Because there are bad people who want to circumvent attention monitors so car companies have to put more devices or more sophisticated devices to stop them. I have no problem with them circumventing if it leads to their injury or death, the problem becomes when they hurt others... They are the reason we can't have nice things.
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Cabin camera soon to be required for all AP features?
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The real reason we can't have nice things is Consumer Reports.
They always want to bubble wrap the users.
Their utopia is a bouncy house.
Where do you draw the line? Why not put tracker chips into cars to notify the authorities anytime you're speeding or driving aggressively so they can just mail you a ticket, with no questions asked. Or is that too excessive? People who want to break the laws will break the laws. If the *sugar* cabin camera is the answer then get rid of the steering wheel whack-a-mole game.
That's a bit excessive for the US, but Europe is putting speed controls in their cars.
It's 100% excessive lol. If you don't trust your own software to do what you said it'll do, then maybe you should figure out how to solve it instead of forcing a camera to watch me watching the software drive.
Two things. First off, I suspect that the NHTSA is going to attempt to claim that torque on the steering wheel isn't sufficient and try to get some rule or other passed that it has to be eyeball tracking or nothing. With the eyeball monitoring, Tesla may be trying to get out in front of this notion, in case it comes to pass.
By the by: I think that's nuts. Look at those GM ads and such on TV: The idiots are letting their self-driving cars fly along so they can play patty-cake. What's better - torque on the wheel where one is forced to have a hand on the wheel in case of an emergency in the self driving, or eyeballs-front monitoring, where, if there's an emergency, one has to move one's hands from wherever they are to the steering wheel, then try and steer.
More likely: Tesla's going to require both. Take that, NHTSA!
Second: So, I'm running around with the FSD-b. Believe you me, I'm not recommending this software for the general populace: despite any YouTube videos you all may have seen, this is not the autonomous software people are waiting for. I've had cases where the car has tried to t-bone other cars and, well, there's issues. Fine, such is life in Testing Land. I'm getting really good at hitting that, "Record!" icon on the dash.
But one has to have the camera enabled. And if the car thinks one is not paying attention, it tells one so. Literally.
I've been getting one or two of these, "Pay attention!" thingies per drive.. When, truly, duly, my eyes have been out the window, doing the usual scan. Front, sides, rear view mirror, dash, just like Driver's Ed. Especially when on a ramp with merging, high-speed, crowded traffic around and all. I mean, really, the car doesn't drive itself without major errors all the time, definitely on interstates, but particularly on local roads.
So, I've been chalking the eyeball business to the usual software bug city.. because, honest, I have been driving the car, not looking at silly things inside and all. Or whatever.
Today, over the space of fifteen minutes, I got, like, seven of those warnings; it disabled the auto steer, put up a 1st-of-five strikes against me, and warned me that five strikes would kick me out of the program. Note: I've been driving in the Beta for a little over a month and nothing like this has happened before. And, no, I wasn't playing with the radio or anything. It was out the window eyeballs all the time. With both hands on the wheel most of the time, but the sag on the wheel with one hand some of the time.
Therefore, point: If Tesla is going to shift to eyeballs on FSD, they're going to get a significant percentage of their uses with five-strikes-and-you're-out. Because that eyeball tracker is buggy. No question.
There's a new version of the FSD-b that appears to be in the works. Methinks I'm going to disable the Beta for a day or three to see if it stops warning me about "not paying attention". If it doesn't.. well, you all should be worried.
By the by: I think that's nuts. Look at those GM ads and such on TV: The idiots are letting their self-driving cars fly along so they can play patty-cake. What's better - torque on the wheel where one is forced to have a hand on the wheel in case of an emergency in the self driving, or eyeballs-front monitoring, where, if there's an emergency, one has to move one's hands from wherever they are to the steering wheel, then try and steer.
More likely: Tesla's going to require both. Take that, NHTSA!
Second: So, I'm running around with the FSD-b. Believe you me, I'm not recommending this software for the general populace: despite any YouTube videos you all may have seen, this is not the autonomous software people are waiting for. I've had cases where the car has tried to t-bone other cars and, well, there's issues. Fine, such is life in Testing Land. I'm getting really good at hitting that, "Record!" icon on the dash.
But one has to have the camera enabled. And if the car thinks one is not paying attention, it tells one so. Literally.
I've been getting one or two of these, "Pay attention!" thingies per drive.. When, truly, duly, my eyes have been out the window, doing the usual scan. Front, sides, rear view mirror, dash, just like Driver's Ed. Especially when on a ramp with merging, high-speed, crowded traffic around and all. I mean, really, the car doesn't drive itself without major errors all the time, definitely on interstates, but particularly on local roads.
So, I've been chalking the eyeball business to the usual software bug city.. because, honest, I have been driving the car, not looking at silly things inside and all. Or whatever.
Today, over the space of fifteen minutes, I got, like, seven of those warnings; it disabled the auto steer, put up a 1st-of-five strikes against me, and warned me that five strikes would kick me out of the program. Note: I've been driving in the Beta for a little over a month and nothing like this has happened before. And, no, I wasn't playing with the radio or anything. It was out the window eyeballs all the time. With both hands on the wheel most of the time, but the sag on the wheel with one hand some of the time.
Therefore, point: If Tesla is going to shift to eyeballs on FSD, they're going to get a significant percentage of their uses with five-strikes-and-you're-out. Because that eyeball tracker is buggy. No question.
There's a new version of the FSD-b that appears to be in the works. Methinks I'm going to disable the Beta for a day or three to see if it stops warning me about "not paying attention". If it doesn't.. well, you all should be worried.
Had the same issue the first couple of days on this beta revision, got 1 strike, and have not used FSD since. I'm also one of the original 99 safety score people so I've been beta testing for a while.
that is what bugs me about this whole pearl clutching thread.
This whole driver monitoring BS is being forced on us by organizations like Consumer Reports who rate the borderline pathetic Bluecruise higher than Autopilot not because it performs better, but because the driver monitoring uses a camera system.
So Tesla are stuck.
They either keep using steering wheel torque and put up with constant whining from "drivers" who can't possibly hold a steering like drivers are supposed to do. As well as being underrated by "trusted" organizations like CR who are doing their damndest to try make it a requirement.
or
They have to develop camera systems like everyone else to appease CR and various politicians, but get complaints like this thread that say its an invasion of privacy, even though every other competitor system works the same way.
I think there would be less complaints if they did one or the other. What’s next? A foot sensor? A blood pressure cuff and a pulseox? Lol
Soul Surfer
Cancervivor, tech geek & musician
bicar
Model YP
It does seem that Tesla has been slow to enforce attentiveness while on Autopilot. Consumers Reports has been quite critical of Tesla. I really don't have any issue with the camera and actually wouldn't mind if I could turn it on all the time. I suspect that there are well over a thousand times more accidents caused by inattentive driving than there are with Autopilot. If it is so helpful, I think Consumers Reports should advocate it for all cars all the time rather than being so selective. I did discontinue my subscription last year due to CR's bias and lack of consistency.
Works fine in the dark for me. Interestingly, it seems to bug me less about not paying attention when I'm wearing sunglasses.
I've had no issues with it at night. But I can't recall using FSD in really dark locations at night. It works well in urban and suburban areas. I've used NOA in some pretty dark remote highways and it did not complain.
I thought about reporting several posts in this thread…until I realized it’s my forum. Cleanup underway.
2018 M3 LR RWD, bought FSD a couple years ago, got the Gen 3 computer. Cameras and such are original.
The interior camera? I think that there are AP2.0 MCU2 users in the beta. Those users got upgraded external cameras but still have no interior camera.
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