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California bans small gas engines including gas generators

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,104
679
auburn, ca
Then let's summarize: you hate socialism and socialists in others ... but you love being a socialist exploiting socialism.
I don't really expect people to reason, but you are FOS.

You do make me wonder though, in what way(s) do you find hypocrisy a positive attribute to be proud of ? Do you encourage it in your children ? Ask your priest to praise its virtues ? Vote for the most hypocritical politician ?
Thanks for the compliment
 

RSpanner

Member
Sep 3, 2021
116
97
Oregon
Well, the weaning from fossil fuels can't and should not happen over night. It should happen concurently with the introduction of alternatives ( better batteries, solar enginering, etc, etc. Anachronistic viewpoints and lifestyles are, at this point, dangerous.
 
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MontyFloyd

Member
Aug 9, 2021
359
222
Houston
I have a gas powered lawn mower. I drive Ice cars. I have a propane 22kw generator. Gas chain saw. gas weeder. IMO, this green focus is just over the top! Luckily I will be dead when folks may have to pay the price. Here I am in Calif, and we cannot even keep the lights on, and we want to force adding TONS more electrical needs. And who is going to pay, since we already pay the highest fuel costs in the nation.

If folks are SO happy with socialism, there are countries who would love to have you.

I just watched a Youtube of a teenager who just got a passpost out of North Korea. She had never seen a mattress. Or more than 1 room in a house, where 8 slept. Had never seen a bathroom. Her comment is folks who live in the US have NO idea what they have and how lucky they are!!!!
I see where you are coming from.
I am not against ICE per se (like that 22kw Gen is perfectly good).

So the topic:
No one is forcing you to buy electric tools, let alone immediately.
My understanding of Calif order is:
1. Will be a few years (2026?) before it goes in effect
2. Bans sale of ICE tools in Cali
3. You can keep your old ICE tools.

Does not seem to prevent ordering one from another state (and will be same cost as any online order), or even traveling to another state to buy one.


And note: A law or ruling banning a device is not Socialism, Communism, or even Capitalism, or any kind of -ism.
Asbestos was banned because it caused lung cancer.
Leaded gas was banned because it made people sick.
Many rules were written simply for safety.
And and don't forget during WW2 the US Government imposed very strict fuel rationing to 4 gallons a week. Yes, it is perfectly acceptable and legal for the US government to limit how many gallons of gas you can buy. Again, not Communism, its US Law and fully Constitutional.

And let me clarify: I did not buy electric because I wanted to, it just happened.
The lawn tools were from my parents and years old, and the lawn mower was used and cheaper than any gas (I did have gas in past). I found it was much cleaner and more convenient to stay electrical (now if I had a 1 acer lot, then I would have gas).
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,104
679
auburn, ca
I see where you are coming from.
I am not against ICE per se (like that 22kw Gen is perfectly good).

So the topic:
No one is forcing you to buy electric tools, let alone immediately.
My understanding of Calif order is:
1. Will be a few years (2026?) before it goes in effect
2. Bans sale of ICE tools in Cali
3. You can keep your old ICE tools.

Does not seem to prevent ordering one from another state (and will be same cost as any online order), or even traveling to another state to buy one.


And note: A law or ruling banning a device is not Socialism, Communism, or even Capitalism, or any kind of -ism.
Asbestos was banned because it caused lung cancer.
Leaded gas was banned because it made people sick.
Many rules were written simply for safety.
And and don't forget during WW2 the US Government imposed very strict fuel rationing to 4 gallons a week. Yes, it is perfectly acceptable and legal for the US government to limit how many gallons of gas you can buy. Again, not Communism, its US Law and fully Constitutional.

And let me clarify: I did not buy electric because I wanted to, it just happened.
The lawn tools were from my parents and years old, and the lawn mower was used and cheaper than any gas (I did have gas in past). I found it was much cleaner and more convenient to stay electrical (now if I had a 1 acer lot, then I would have gas).
Great it works for you, just do not try and shove it down my throat. And as posted if anyone thinks making this stuff is "green",........

I have zero desire to have things I have to worry about charging the battery!! Why, as an example, I have mechanical stuff on my bike rather than electric. I want as simple as possible. Let the market decide. Get rid of all the free stuff. Make me a better mouse trap and I might change. But unless someone gives me, as an example, an EV for 100% free, I have ZERO desire to own one with all its limitations! I think of all those folks that were trying to get out of the fires here a few years ago. I can just image that some would die because their car ran out of suds trying to get out.

I do not judge others, but I get tired of some trying to judge me
 

MontyFloyd

Member
Aug 9, 2021
359
222
Houston
Not to mention it would require 10-12 batteries to do his daily routine
How do you know that? Test it out?
Given the price of gasoline and oil in CA is nearly 2x the rest of USA, there is a possibility it would be less costly to operate with electric.

Lets look at tools that are less frequently used for general lawn companies like bush trimmers and tree pruners.
Tree pruners: Electric versions are much less expensive than gas ones.
Bush trimmers: Electric less than 1/2 price of gas versions.
Results: Less expensive equipment, could get another battery or 2, charge via trucks (some have 12V chargers)

So above tools can easily be electric and save money both in purchase and operation.

Weed trimmer:
Yes, starting to show limits of electric. There is good models, but run time limited and charge time long (Hello, Elon?)
Depends on clients.

Blowers:
Advantage ICE, but E models are viable depending on location.

Lawn mower:
Yeah, not going to even try. Unless Tesla, Rivian, or someone with EV chops puts mind to it, its gonna be ICE.
 

MontyFloyd

Member
Aug 9, 2021
359
222
Houston
Well, the weaning from fossil fuels can't and should not happen over night
As of right now, IT CAN.
Switching everting will take time, but can happen within 5 years if everyone tries (Went to moon in 6 years)

I can go to Lowes, get electric weeders, blowers, trimmers, mowers, water heaters, ovens, ranges, and Tiki torches (that look very real).
(and use wood briquets for grill cooking)

All the pieces are here.
 

thx1139

Active Member
Aug 1, 2014
1,362
5,313
Lemont, IL
From 2028. And the law allows the responsible state agency to delay that rule.

In other words, the law effectively give the agency the power to introduce a ban on new gasoline generator from 2028 onwards.

They have 6 years to add more renewables and utility-scale battery systems, plus the market has 6 years to add more solar and battery products before they have to make a decision on banning them.
You post this and it just gets ignored. Disappointing
 
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nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
8,475
11,688
United States
As of right now, IT CAN.
Switching everting will take time, but can happen within 5 years if everyone tries (Went to moon in 6 years)

I can go to Lowes, get electric weeders, blowers, trimmers, mowers, water heaters, ovens, ranges, and Tiki torches (that look very real).
(and use wood briquets for grill cooking)

All the pieces are here.

Someone asked me last week when I thought we would be 100% electric. My response was that it's 110% up to the fat slobs still addicted to fools fuel. Ramping up for WW2 was FAR more difficult with no pay back. If we chose as a society to kick this pathetic addiction in 5 years I have no doubt it would be FAR... FAAAR easier than what our grand parents did 80 years ago. We just lack the desire. We're CHOOSING to screw over future generations and it's truly pathetic.
 

ThomasD

Active Member
Nov 22, 2019
1,284
636
Breckenridge Co Ky
New Solar farm in CA. Doesn't say how much battery backup will be needed

The $550 million Crimson Solar Project will be sited on 2,000 acres of federal land west of Blythe, California, the Interior Department said in a statement. It is being developed by Canadian Solar (CSIQ.O) unit Recurrent Energy and will deliver power to California utility Southern California Edison.

The announcement comes as President Joe Biden has vowed to expand development of renewable energy projects on public lands as part of a broader agenda to fight climate change, create jobs and reverse former President Donald Trump's emphasis on maximizing fossil fuel extraction.

"Projects like this can help to make America a global leader in the clean energy economy through the acceleration of responsible renewable energy development on public lands," Interior Secretary Deb Haaland said in the statement.

Report ad
Crimson Solar will create 650 construction jobs but just 10 permanent and 40 temporary jobs in operations and maintenance for the 30-year life of the project, the statement said.

The project will include a battery storage system and will be sited on land designated for renewable energy development by the Desert Renewable Energy Conservation Plan, an agreement hatched between the state of California and the Obama administration that set aside areas for wind and solar projects.

Reporting by Nichola Groom; editing by David Evans
Our Standards: The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
 

RSpanner

Member
Sep 3, 2021
116
97
Oregon
There are many many companies working on everything from EV's and battery technology to solar power and all forms or transportation, home building and the list goes on and on. Alternatives to fossil fuels are now funded by countries and many conglomerates who formally were invested in Oil and gas.
Here is a site that focuses on mostly vehicles and battery tech, but does go into other areas that are leaving the fossil fuel world.

just one example> British Petroleum
 
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cali8484

Member
Jul 8, 2018
286
171
California
It seems the law would have greater negative impact on disadvantaged communities. It's clear that clean tech is available for many things now but often at much higher cost compared to traditional options. Government can't provide enough consumer subsidies to work around this fundamental issue. Home solar and EV adoption in disadvantaged communities is lower than others not because they don't want them but because they simply can't afford them even with the available government subsidies. The fact is that cost for clean tech has not fallen as fast as many have projected and that's what the government should focus on fixing. For broader and more equitable clean tech adoption, perhaps the government should push the clean tech vendors to provide more lower cost/simpler to deploy/lower profit models rather than higher cost/more complex/higher profit models. For example, solar installed cost reduction seems to have slowed significantly in recent times. I would rather see government and vendor collaboration to achieve $1/watt solar installed cost than more government subsidies for consumers and more vendor resources for developing high cost products.
 

RSpanner

Member
Sep 3, 2021
116
97
Oregon
cali8484 makes some valid and good points>

" I would rather see government and vendor collaboration to achieve $1/watt solar installed cost than more government subsidies for consumers and more vendor resources for developing high cost products."
."It seems the law would have greater negative impact on disadvantaged communities."

In all honesty I still want the subsidies for myself..Ha....and I probably don't need them, shame on me....
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,784
17,027
New Mexico
Subsidies are prey to exploitation and corruption (not to mention hypocrisy), as h20fun so amply demonstrates.
This is why I support getting rid of all of them and taxing carbon instead.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
11,055
8,867
Maine
Obviously you need to adjust their numbers. When they said 20c/kWh for electricity, I thought "You're talking about Caliornia."
It seems the law would have greater negative impact on disadvantaged communities. It's clear that clean tech is available for many things now but often at much higher cost compared to traditional options. Government can't provide enough consumer subsidies to work around this fundamental issue. Home solar and EV adoption in disadvantaged communities is lower than others not because they don't want them but because they simply can't afford them even with the available government subsidies. The fact is that cost for clean tech has not fallen as fast as many have projected and that's what the government should focus on fixing. For broader and more equitable clean tech adoption, perhaps the government should push the clean tech vendors to provide more lower cost/simpler to deploy/lower profit models rather than higher cost/more complex/higher profit models. For example, solar installed cost reduction seems to have slowed significantly in recent times. I would rather see government and vendor collaboration to achieve $1/watt solar installed cost than more government subsidies for consumers and more vendor resources for developing high cost products.

Disadvantaged communities?!
I doubt disadvantaged communities have large yards which they spend a lot of money on so they can keep a pristine lawn exposed.

The cheapest mowers and weed whackers are corded electric. That's why I have those instead of battery-powered ones.
 
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