California bans per-minute billing; Tesla Superchargers will need displays

[FlatSix911]

Electric vehicle charging stations to look more like gas pumps

On December 16, 2019, California’s Office of Administrative Law approved amendments to its Electric Vehicle Fueling Systems Specifications. Effective January 1, 2020, these new rules ban operators of electric vehicle charging stations from billing by the minute.This is a huge blow to Electrify America and EVgo. Both firms bill by the minute for EV charging, leaving drivers with sticker shock and feeling ripped off by the end of the session. Chargepoint will also be negatively affected, as many of their site-host partners choose to bill per minute. And while Tesla already bills by the kilowatt-hour, California will also be requiring charging stations to physically display “on their face” important information about electricity cost and delivery, a move that will put the most burden on Tesla’s Supercharger stations.

The new rule requires that charging stations (Electric Vehicle Service Equipment, or “EVSEs”) have a “primary indicating element” directly “on the face” of the station. This display will show the EVSE’s kWh capacity, price per kWh, and a running meter of kWh delivered. A lot like gasoline pumps already do. This rule will only apply to new Level 2 chargers deployed 2021 onwards, and DCFC chargers deployed 2023 onwards. But as of 2031 for Level 2 and 2033 for DCFC, all EVSEs in the state must comply with the rule, no more grand-fathered exceptions.

California bans per-minute billing; Tesla Superchargers will need displays - Electrek

 

[pilotSteve]

Well it will make the pricing more transparent and "fuel pump" comparable. I think long term it must go that way anyhow.

 

[msm859]

I would think Tesla could easily add this feature to its App. It then should not be too hard to get the law amended to allow an exception for chargers with that ability.

 

[Cyber_Dav]

I would think Tesla could easily add this feature to its App. It then should not be too hard to get the law amended to allow an exception for chargers with that ability.

But it should also be easy to make DCFC chargers compliant in three years, so why seek an exception?

I don't like new regulations, but this one will be helpful for consumers.

I can still remember when gas stations were first required to post prices so they were visible from the street, something we all take for granted now.

 

[SageBrush]

Oh goody -- something for the vandals to target.
Would someone please tell these idiot regulators that all the information they seek is already displayed in the car ?

 

[FlatSix911]

I would think Tesla could easily add this feature to its App. It then should not be too hard to get the law amended to allow an exception for chargers with that ability.

Highly Doubtful… the article states that California regulators have already rejected the idea of an in-car app.

 

[SageBrush]

I suppose this means that CA gets its Superchargers before 2023

 

[ellett]

No retrofits required until 2031, and not required on new chargers for three years.

And adding an LED display area should be straightforware without changing the overall "Tesla" look of the Supercharger.

Rate per kW
Charging miles per hour
Current range
Total cost

This is pretty much a non-issue, just so long as they don't have to add a paper receipt

 

[FlatSix911]

Well it will make the pricing more transparent and "fuel pump" comparable. I think long term it must go that way anyhow.

I agree that overall this will be a solid improvement for customers.
Private network operators like Electrify America and EVgo have offered poor value and high rates to other EV owners.

 

[cpa]

This proposal would really have some teeth if the display showed "BROKEN" instead of the price when the stall was out of order.

 

[jerry33]

The idea of charging by kWh is a good one. But it seems to me that since only Teslas can use a Supercharger, and because every Tesla has a display, the requirement is already met, although it might need some programming to show the rate prior to arrival and an "accept/decline" button.

 

[drtimhill]

The new rule requires that charging stations (Electric Vehicle Service Equipment, or “EVSEs”) have a “primary indicating element” directly “on the face” of the station.

I wonder if Tesla could argue that "the station" is partly located in the car itself (since that's already where much of the smarts are .. the car is really telling the SC how much current it wants etc). In that case you could argue the in-car display is ALREADY the "primary indicating element", and all they need to do is add actual $$ cost on the screen as you change.

Rather stupid law in that they specify the MEANS (display on pump) rather than the ENDS (clearly letting consumer know the fees). However, I agree with moving away from per-minute charging, which is a rip-off.

 

[drtimhill]

The new rule requires that charging stations (Electric Vehicle Service Equipment, or “EVSEs”) have a “primary indicating element” directly “on the face” of the station.

I wonder if Tesla could argue that "the station" is partly located in the car itself (since that's already where much of the smarts are .. the car is really telling the SC how much current it wants etc). In that case you could argue the in-car display is ALREADY the "primary indicating element", and all they need to do is add actual $$ cost on the screen as you change.

Rather stupid law in that they specify the MEANS (display on pump) rather than the ENDS (clearly letting consumer know the fees). However, I agree with moving away from per-minute charging, which is a rip-off.

 

[SageBrush]

Rather stupid law in that they specify the MEANS (display on pump) rather than the ENDS (clearly letting consumer know the fees). However, I agree with moving away from per-minute charging, which is a rip-off.

The vendors need a way to recoup demand charges or the result will be no build-out of high power chargers.
Eventually attached batteries will solve the demand fee problem, but that is some ways into the future.

 

[drtimhill]

The new rule requires that charging stations (Electric Vehicle Service Equipment, or “EVSEs”) have a “primary indicating element” directly “on the face” of the station.

I wonder if Tesla could argue that "the charing station" is partly located in the car itself (since that's already where much of the smarts are .. the car is really telling the SC how much current it wants etc). In that case you could argue the in-car display is ALREADY the "primary indicating element", and all they need to do is add actual $$ cost on the screen as you change.

Rather stupid law (imho) in that they specify the MEANS (display on pump) rather than the ENDS (clearly letting consumer know the fees). However, I agree with moving away from per-minute charging, which is a rip-off.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I wonder if Tesla could argue that "the station" is partly located in the car itself (since that's already where much of the smarts are .. the car is really telling the SC how much current it wants etc). In that case you could argue the in-car display is ALREADY the "primary indicating element", and all they need to do is add actual $$ cost on the screen as you change.

Rather stupid law in that they specify the MEANS (display on pump) rather than the ENDS (clearly letting consumer know the fees). However, I agree with moving away from per-minute charging, which is a rip-off.

I wonder if Tesla could argue that "the station" is partly located in the car itself (since that's already where much of the smarts are .. the car is really telling the SC how much current it wants etc). In that case you could argue the in-car display is ALREADY the "primary indicating element", and all they need to do is add actual $$ cost on the screen as you change.

Rather stupid law in that they specify the MEANS (display on pump) rather than the ENDS (clearly letting consumer know the fees). However, I agree with moving away from per-minute charging, which is a rip-off.

I wonder if Tesla could argue that "the charing station" is partly located in the car itself (since that's already where much of the smarts are .. the car is really telling the SC how much current it wants etc). In that case you could argue the in-car display is ALREADY the "primary indicating element", and all they need to do is add actual $$ cost on the screen as you change.

Rather stupid law (imho) in that they specify the MEANS (display on pump) rather than the ENDS (clearly letting consumer know the fees). However, I agree with moving away from per-minute charging, which is a rip-off.

Is there some specific reason you felt the need to post that three times?

 

[apacheguy]

Well it will make the pricing more transparent and "fuel pump" comparable. I think long term it must go that way anyhow.

How so? I can easily see the kWh delivered and price on my touchscreen. How will having that same information on the stall make it more transparent?

 

[pilotSteve]

How so? I can easily see the kWh delivered and price on my touchscreen. How will having that same information on the stall make it more transparent?

... only if somebody is used to paying $40 for a "tank" of gasoline and then compares that to $20 (or whatever) comes up in casual conversation with friends so they more easily understand EV operating cost advantage.

 

[drtimhill]

Is there some specific reason you felt the need to post that three times?

The web site was acting up earlier .. said "post failure" so I re-posted, whereas clearly it DID post despite the error message. My apologies to all for the noise.

 

[drtimhill]

The vendors need a way to recoup demand charges or the result will be no build-out of high power chargers.
Eventually attached batteries will solve the demand fee problem, but that is some ways into the future.

Which is fine, but why per-minute? Why not per-kilowatt? After all, that's how gas stations work, you pay per gallon, not how long you use the pump for.