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By 2022 all BMW's will be AWD range-extender electric cars | Electric Vehicle...

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by ecarfan, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2015/06/by-2020-all-bmws-will-be-awd-range.html
    According to that article, by 2022 all BMW models from the 3-series on up will be AWD with dual electric motors and an ICE that will be used primarily to recharge the battery but will also be capable of driving the front wheels, similar to the Chevy Volt. The article states that BMW will be making their car bodies lighter to compensate for the battery weight, which I assume means building on what they have learned from the i3 and i8 body designs.
    So if that report is accurate, while BMW seems unwilling to make the leap to 100% BEVs, the company is abandoning the ICE as the primary source of power to the wheels and relegating it to serving principally as an onboard battery charger and occasional power booster when battery power is low, I assume.

    This is big news; while disappointing that BMW is not going "full BEV" (possibly the company does not want to build out a useful high-speed charging network as Tesla is doing) they will be close to it and it is a tacit admission that the days of ICE cars are numbered. I believe that the success of the Model S was a major factor in this change by BMW. Of course I do not expect any current BMW manager or corporate exec to admit that.
     
  2. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    Pretty awesome news for the performance enthusiast, though not as exciting for the environmentalist. My main concern isn't so much the fact that they're retaining an ICE for regeneration applications, as it is whether they'll go with a skateboard form factor or take the GM route and mount a heavy battery seemingly as high as possible. But going with an ICE to recharge the battery, while adding complexity, eliminates the issue of lack of charging infrastructure and diminishes the importance of energy density since you can choose between which fuel type you top up on. Also battery packs don't need to be as large, cutting down on weight, so they can configure the pack to be more "bursty" with the power if miles per charge isn't as big a factor. I wonder where they're going to source their cells.
     
  3. SteveG3

    SteveG3 Active Member

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    Thanks for posting this ecarfan. I have almost no doubt this would not have happened in this timeframe without Tesla. This sort of plan makes sense for BMW and the other existing automakers. They have so much invested in ICE (money, talent, identity internally and with consumers), it's hard to abandon all of that. What's more, environmentally, if this does turn out to be how the incumbents transition, it may be the most efficient way of using the limited total battery supply as it ramps up (which I think will take decades... $1 trillion at current GF price). That is, if 75 kWh of battery could go into one BEV or 3 plug-in hybrids with 40-50 miles of range that drive 75% of their miles as in EV mode, isn't the battery supply being used more efficiently to replace pure ICE vehicles in the second second scenario? In the meantime, inherent pure BEV advantages will mean Tesla's BEVs will be a better product than these plug-in hybrids to nearly all consumers. Maybe everyone will be a winner : ) I'd be quite pleased if BMW takes this path.
     
  4. woof

    woof Model S #P683 Blue 85 kWh

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  5. Bangor Bob

    Bangor Bob Member

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    While good news, there is no attribution to anyone at BMW in the source article at Autonews.

    So color me somewhat skeptical for now...
     
  6. Spidy

    Spidy Member

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    The main reason they are doing it is probably because of EU regulations.

    Also the fact that they only do it 3 series upwards probably is simply due to the price. Teslas Model 3 mass market car is still significantly more expensive than a 1 series.
     
  7. Blurry_Eyed

    Blurry_Eyed MS Sig #267, MX Sig # 761

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    Wonder where BWM will get their batteries from? BWM sold over 2m vehicles in 2014. Even if they put in a smallish 10kWh to 20kWh battery, that is still a lot of battery cells.
     
  8. jhs_7645

    jhs_7645 VIN: #3305

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    ^^ This…

    No manufacturer’s claims about going electric can be taken seriously unless there is movement to build out a battery factory first, and we haven’t seen that from anybody but Tesla.
     
  9. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Seven years? Never going to happen.
     
  10. tomas

    tomas Traded in 9 rep bars for M3, used to be somebody!

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    That's what many said about tesla. Never going to happen. Dobtful anyone meets these aspirational goals exactly, but if this is where they are headed, it is to be applauded. Destination is probably all cars offered with in 2022, not every car delivered with.
     
  11. jgs

    jgs Member

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    I can think of a few reasons for a manufacturer to retain the ICE, and conversely to ditch it.

    Con ICE:
    - Maintenance, cost. (But this is primarily an issue for the consumer, not the manufacturer. It may even be a negative for the manufacturer, if they have ICE maintenance as a profit center.)
    - Cost to develop ICE design and manufacturing expertise. That investment better spent elsewhere. (This applies to a greenfield manufacturer like Tesla, but not an incumbent.)

    Pro ICE:
    - Avoid need for a charging network.
    - Faster fueling (if you think this is important).
    - Leverage sunk cost in ICE design and manufacturing expertise, maintain barrier to entry if you can convince consumers that "range anxiety" is a thing.
    - Maintain jobs for current ICE design and manufacturing workforce.

    I think all of these are old observations except possibly the last one. Given what I've often heard about strong workforce job protection in Germany, I wonder if the last point is actually a thing. If you have a large workforce dedicated to producing ICEs, maybe they change from a strength into a huge boat anchor overnight if you decide to go full-BEV. In many other countries, they might well just be fired, but in Germany? Law of unintended consequences strikes again?
     
  12. SteveG3

    SteveG3 Active Member

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    Important point, thanks Spidy.
     
  13. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    I firmly believe that they will have this plug-in "Power e-Drive" system available on every model series from 3-series on up. However, available does not mean that it will be a sizable percentage of sales. It will likely only be sizable enough to meet government requirements, market by market.
     
  14. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Interesting article, that references this:

    Future BMW 3-series to lead EV revolution | Autocar

    Where it says, as the only BMW "source":

    "BMW won’t reveal the details of this new combined electric motor and transmission system, but company engineers told Autocar that the combustion engine would probably be driving the front wheels only about 10 per cent of the time in a typical journey.
    This, they said, allowed them to run the engine at ‘Lambda 1’ for 90 per cent of the time. This means that the engine is run very lean, with no need for any kind of enrichment by the fuel injection system, resulting in reduced fuel use."

    While I think it's very plausbile things will go down this orute, I'd take it with a big grain of salt as it's far from official.
     
  15. matbl

    matbl Member

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    And that article is almost 6 months pld... It was also published here Future BMW 3 Series and up all to become plug-in hybrids?
    with sort of confirmation fom bmw insiders...
     
  16. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    and by 2022 Tesla will be ...
     
  17. ggies07

    ggies07 Active Member

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    exactly. They should/could be at $100 kwh range for batteries. It's freakin laughable that these other automakers continue to push anything with an engine beyond 2020.......get with the program!
     
  18. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    I don't put all of the blame on the manufacturers. Part of the blame is on the consumers too. They are too afraid of change and find comfort in gas stations. Perfect example is the second comment in the article: "So, 2021 will be the last year to even consider buying a BMW. Got it." I rest my case.

    Most EV owners (especially Tesla) realize there's no need for a gas engine but the general public just isn't there yet.

    If all consumers demanded BEV's, manufacturers would make the STAT. Some day, this will happen and probably sooner than most people think, but it's a hard sell on a good percentage of consumers, even when the car is that much better.
     
  19. ggies07

    ggies07 Active Member

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    Ah, yes, they are both afraid. It's amazing that they havent moved faster to catch up with Tesla because if Tesla had all the battery supplies they needed and could crank out cars like widgets, then sales would deminish quickly for BMW and others.

    So the car companies are going to have to push the consumer whether they like it or not.
     
  20. renim

    renim Member

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    the description
    '"BMW won’t reveal the details of this new combined electric motor and transmission system, but company engineers told Autocar that the combustion engine would probably be driving the front wheels only about 10 per cent of the time in a typical journey.'

    almost perfectly matches the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV,

    dual electric motor, one on each axle,
    front engine also capable of driving the front wheels
    battery along the centre of the vehicle.
    compatible body between PHEV, petrol and diesel versions.
    no reduction of cabin space
     

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