Cadillac ELR (Converj)

[mknox]

I was driving my Volt last week and at a stoplight an existing cadillac owner was next to me.

I may have mentioned this up-thread, but I had a guy walk up to me to talk about the Model S and the first words out of his mouth was that he has a deposit down on an ELR.

 

[Blastphemy]

OK, that's one customer. So far so good!

 

[palmer_md]

With the cost of the ELR, it seems you could purchase a Volt and then have a custom body shop build you a more pleasing style of your choosing. If you want Cadillac style, I'm sure they can do it, if you want the old spaceship styling of the 50's Cadillac they could probably build that too. You would have a cool one of a kind custom car.

 

[Blastphemy]

From the specs motortrend threw around, 50 more horse power, and 20 lbs of more torque (because of the tweaked electric motor) I think it's about a second faster off the line. The 300 pounds are from the sunroof, power seats that are heated and cooled, and materials.

I thought the ELR was going to include heated and cooled seats too, but there's no mention in the most recent spec sheet. On a whim, I called the Saks Fifth Avenue ELR hotline and was told the seats are not cooled or ventilated.

Spec sheet for the 2014 ELR that was released on Friday November 15, 2014:

• The battery capacity is 16.5 kW-hr, not the 17 that has been speculated.
• Gas generator specs are identical to Volt
• Fuel economy is claimed only 33 MPG combined (same line on Volt spec sheet says 37)
• MG power is greater for ELR:
  ELR- Motors (two): 157 -181 hp / 117-135 kW max drive power; 55 kW generating power
  Volt- Motors (two); 149 hp / 111 kW max drive power; 54 kW generating power
• "Total System Power" = 162 kWh
• ELR Torque: (lb-ft / Nm): 295 / 400
• Volt Torque: (lb-ft/Nm): 273 / 368
• 0-60 mph: 7.8 sec. – range extending mode 8.8 sec. EV mode
• ELR Top Speed = 106 (Volt=100)
• EV Range = 37 miles
• Suspension has "driver selectable modes"
• Front disc rotors ELR = 12.6" Volt = 11.8"

So remind me again what I'm getting for my $89,500 (or $83,145 if I don't need a white exterior)? A slightly higher top speed that I'll never hit, fractionally faster acceleration, C.U.E., and power seats? Thanks, I'll pass. That's barely a $60,000 car, IMHO.

 

[mknox]

With the cost of the ELR, it seems you could purchase a Volt and then have a custom body shop build you a more pleasing style of your choosing. If you want Cadillac style, I'm sure they can do it, if you want the old spaceship styling of the 50's Cadillac they could probably build that too. You would have a cool one of a kind custom car.

Well, sure, but then you could buy a Leaf and have a custom Model S body built for it to, no? :wink:

 

[palmer_md]

yes, but a CTS style body on a Volt would make it nearly identical to the ELR, and a Model S body on Leaf is more like a sheep in wolfs clothing.

 

[stopcrazypp]

0-60 mph: 7.8 sec. – range extending mode 8.8 sec. EV mode

This is exactly what I suspected would be the case (performance boost mainly with engine on). And this change also makes it so that the ELR doesn't qualify for the EREV definition set by GM (since it performs better in CS mode like the Karma, while their definition says there should be no difference in performance in CD and CS modes):
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/870-Fisker-Karma/page59?p=59690&viewfull=1#post59690

 

[N4HHE]

With the cost of the ELR, it seems you could purchase a Volt and then have a custom body shop build you a more pleasing style of your choosing. If you want Cadillac style, I'm sure they can do it, if you want the old spaceship styling of the 50's Cadillac they could probably build that too. You would have a cool one of a kind custom car.

One of the coolest articles in Road & Track or Car & Driver (forgot which, maybe both) in the 1980's was of Porsche/Audi/VW building a Golf/Rabbit on a 928 chassis. Don't know why but they had the world's lowest, longest, and widest "VW" Golf.

 

[scottf200]

I thought the ELR was going to include heated and cooled seats too, but there's no mention in the most recent spec sheet. On a whim, I called the Saks Fifth Avenue ELR hotline and was told the seats are not cooled or ventilated.

Spec sheet for the 2014 ELR that was released on Friday November 15, 2014:

• The battery capacity is 16.5 kW-hr, not the 17 that has been speculated.
• Gas generator specs are identical to Volt
• Fuel economy is claimed only 33 MPG combined (same line on Volt spec sheet says 37)
• MG power is greater for ELR:
  ELR- Motors (two): 157 -181 hp / 117-135 kW max drive power; 55 kW generating power
  Volt- Motors (two); 149 hp / 111 kW max drive power; 54 kW generating power
• "Total System Power" = 162 kWh
• ELR Torque: (lb-ft / Nm): 295 / 400
• Volt Torque: (lb-ft/Nm): 273 / 368
• 0-60 mph: 7.8 sec. – range extending mode 8.8 sec. EV mode
• ELR Top Speed = 106 (Volt=100)
• EV Range = 37 miles
• Suspension has "driver selectable modes"
• Front disc rotors ELR = 12.6" Volt = 11.8"

So remind me again what I'm getting for my $89,500 (or $83,145 if I don't need a white exterior)? A slightly higher top speed that I'll never hit, fractionally faster acceleration, C.U.E., and power seats? Thanks, I'll pass. That's barely a $60,000 car, IMHO.

It goes farther than a Telsa Model S 85! <grin>

"EV / Extended range: More than 345 miles / 555 km (pending EPA certification), including EV on fully charged battery and full tank of fuel (est.)"

... wonder how the suspension will be:

HiPer Strut with continuously variable real-time damping and driver-selectable modes, specially tuned coil springs with side load compensation, direct-acting hollow stabilizer bar, hydraulic ride bushings specially adapted compound crank with Watts link; double-walled, U-shaped profile at the rear; specifically tuned coil springs, hydraulic bushings; shocks with continuously variable real-time damping and driver-selectable modes

... and you can write your own applications <grin>

The face of CUE in the ELR is an eight-inch (203 mm) LCD touch screen integrated in the top of
the central instrument panel. Its features include:
* Proximity sensing: As the user’s hand approaches the LCD screen, command icons appear. Icons can be customized and arranged by consumers to improve ease of use
* Haptic feedback: Buttons on the fully capacitive faceplate pulse when pressed to acknowledge the driver’s commands, helping the driver keep eyes on the road
* Multi-touch hand gestures: Interactive motions (tap, flick, swipe and spread) popularized by smartphones and tablets allow easy scrolling of lists, zooming maps and searching favorites on the LCD screen.
* Natural speech recognition: Enables consumers to use fewer specific commands to recall stored media or input navigation destinations. CUE’s text-to-speech feature also allows users to receive text messages by system voice and to send recorded text messages in return
* Linux operating system, ‘open’ software platform and ARM 11 three-core processor: Each operates at 400 million instructions per second and the hardware setup offers 3.5 times more processing power than current infotainment systems. It also allows developers to write applications to CUE that can be downloaded by users.

 

[Blastphemy]

You seem to be enamored of the C.U.E. system, scottf200. Have you read the reviews of C.U.E. in the XTS and ATS?

As for the suspension set-up, it's nice to know it'll drive like a Buick instead of a Chevrolet...albeit more slowly. :tongue:

Oh, sorry - was I supposed to be impressed? For $55,000-$60,000 I would be, but for $76,995-$89,500? Ha ha...nope. Not when I can get a base Tesla Model S or Cadillac Escalade for less.

The ELR is a Volt with sort-of-recent and more expensive tech dressed up to look cutting edge. A HiPer Strut suspension has been in Buicks since at least 2010, and Lane Departure Warning & Forward Collision Alert are already in the Volt they're so old. The C.U.E. system has already been out more than a year, but that does mean there's a chance it's been improved for this new car (but the videos of it in the ELR on Cadillac's website seem to indicate otherwise). I could go on, but I'm starting to beat the proverbial dead horse in this thread, and I'm sure everyone's already tired of reading the same arguments from me.

Suffice it to say, I'd like to know why the ELR doesn't have a head's-up display, night vision assist, around-view parking cameras, cooled front seats, etc. How expensive does the car have to be before Cadillac puts in the two-year old tech? And is it unreasonable to ask for the current high-end car tech in the ELR when it costs as much as an Escalade, Lexus LS460, and BMW 550i?

Let's at least pray the ELR has a better reverse camera than the Volt! That alone could be worth the extra price to some people.

 

[scottf200]

By chance I saw this in a ELR blog pointed to by a FB friend.

 

[scottf200]

You seem to be enamored of the C.U.E. system, scottf200.

I was just quoting the spec. I've only seen it briefly when I test drove a Fisker Karma and it was associated with/next to a Cadillac dealer so I sat in a car and looked at it. Seems like a lot of potential actually. You really read too much into what some people write.

 

[GSP]

ELR will support demand response and other V2G features

They are using OnStar to communicate with utilities and demand response aggregators.

Cadillac ELR Connects to the Smart Grid

GM should offer this on existing Volts as a software upgrade. That way they would have enough cars fielded to get some utilities interested.

GSP

 

[Shumdit]

Watch out Tesla, here comes Cadillacs ELR - NBC News.com

 

[qwk]

By chance I saw this in a ELR blog pointed to by a FB friend.

View attachment 36024

This is the stupidest comparison Ever! One car burns gas, the other one doesn't. $70-80k buys you a sweet gas burning car that will make the ELR seem like a Yugo by comparison.

 

[quartzav]

This is the stupidest comparison Ever! One car burns gas, the other one doesn't. $70-80k buys you a sweet gas burning car that will make the ELR seem like a Yugo by comparison.

To some people the gas burning backup is a bonus. I do think the comparison put too much options on unnecessarily to widen the price differences. $8000 price differences is more likely since the upgraded lighting group (or extended leather, rims niceness) is subjective in these kind of comparison IMHO.

 

[qwk]

To some people the gas burning backup is a bonus. I do think the comparison put too much options on unnecessarily to widen the price differences. $8000 price differences is more likely since the upgraded lighting group (or extended leather, rims niceness) is subjective in these kind of comparison IMHO.

I really don't see that as a bonus on a car like the ELR. Sad performance(especially compared to the CTS-V), which is sold right along side of it. One would have to be a fool to buy this car instead of a CTS-V or Z06 Corvette.

 

[AnOutsider]

To some people the gas burning backup is a bonus. I do think the comparison put too much options on unnecessarily to widen the price differences. $8000 price differences is more likely since the upgraded lighting group (or extended leather, rims niceness) is subjective in these kind of comparison IMHO.

I think it's fair to point out that you'd have to pay for things that are standard on an ELR.

 

[quartzav]

I think it's fair to point out that you'd have to pay for things that are standard on an ELR.

Agreed. I still think adding cost of subjective nicer looking rim and interior lightning as unfairness toward Tesla. that makes price difference around $10500 in the estimate.

- - - Updated - - -

I really don't see that as a bonus on a car like the ELR. Sad performance(especially compared to the CTS-V), which is sold right along side of it. One would have to be a fool to buy this car instead of a CTS-V or Z06 Corvette.

I also wouldn't buy ELR when compared at CTS-V price point. But people are irrational when it comes to car buying.

 

[Blastphemy]

By chance I saw this in a ELR blog pointed to by a FB friend.
Here's how one ELR owner broke it down... http://www.mycadillacelr.com/why-i-p...model-s-60kwh/

While the Tesla vs. ELR comparison chart is mostly fair, I would point out that it doesn't account for the things the Model S comes with standard that you can't get on the ELR at any price, like the insane acceleration, seating for 5 adults and 2 kids, a front trunk in addition to the rear hatchback, the panoramic roof, etc. Most of these Tesla and ELR features can be had on many upscale ICE cars for a lot less than either the Model S and ELR. Having the 37 miles of electric in the ELR just can't compensate for the huge price difference between comparable features in an ICE vs. the ELR. But the Tesla can justify it because of the entire package offered, and its successful branding as a "must-have" car of the wealthy and upper middle class.

I like this chart comparing a fully-loaded Volt and ELR (Red = Better):

Dimensions++++++++++++Volt+++++++++ELR
-------------------+------------+-----------
Battery capacity++++++++16.5 kW-hr (same)
Gas generator specs++++++++identical
Fuel economy++++++++++37 mpg+++++++33 MPG
Torque (lb-ft/Nm)++++273/368++++++295/400
0-60 mph (electric)++++9.1 sec++++++8.8 sec++(whoop-dee-doo!)
Top Speed++++++++++++100 mph++++++106 mph
EV Range++++++++++++++38 miles+++++37 miles
Front disc rotors+++++11.8"++++++++12.6"
Base Curb Weight++++3786 lbs+++++4050 lbs
Trunk Volume++++++++++10.60++++++++10.50
Height, Overall+++++++56.64 in+++++55.90 in
Length, Overall++++++177.10 in++++186.00 in
Track Width, Front++++61.20 in+++++62.10 in
Track Width, Rear+++++62.10 in+++++62.40 in
Wheelbase++++++++++++105.70 in++++106.10 in
Width, Max++++++++++++70.40 in+++++72.70 in
Front Head Room+++++++37.80 in+++++36.90 in
Front Hip Room++++++++53.73 in+++++52.90 in
Front Leg Room++++++++42.05 in+++++42.20 in
Front Shoulder Room+++56.52 in+++++55.20 in
Rear Head Room++++++++36.02 in+++++34.70 in
Rear Hip Room+++++++++51.21 in+++++48.60 in
Rear Leg Room+++++++++34.10 in+++++33.60 in
Rear Shoulder Room++++53.90 in+++++49.90 in
Fully-loaded Price++$41,000.00+++$83,000.00