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#Calexit

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Imagine a train called progress.

Right behind the engine are cars filled with people who embrace the scientific-method and base their belief systems on rational, reason based conclusions.

Behind this are millions of cars filled with people who DENY scientific evidence and base their belief systems on an invisible man in the sky.

Consider how fast the "Train of Progress" would go if we disconnected the all the cars filled with science-deniers,

I'm voting for secession. #Calexit.

Talk about stereotyping!

I believe in science . I also believe in a God, but maybe not yours. I understand the two are not compatible in your brain, but a lot of people with a lot of science background believe in a God. As scientists, we have to admit we don't know everything, and a lot of things are theories. As a believer in God, I also see the need to say that churches, religions, believers, do not know everything, and a lot of things are theories.

Returning to secession, I would think one would have to include the entire west coast and a large part of the east coast. Reno and Las Vegas are more California than they are Arizona, NM, Utah, etc. And we're only talking four years here. The pendulum swings both ways, alla time, alla time.
 
That would be the dumbest move in the history of California.

leaving the union means they have 0% chance of shaping the future of the US, meaning things could go from bad to worse for them should they leave.

Oregon and Washington are already taking people, work, entertainment industry etc from California, seceeding would accelerate that.

Once complete the only people left would be the industries that can't move for various reasons.

Seceeding from the union because you dont like the president is like jumping ship in the middle of the ocean because you don't like the captain, its basically suicide.

But then again California is the drama capital of the world I think this is all for show.

You might have missed the Pacifica movement, in which California, Oregon, Washington & British Columbia would form a new country. It's not just California and those "drama-loving Californians". ...looks for eye roll emoji ...
 
In my view, the "dumbest move ever" is the United States walking away from the Paris Climate Accords. Walking away from sustainable energy. Electing politicians that DENY the science of climate change. Continuing to burn coal and petroleum, while proven clean technologies exist.

The scientific evidence overwhelming indicates our planet is at a tipping point. Isn't this exactly the "Point" at which we should act?
 
leaving the union means they have 0% chance of shaping the future of the US, meaning things could go from bad to worse for them should they leave.

We've been trying to shape the US future for decades. Unfortunately the issue of climate has been politicized. First the Bush admin denied California an EPA waiver to enforce our own tailpipe regulations. And now we have a President that doesn't even believe in climate change. That's enough for me.
 
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We've been trying to shape the US future for decades.
Unfrotunately the issue of climate has been politicized. First the Bush admin denied California an EPA waiver to enforce our own tailpipe regulations. And now we have a President that doesn't even believe in climate change. That's enough for me.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out ... :cool:
 
Fortunately, the President can only do so much. The worse aspect of his Presidency is his appointment(s) to the Supreme Court since that will live on past his presidency. It's a crime that Obama is unlawfully blocked from making the current appointment to replace Scalia who will have been dead for nearly one year when Trump is sworn in. That's well within Obama's elected term, Clinton wins the popular vote by well over a million votes, and Trump gets to replace Scalia? Where's the outrage over that? That's what people should protesting about but you barely even hear it mentioned. Supreme Court decisions have and will affect climate change and the make up of the Court is being stolen by one party! And how do you fight that one legally since the highest court has been made political and would be the one to rule on that issue! That's why you can't mess with the basic principles of the Constitution. The Republican party ought to be ashamed of themselves. How can that party so adamantly fight for an amendment to the constitution on the one hand, while at the same time they completely violate Article Two of the Constitution?

Oh believe me there's outrage over this. In many of the conversations I've had since the election the topic of the Supreme Court has come up. Except it isn't just the Supreme Court. Trump will get to fill a vast number of federal judge vacancies that Congress has been blocking Obama on.
 
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I know a lot of people are concerned about Perry's appointment as Secretary of Energy, yet under him Texas became the largest producer of Wind Power in the US.

Basically, for guys like Trump and Perry, money talks and the dropping cost of Wind and Solar matters far more than the Paris Agreement. As such, we'll be going green in spite of their personal beliefs.

unsubsidized solar is beginning to outcompete coal and natural gas on a larger scale, and notably, new solar projects in emerging markets are costing less to build than wind projects

...

“Renewables are robustly entering the era of undercutting” fossil fuel prices, BNEF chairman Michael Liebreich said in a note to clients this week.
 
I'm just glad that lumber must have warning stickers and gas cans must be designed to leak fuel on the ground.

I am a bit pissed California did not get the "Black Cars Illegal" passed or the "only OEM tire sizes allowed" through yet.

And it is unforgivable that grilling steaks in your backyard is still legal. We tried and failed to criminalize BBQ. "When tasty steaks are outlawed, only outlaws will have tasty steaks!"

There is a lot of work yet to be done my fellow Californians. There are still 4 people in the USA who don't think we are idiots. Never give up!
 
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McRat,
I remember (back in the 80s) when the smog would get so thick in the city of Riverside you could barely see across the street. I see you live in Norco, are you old enough to remember the smog backing up into the Inland Empire?

What a difference today?

I would love to hear your thoughts on what caused the change???
 
I'm just glad that lumber must have warning stickers and gas cans must be designed to leak fuel on the ground.

I am a bit pissed California did not get the "Black Cars Illegal" passed or the "only OEM tire sizes allowed" through yet.

And it is unforgivable that grilling steaks in your backyard is still legal. We tried and failed to criminalize BBQ. "When tasty steaks are outlawed, only outlaws will have tasty steaks!"

There is a lot of work yet to be done my fellow Californians. There are still 4 people in the USA who don't think we are idiots. Never give up!

I know what you are saying. The only thing worse than the over the top California environmental protection BS is pissing away the planet against the evidence of science and at the expense of all future generations.

Seriously, I think some of the things environmental advocates and liberals try to do is over the top. I really do. But compare it to the opposite side. The big difference, one that cannot be overstated, is that the environmental and liberal snowflakes are trying to be responsible and do the right, honorable thing. That matters. It matters a lot.
 
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I'm just glad that lumber must have warning stickers and gas cans must be designed to leak fuel on the ground.

I am a bit pissed California did not get the "Black Cars Illegal" passed or the "only OEM tire sizes allowed" through yet.

And it is unforgivable that grilling steaks in your backyard is still legal. We tried and failed to criminalize BBQ. "When tasty steaks are outlawed, only outlaws will have tasty steaks!"

There is a lot of work yet to be done my fellow Californians. There are still 4 people in the USA who don't think we are idiots. Never give up!

Spoken like your Dear Leader. No susbstance, just fluff.
 
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McRat,
I remember (back in the 80s) when the smog would get so thick in the city of Riverside you could barely see across the street. I see you live in Norco, are you old enough to remember the smog backing up into the Inland Empire?

What a difference today?

I would love to hear your thoughts on what caused the change???
Love is a pretty strange emotion to describe my rants, but here goes. We could not play outside at recess or lunch on smog days, and we had Civil Defense Drills to duck and cover, so I suppose I'm old enough. My love with automotive technology started in the 1960's.

The Inland Empire smog issue was LA and geography. It wasn't until the air actually was deadly in LA from a few summer inversions before "California" did anything. Reagan signed the first serious California-specific legislation into law roughly the same time the Federal government took action. We have 2 centers of political action, LA and SF. Nearly all legislation is done to assist those regions. Reagan was part of that game.

Corona had less than 20k people and was citrus and dairy back then. But the fact that LA/Orange counties were coastal cities, and Corona/Riverside are in the valley leading to the inland deserts creates a daily breeze the cleans the sewer that is LA by flushing it down the Inland Empire. Not sure where SF's toilet is, I never studied their ecosystem. But you can bet it has one. The large metro areas were far cleaner than the outlands.

Scientists and engineers helped clean the air with 2 very important discoveries, the catalytic converter, and digital fuel injection, but only after LA City had issues. Transistorized fuel injection and catalytic converters were invented in the 1950's. As long as the smog problem did not affect LA severely, no attempt was made to use that technology. So yes, I remember the IE being LA's toilet.

There is pragmatic environmental safety, and there is silliness to keep the bureaucracy alive. Californians love bureaucracy. It means we are doing something, not just talking about it. Wood might be a carcinogen, but WTF is a warning sticker going to do about it. Really? The "self-closing" gas cans increase air pollution in actual use since they block your ability to stop dispensing in an orderly manner. And the self closing feature is not as air tight as real lids are either. Black cars are not a big threat either. Or are aftermarket wheels. Heck, Tesla ships cars with them pre-installed. Personally, I find them dumb, but I'm not chewing the air because of 21" wheels. And backyard BBQ's were never proven to be a significant source of pollution in California. Burning wood for heating or cooking was a larger issue as was leaking propane during the fill cycle.
 
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McRat,

Is it your point, that it was Reagan, scientists and engineers that pragmatically improved the air quality of the LA basin?

I myself, have been laboring under the "delusion" that it was long term (year after year, decade after decade) of progressive California legislative and regulatory reforms, centered on improving gas mileage and vehicle emissions. Reforms, that have led the entire industry and world.

Just my opinion.
 
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