California AB 1745 -- "Clean Cars 2040 Act"

[ecarfan]

This argument boils down to trust in government. I support this bill, because I trust our government, warts and all, to take the broad view and protect society as a whole against the selfish decisions of individuals. I am so proud to be a Californian.

That is indeed one of the critical functions of responsible governance and AB-1745 would be a positive step on the path to transitioning to an economy built on sustainable energy, which is critical if humans are to continue to inhabit Earth. Individual consumers rarely make purchase decisions based on the long view nor do they factor in the unpriced externalities; they typically think a few years out at most. It is the job of responsible legislators to take the long view. AB-1745 is certainly an example of that and I support it. I am glad I live in a state where there is a real chance of such a bill becoming law.

 

[mspohr]

Your article also states that Texas has created half of all private sector jobs. More jobs equals more property/income tax, more payroll tax, more sales tax, more revenue altogether.

Texas paid for the F1 racing commission fee of $25 million to host the race at the Austin track. The City of Austin (overwhelmingly democratic if it matters) Chamber of Commerce estimated the economic impact of the event at $597 million. Just the state sales tax alone is $49million plus hotel tax, and income/payroll tax paid on all of that. The special events funding the State provides was the deciding factor in building the track in Texas If not the builders planned a track in New Jersey. So it seems that a 25mil investment paid 20X to economy and more than paid for the tax revenue.
Look at Cali debt vs Texas and tell me whose model works better.

So spending taxpayer money to benefit corporations is OK. ( But not OK when it benefits taxpayers.)

 

[LCR1]

So spending taxpayer money to benefit corporations is OK. ( But not OK when it benefits taxpayers.)

Not sure where you got lost, it benefited the tax payers.

 

[mspohr]

Not sure where you got lost, it benefited the tax payers.

The projects you cited all benefited corporations.

 

[ohmman]

Saving $15B+ a year for a very low cost program also seems to have a nice ROI.

 

[mspohr]

Back on topic

Diesel car ban approved for German cities
German cities will be allowed to ban older diesel vehicles from some areas following a landmark court ruling.

Diesels are sacred to the German auto industry.
This is big.

 

[LCR1]

The projects you cited all benefited corporations.

So the $50 million in tax revenue didn't benefit anyone?
The 1,700 jobs dont benefit anyone?
The $1.8 million paid in property taxes don't benefit anyone?
The almost $600 million injected into the local economy over a single weekend benefited no one?
All the jobs like hotels and restaurants which were needed to transact that $600 million didn't benefit?

Perhaps you should write a letter to those workers employed by the facility and the local businesses that cater to the tourists they didn't benefit and the money in their pockets is a figment of their imaginations, because you know, only corporations benefited. In everything listed the taxpayers benefited.

 

[mspohr]

So the $50 million in tax revenue didn't benefit anyone?
The 1,700 jobs dont benefit anyone?
The $1.8 million paid in property taxes don't benefit anyone?
The almost $600 million injected into the local economy over a single weekend benefited no one?
All the jobs like hotels and restaurants which were needed to transact that $600 million didn't benefit?

Perhaps you should write a letter to those workers employed by the facility and the local businesses that cater to the tourists they didn't benefit and the money in their pockets is a figment of their imaginations, because you know, only corporations benefited. In everything listed the taxpayers benefited.

Trickle down economics is a scam to confuse the gullible.
Best leave this off topic

 

[ecarfan]

Moderator note: I’ve temporarily locked this thread to let things cool down.

 

[ecarfan]

Moderator note: thread is now unlocked, please confine the discussion to the proposed California bill and matters directly relating to it. Thank you.

 

[cpa]

That is indeed one of the critical functions of responsible governance and AB-1745 would be a positive step on the path to transitioning to an economy built on sustainable energy, which is critical if humans are to continue to inhabit Earth. Individual consumers rarely make purchase decisions based on the long view nor do they factor in the unpriced externalities; they typically think a few years out at most. It is the job of responsible legislators to take the long view. AB-1745 is certainly an example of that and I support it. I am glad I live in a state where there is a real chance of such a bill becoming law.

Fan, if I may so bold as to augment your comment: "That is indeed one of the critical functions of responsible governance and AB-1745 . . .which is critical if humans and other life forms are to continue to inhabit Earth."

Thank you!

 

[LCR1]

Fan, if I may so bold as to augment your comment: "That is indeed one of the critical functions of responsible governance and AB-1745 . . .which is critical if humans and other life forms are to continue to inhabit Earth."

Thank you!

Not how that works, at all.

 

[mspohr]

Rome is banning diesel cars

Seems to be a pattern here.

 

[mspohr]

UK car industry must pay up for toxic air 'catastrophe', super-inquiry finds
UK car industry must pay up for toxic air 'catastrophe', super-inquiry finds

MP inquiry recommends banning new petrol and Diesel cars by 2032.
Also auto manufacturers must pay.
“There are 6.5m dirty diesel cars and vans on the UK’s roads that spew toxic fumes with no effective controls,” said Greg Archer, clean vehicles director at campaign group Transport & Environment. “It is time the car industry either cleans up the emissions or pays up for others to do so. It is shameful that in the UK the industry is allowed to do nothing.”
The UK government has set 2040 as the date for the end of diesel and petrol car sales, but the devolved government in Scotland has pledged to do so by 2032. The Netherlands will prohibit internal combustion engine cars by 2030 and India is considering the same date. “People who live in the UK deserve clean air just as much,” said Rogers.

 

[suraj1194]

Ok, lets take away seatbelts, airbags, ABS braking, side mirrors, crumple zones, collapsable steering wheels, head restraints, emissions controls, catalytic converters, diesel emissions fluid, mufflers, safety glass, bumpers, backup cameras, collision avoidance systems etc. Let's let people choose instead. There are some wonderfully unsafe, highly polluting cars in India if you looking for a deal.

Not the best analogy. Indian emissions standards have required Bharat Stage 3 (~ Euro Stage 3) emissions standards nationwide since 2010, and Stage 4 norms for all sales in big cities since the same time. In 2017 it was upped to Stage 4 norms nationwide. In other words, India is merely ~10 years behind European emissions standards, hardly terrible. It will skip Stage 5 and go to nationwide Stage 6 norms (parity with Europe) on all sales starting 2020.

The stories of smog you read about in India, particularly Delhi, are driven by hay burning in the vast nearby farming regions of Punjab, and occurs during winter, when the city has always had thick fog. That's why those apocalyptic stories show up in Nov/Dec each year. Delhi in fact has no gas/diesel public transport - their entire fleet of public buses (10,000+ of them), cabs and autorickshaws (a.k.a tuk tuks) have been running CNG since 2000, due to a landmark Supreme Court order.

Delhi also has one of the world's fastest growing mass transit systems - opened in 2002, currently 250km (~160 miles) and 1 billion pax/year, due to increase in 2018 to 400+km (exceeding NYC and London subway systems in length), and to a further 550+km in 2021-22. Going from 0 to a ~340 mile mass transit network in 20 years is a big deal. It's not a rickety old system but a modern one - way better than BART . Mumbai has had a 300+ mile suburban rail network transporting about 3 billion pax/year (2nd busiest in the world after Tokyo) for decades, and Calcutta/Kolkata has the 3rd busiest system.

 

[ohmman]

Update: Ting pulled AB1745 and will reintroduce next year. I don't think Frasier was going to get behind it and he wants to build support before the reintroduction. The goal is to be more aggressive with timeframe next go-around.