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Cal ISO Demand/Supply curves

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getakey

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Jan 28, 2020
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I posted this in the Powerwall without solar thread, but going to separate out for dicsussion

Here is an interesting site for part of the grid in CA which includes PG&E. You can change the date in the graph to see past days
The second graph shows "Net Demand" which they define as demand not including renewables. You can see how the Peak demand jumps as the sun goes down. A lot of that demand is met by buying power from other Western States. There is a Supply Tab where you can see this. Note that about 10% of the capacity is supplied by Diablo Canyon nuke plant which runs 24/7. Rather than extending the life of the plant (like most other States are doing) they are going to decommission the plant in 2 years at a cost of $4Billion. What will replace this power is unclear

California ISO - Today's Outlook
 
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This is one big reason why everyone in california should be considering not only solar but also some sort of storage, imo. basically, solar + powerwalls locks in the price of your electricity, and prepares one for the future when the rates continue to change.

They already dis-incentivized solar by forcing everyone onto a time of use plan, and then making that time of use plan have peak rates when solar production is going down. They also increased non bypassable charges, i am sure under the "everyone needs to pay their fair share" notion.

The time of use rates during peak are going to get worse, while off peak pricing stays low. They are basically telling everyone "you want to do whatever you can to not buy any electricity from us from 4pm to 9pm. I see them expanding peak at some point to 3pm start even.

The only reason NOT to get batteries now, is i feel they are going to be significantly better in 5 years than they are now, and the payback if any, is long. It was worth it to me, to be as close to self reliant as I can be. Right now though, my PV installation isnt big enough. It was in 2016, but now with the model 3, it isnt now. I only generate about 90-92% of what I use, where I would like to be slightly over 100% like I was previously. Since I am on NEM 1.0 and still on a domestic plan on SCE, any additional PV will bump me off, so there is that to consider.

In any case, in CA powerwalls make either a little sense, or a lot of sense, depending on how long you plan on staying put, and how much you dislike the utilities "plans".
 
I posted this in the Powerwall without solar thread, but going to separate out for dicsussion

Here is an interesting site for part of the grid in CA which includes PG&E. You can change the date in the graph to see past days
The second graph shows "Net Demand" which they define as demand not including renewables. You can see how the Peak demand jumps as the sun goes down. A lot of that demand is met by buying power from other Western States. There is a Supply Tab where you can see this. Note that about 10% of the capacity is supplied by Diablo Canyon nuke plant which runs 24/7. Rather than extending the life of the plant (like most other States are doing) they are going to decommission the plant in 2 years at a cost of $4Billion. What will replace this power is unclear

California ISO - Today's Outlook


The [Supply] Tab of that CalISO site shows the sources and imports by hour. The peak demand after sunset is usually met by Caiifornia's own "peaker" natural gas production. The out of state import exists, but usually tops off around 10 MW per hour.

I agree with you that the solution for things once we lose Diablo Canyon is going to be costly, but it's unlikely the solution will come from buying more power from other states... they just don't have much to spare.

Unfortunately as you'd expect from PG&E... their approach to this is to just say "they are aware of the issue". But if people ask to see their plan, it's mostly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . PG&E won't disclose their plan or provide visibility into how they're making sure they can offset the loss of nuclear production.

Just like a few years ago PG&E wouldn't disclose their plan to address the risk of fires along their transmission lines as California weather patterns were becoming more severe and droughts more common. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ because they didn't have a plan.


Why Plans to Replace Diablo Canyon With 100 Percent Clean Energy Could Fall Short | KQED
PG&E says there’s a reason it hasn’t spelled out exactly how it will replace Diablo’s power: it’s hard to predict how energy technology will change.

“If I try to write down megawatt-hour by megawatt-hour what fills that gap in 2025 right now, that’s actually a losing strategy,” said Todd Strauss, PG&E’s senior director of energy policy planning.

“The proposal clearly recognizes there’s lots of other things that need to be done, but we shouldn’t specify it today,” he said. “We’re committed to having Diablo Canyon’s retirement not result in an increase in greenhouse gas emissions,” Strauss said.
 
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At this time of year imports are low, but if you look back in July/August, the imports were significant. We had the roollling blackouts during the heat wave because the other States were also in the heat wave and could not supply what PG&E needed. Clearly PG&E needs more capacity and if it wants do install more Solar, it needs to also install Storage
 
Thanks for starting this thread, @getakey!

CAISO released their absolutely maddening Root Cause Analysis (RCA) for the August 2020 outages
http://www.caiso.com/Documents/Preliminary-Root-Cause-Analysis-Rotating-Outages-August-2020.pdf.

It's a long and mostly political (which is unfortunate) document that blames 1) climate change induced "extreme heat storm", 2) the renewable production issues that @getakey mentions above, and 3) energy marketplace practices that exacerbated supply challenges.

I found it a fascinating read but am calling it absolutely maddening because:
a) While the heat wave is a considerable factor there's no conversation about how the peak demand for the 2 days of the rolling outages of 47GW was lower than the peak demand of 50GW in 2017. Unless those are not apples-to-apples comparisons (which they may be if CAISO service areas changed) that's a huge gap to explain and certainly isn't "unprecedented" or "extreme" demand. It speaks to how CA has done a poor job managing capacity and spinning reserves in its transition to renewables (which have no capacity planning or spinning reserves!). Blaming climate change for these outages as the first reason seems like a convenient political scapegoat and doesn't pass the smell test.

b) The document says explicitly "The existing resource planning processes are not designed to fully address an extreme heat storm like the one experienced in mid-August" which is contradicted by their own May 20, 2020 report which states "The CAISO 2020 1-in-5 and 1-in-10 peak demand forecast are 47,775 MW and 48,457 MW" (page 3, Peak Demand Forecast). Worse, they say it in the 3rd paragraph of the executive summary! "However, if a heat wave occurs that impacts a broader area than the CAISO, the availability of surplus energy to import into the CAISO could be diminished." They absolutely knew it was possible (and even likely!) by their own analysis not 3 months before the outages but simply didn't plan for it.

c) There is no reference in the letter to Newsom about how the policies he implemented in response to COVID19 directly contributed to the outages. It's lightly discussed later in the RCA and there is even an entire analysis done by CAISO back in July which clearly shows that due to the Governor's COVID19 policies there is a net increase in demand during the summer months between 18:00 and 5:00, the peak demand time and also the time where little to no solar generation happens. While a few % change may seem inconsequential 1.05% of the load was shed during the stage 3 outages on each of those days (500MW shed out of a total demand of 47GW).

d) It's buried in the document and never called out as a specific reason but one of the major factors for the August 15, 2020 outage was the fact that CAISO erroneously told Panoche to decrease generation by 250MW! (page 37). Had this not happened likely the Stage 3 emergency would never had been declared thanks to a substantial increase (+500MW) in wind production 30 minutes later. The fact that they did not admit such a glaring error up front indicates that they haven't been up front about all of the systemic problems.
 
At this time of year imports are low, but if you look back in July/August, the imports were significant. We had the roollling blackouts during the heat wave because the other States were also in the heat wave and could not supply what PG&E needed. Clearly PG&E needs more capacity and if it wants do install more Solar, it needs to also install Storage


Even from August 15 to August 17 (the brownout days), imports didn't exceed 10k MW (sorry I left out the k in my previous post) per hour.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you there's a power problem. I just disagree that the other states can supply us much if there's a shortfall.
 
Even from August 15 to August 17 (the brownout days), imports didn't exceed 10k MW (sorry I left out the k in my previous post) per hour.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you there's a power problem. I just disagree that the other states can supply us much if there's a shortfall.

CAISO called this out in their May 20, 2020 report: "However, if a heat wave occurs that impacts a broader area than the CAISO, the availability of surplus energy to import into the CAISO could be diminished."

I'll go a step further and mention that neighboring states like OR and WA are not stellar candidates for broad solar installations given the winter climate and northern latitudes (though eastern OR and WA are fantastic for solar during the summer). Both states are heavily reliant on hydro which has been politically unpopular to expand - the Washington Clean Energy Transformation Act (CETA) passed last year actually discourages new hydro! - and even has been suggested by their respective governors that some be removed (despite it being clear that doing so would have substantial risk to the power grid).

Combine supply restrictions with ever increasing demand specifically from EVs, especially with places like CA that have moved to ban new gasoline/diesel powered vehicles by 2035, IMO CA's current electricity problem is just tip of an incredibly short-sighted west coast power crisis iceberg that even storage won't be able to fix.

If you want true carbon free energy you need a mix of solar/wind with storage plus hydro or nuclear for your base load. Swapping base load coal/NG/nuclear/hydro plants for solar/wind is disastrously stupid.
 
Even from August 15 to August 17 (the brownout days), imports didn't exceed 10k MW (sorry I left out the k in my previous post) per hour.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you there's a power problem. I just disagree that the other states can supply us much if there's a shortfall.

10K is 25% of the demand! But I agree we should not be reliant on other States