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California DMV complaint over Tesla Autopilot/FSD

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Tesla says they will mount a defense...
It's just predictable since Tesla just got a win from the German court that ruled in its favor: Tesla can use those names since it clearly has a disclosure that "The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."

That means the German court could say it's legal to sell a "tuna sandwich" with no tuna in it (Subway lawsuit cited above) as long as it has such a disclosure.

That sounds like it's fine to run a Ponzi scheme as long as there's a disclosure that "Only early investors would get some profits. The longer you wait to join, the lesser chance or no chance you would get any profit."

Or it's perfectly fine to sell a Fully Cured Treatment for Covid-19 with malria drug (the one President Trump said he took preventively before he actually got Covid-19) as long as there's a disclosure that "This Fully Cured Treatment for Covid-19 doesn't cure nor treat Covid-19."
 
That means the German court could say it's legal to sell a "tuna sandwich" with no tuna in it (Subway lawsuit cited above) as long as it has such a disclosure.
You are confusing a description with a product name. "Grape Nuts" cereal does not contain grapes. Microsoft Windows does not contain any glass. I'm not saying Autopilot is a good name, but it IS a product name. And, for that matter, if California win Boeing et al will have to change the name of Autopilot in airplanes.
 
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You are confusing a description with a product name. "Grape Nuts" cereal does not contain grapes. Microsoft Windows does not contain any glass. I'm not saying Autopilot is a good name, but it IS a product name. And, for that matter, if California win Boeing et al will have to change the name of Autopilot in airplanes.
I understand completely that "Grape Nuts" has the rights to have no grapes not nuts and that's why I listed a numbers of examples.

I am in complete agreement with you on that.

The German court also agreed.

The US court also ruled that Swiss cheese doesn't have to come from Swiss: perfectly fine and legal to come from the U.S.

So what's the problem?

Not everyone agrees so that is the issue.

The DMV does not.

The Swiss does not. It claims " "AOP" or "Appellation d'Origine Protégée" (Protected Designation of Origin)
 
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I’m not exactly sure how it used to be sold and marketed, but the impression I was under based on what Tesla said (not Elon nor other people)

Below is a copy from the order web page (dated 3/20/2018) when I configured my 2018 MS as a lease. Here are the EAP and FSD options available and associated wording:

=========================================
Enhanced Autopilot

Enhanced Autopilot adds new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. The enhancements include going from one to four cameras for greater accuracy, redundancy, and to see fast-approaching vehicles in adjacent lanes. In addition, 12 ultrasonic sonar sensors provide 360 degree coverage around your car with almost twice the range and resolution of the prior version.

The significantly increased sensor information is processed by a computer that is over 40 times more powerful than before. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage. That said, Enhanced Autopilot should still be considered a driver's assistance feature with the driver responsible for remaining in control of the car at all times.

Tesla’s Enhanced Autopilot software has begun rolling out and features will continue to be introduced as validation is completed, subject to regulatory approval.

$82 /mo.

$6,000 upgrade after delivery

Full Self-Driving Capability

This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.

$49 /mo.

$4,000 after delivery Requires Enhanced Autopilot

=====================================

What stands out to me is the highlighted sentence that basically implies that software had already been written. It just needed extensive testing and approval. That is very misleading in my opinion. We are now more than 4 years later, and it still cant do everything listed above, and what it can do it does poorly.
 
Below is a copy from the order web page (dated 3/20/2018) when I configured my 2018 MS as a lease. Here are the EAP and FSD options available and associated wording:

=========================================
Enhanced Autopilot

Enhanced Autopilot adds new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. The enhancements include going from one to four cameras for greater accuracy, redundancy, and to see fast-approaching vehicles in adjacent lanes. In addition, 12 ultrasonic sonar sensors provide 360 degree coverage around your car with almost twice the range and resolution of the prior version.

The significantly increased sensor information is processed by a computer that is over 40 times more powerful than before. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage. That said, Enhanced Autopilot should still be considered a driver's assistance feature with the driver responsible for remaining in control of the car at all times.

Tesla’s Enhanced Autopilot software has begun rolling out and features will continue to be introduced as validation is completed, subject to regulatory approval.

$82 /mo.

$6,000 upgrade after delivery

Full Self-Driving Capability

This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.

$49 /mo.

$4,000 after delivery Requires Enhanced Autopilot

=====================================

What stands out to me is the highlighted sentence that basically implies that software had already been written. It just needed extensive testing and approval. That is very misleading in my opinion. We are now more than 4 years later, and it still cant do everything listed above, and what it can do it does poorly.
That’s really interesting. Thank you for providing that info.

I know the type of person who would write something like that but not actually be “done-done” as they sometimes put it. I work with a bunch of them.

There are two types of software developers I work with. One kind says they’re done as soon as they finish throwing some code at the wall that might work (before verifying it even compiles much less runs). After that they “just need to validate”. However, there’s a 90% chance the code won’t even start, much less work for happy path, much less gracefully work for the majority of intended scenarios. Management likes them because they get to say “we’re almost done” very early in the schedule, and the extended verification time is apparently no big deal (despite it containing a lot of the actual coding taking place to fix everything).

Then there are people that say they’re almost done when they’ve already verified most of the functionality already works, and they just need to cover a few more test cases and document everything. That’s how I report my progress. I don’t report “almost done,” “almost done-done,” and “almost done-done for realsies this time.”
 
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CA Legislators are not waiting for the DMV. They just passed the bill and awaiting for the Governor to sign into law.

GREAT first step.

I'd like to think that my efforts here on this board have assisted in this effort. (But admittedly, that might be a stretch). LOL
 
According to Gonzalez, all other automaker clearly state the limits of their driver-assist software, and it is only Tesla that claims it is “self-driving.” Apparently Gonzalez has not visited Tesla’s website as there are numerous mentions that the car is not fully autonomous and the driver is still responsible for the vehicle.

“The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous,” Tesla says on their website.
Gonzalez may also not be aware of similar claims made in Germany. Earlier this month an Intermediate Court of Appeals overturned a 2020 ruling by a Munich court that would have prevented the use of ‘Autopilot’ and ‘Full Self-Driving’ in the country.

The decision was overturned because the court ruled Tesla made it clear on their website that both are driver-assist features and the car is not fully autonomous.
 
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I dont think the Cali General assembly/Governor have to wait for a court hearing to get their law passed? Admittedly Im not familiar with Cali law. (other than they allow shoplifting up to $950 and allow street racing takeovers)
 
I dont think the Cali General assembly/Governor have to wait for a court hearing to get their law passed? Admittedly Im not familiar with Cali law...
I am not trained in the legal field but this is what I think is happening:

It's similar to the way the rules and enforcements from the CDC, OSHA, and EPA have been overruled by the Supreme Court, citing that if Congress wanted those actions, Congress should have issued those laws already.

Thus, although DMV has made rules against fraud, it's not as powerful as if it's a law in itself coming from the legislators.
 
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I don't think Tesla should fight this. Tesla should change to name to something like 'Pilotauto' and give these guys a pyrrhic victory, and perhaps that will ease some pressure they are getting on FSD beta being on the road now with 'inexperienced' drivers.
 
I don't think Tesla should fight this. Tesla should change to name to something like 'Pilotauto' and give these guys a pyrrhic victory, and perhaps that will ease some pressure they are getting on FSD beta being on the road now with 'inexperienced' drivers.
This is not the first Rodeo for Elon Musk. In many places, including California, it's illegal to own a flamethrower. He made a product name that's law compliance: He renamed the "flamethrower" as "Not-A-Flamethrower," and it was sold out in just 100 hours for a handy sum of $10 million:

 
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This is not the first Rodeo for Elon Musk. In many places, including California, it's illegal to own a flamethrower. He made a product name that's law compliance: He renamed the "flamethrower" as "Not-A-Flamethrower," and it was sold out in just 100 hours for a handy sum of $10 million:

Not-an-Autopilot sounds good to me ;)
 
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