally sold new (257 for a X90D).

Yeah, growing pains for sure but they should do a better job with their premium vehicles, but literally everyone says that same thing and they don't seem to care since people keep buying the cars regardless (because the vehicles are amazing and knock your socks off!)... Don't know how sustainable that is...

Because all we keep hearing is "wait until X comes out with their EVs", yet nothing has really competed as well unfortunately.

 

[nctalkinghead]

I am driving my third Tesla - S and 2 X's - and have almost 100,000 miles in my drive log. First bought the S in 12/2015 and was treated like a king at delivery in Rockville, MD SC. Bought a 2016 X90D in 6/2017 and was treated like a prince at the delivery in Raleigh, NC SC. Kind of understood since there really was no need to explain all Tesla things to a prior owner. Bought Brand New 2018 Model X in 12/2018 had to pick it up at a vacant lot with a temp trailer in a most undesirable area of Raleigh, NC. Treated like I was getting a Yugo.

Service over the years has declined on the same curve. Fortunately, I have only had about a dozen relatively small issues and the Raleigh SC has fixed them. But on each of the trips back home after the last three visits I have proclaimed I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER TESLA! I am still in love with the car, but the service experience would be the "never again" reason, if that day comes. I have had better service at the local Hyundai dealer.

 

[W&B2017X]

Sorry to hear about your issues but this appears to be systemic. I may have you beat on all counts except after the delivery and that is TBD. The purchase has been a difficult from the start but the very short version is poor communication, can't see or drive what you are buying before you buy even thought the car is in town. The car option list from when I first purchased the car thru last Tuesday and changed sometime after that changed. I pulled it up and noticed additional line items which you think would be good except these line items started with the word NO. When I reached out to the sales team last Wednesday to ask just what these changes actually mean for the car I purchased I did not hear back until I received a text 3 days later at 11:00 at night asking me to cal him on Sat. (to be fair on this occasion I misread the text and thought he was going to be calling me since I was the one who made that last call but hey why should the customer have to keep chasing after them) Sat came and went at which time I opened up the full text and discovered that it was him asking me to call him again.

I received a text on Friday at about 16:00 to confirm and accept delivery on Monday (today) at 10:30 which I did. I then received a call yesterday that the car is onsite but service has some issues will update you in the am. Received a call this am that it could be 1 1/2 weeks to two weeks but they were going to call me after they had more info. I waited a couple of hours and since I had cleared my calendar expecting to take possession of the car I decided why not go to the dealership and get everything squared away and get a reasonable timeline. Service told me they can't give me any info because technically the car still belongs to Tesla, operations didn't have time to come out and speak with me. I asked one of the new sales people if anyone from delivery was available to speak with me to be told they are all in Vegas. I told him then who would have been here and responsible for my delivery this morning? He then went into the office to see what he could find out for me. They told him the car has rear bumper damage and some bad sensors. I asked about the damage and if I could see it to be told the car is on an offsite lot. I could see no sign of bumper damage in the link for the cars pics which also makes me wonder.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never in my life been treated this way when purchasing a car. I find it hard to believe that you are expected to buy a used car without seeing it or drive it but I played along. Now that I have discovered that car may not actually have the options I was expecting because the system was updated they still won't let me put eyes on the car to check just what it is I am buying. This is not how business is done. When you order a new car you know what you are getting ahead of time so you don't have a need to actually see the car. When you are standing in the dealership after a confirmed car on the morning it was supposed to be delivered you should not be dismissed as if you are complaining about buying a 30 year old Yugo off of a small one hut used car lot.

This has no reflection on the local new sales team as they have been fantastic and I wish I could justify a new Model X. The used cars department leaves much to be desired. They mostly stay behind closed doors and only deal with people via email, text or a call. It's funny when you ask the used car team a question, they usually tell you they need to ask delivery, delivery told me I needed to speak to the sales team.

 

[ElectricLove]

Yeah, I'm right there with you, crazy how difficult it is to ask them a question and then how difficult it is to get a real answer and not a referral to someone else to ask.

The Model X is a wonderful car and you will love it for sure once you get it but the service and sales experience is such absolute garbage. I don't see myself buying another from TESLA directly, instead I'll just look for a best value and set some money aside with the expectation to spend a little on repairs as they come my way.

Update on our end: Went to service center as the sales person suggested, they were clueless on all fronts and said to just add it all into my service description for appointment which is tomorrow, they say the people who review those prior to the service call should know (pass the buck, yet again, yes indeed!). Did a full charge calibration deal (run to 0% then fully charge giving time for balancing) and now the range is even lower... 231 @ 100% Rated...

Hoping for a better experience starting tomorrow!

 

[SoCalTezla]

Keep us updated @ElectricLove

Hoping Tesla gives you some kind of resolution. It's ridiculous how awful their service has gotten. I don't even want to know what happens when the Y starts being delivered.

 

[Curious George]

The range issue with used Teslas has a class action lawsuit. This is an issue with used electric cars.

Tesla Class Action Says Pre-Owned Warranties Aren't Honored | Top Class Actions

After he took the vehicle home and started to charge the battery, he reportedly found out that the battery only lasted 166 miles on a full charge. The plaintiff claims that he brought the car to a service center and they made a correction to the Battery Management System (BMS), but that didn’t fix the problems with the battery.

The Tesla class action lawsuit alleges, “Plaintiff was told to report back to the service center after driving around with the car and after ‘cycling’ the battery, which refers to the practice of charging to 100% and discharging the battery to low levels for purposes of recalibrating the battery.” The plaintiff claims that Tesla informed him that his vehicle suffers from “normal battery degradation.”

“Despite the fact that Tesla warrantied Plaintiff’s vehicle with a 2-year, 100,000 mile limited warranty, and the fact that it provided a 8-year, unlimited mile battery warranty, Tesla has failed its duty to Plaintiff by unlawfully, improperly, and fraudulently denying proper service and repair of Plaintiff’s vehicle,” the Tesla class action lawsuit alleges.

“Tesla focuses its efforts on allaying the fears of what some drivers of electric vehicles call ‘range anxiety’ by representing to consumers nationwide that they can rely on Tesla’s promises to take care of them no matter what happens to the batteries of Tesla’s vehicles. As it turns out for many consumers who were led on to believe Tesla’s promises, the fact is that Tesla never actually meant to keep their promises and follow through on their guarantees,” the plaintiff states.

The Tesla class action lawsuit is alleging violations of the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Federal Trade Commission Act, Used Motor Vehicle Trade Regulation Rule, and numerous California laws including the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, Consumer’s Legal Remedies Act, Unfair Competition Law, and Violation of California’s False Advertising Law.

 

[W&B2017X]

Good luck with that appointment. I was told to call the sales rep to get more info before before I left. I did and to no surprise I did not get a return call. Again, good luck and I hopes thing get better moving forward for you.