California plant reopening
- Thread starter EROCK951!
- Start date
These "stop driving" comparisons are so..umm..naive. If I told you, that if we all stopped driving for 2 months and we will have zero auto fatalities after 2months, we will all readily agree to stop driving for 2 months
beachmiles
Member
Covid19 has only really had a month or 2 of being firmly in the wild in the US. You can't compare the yearly rates of other diseases to covid19 yet since covid19 has not been here that long. If you look at the daily average it's the leading cause of death in the US. It may not be the case for all states/cities as of now but that will be changing with states ending the lock down.
April was WAYYY worse than March and it looks like May is going to be another April.
April was WAYYY worse than March and it looks like May is going to be another April.
It's good for your family because it greatly improves their chances of surviving. It's a terrible financial and emotional strain for people who cannot go outside and people who have lost their income. But if you or your wife or one of your children died because the shelter-in-place order is lifted too early, that's forever. That's a loss you never get over. You can recover from financial hardship.
We all want to get back to normal. And our best chance of getting back to normal in the shortest time is for the decision to re-open to be based on science and for policy-makers to listen to the experts. Because if we re-open too soon we risk a second wave killing more people and delaying return to normality even longer.
The worst thing we can do right now is listen to people who think they know more than the medical professionals who have spent their lives studying public health. Beware the "argument from ignorance." That's the argument that says "I don't understand why the experts say X, so they must be wrong."
The thing is, Doctors are trained out the wazoo on medical stuff but not so much economics unless maybe they studied the overall effects of a pandemic. Economists are trained in economic stuff but not medical stuff. Certainly our economic state is very important. People have been abused and perhaps have died due to 'stay at home' not to mention when the money runs out and you are starving, you will steal to survive. So there needs to be a balance to minimize hardship and lives lost.
rxlawdude
Active Member
Sigh. It's not hard to determine where you fall on the political spectrum, and you're using it as a megaphone. This is not political, it's public health.
But I encourage people like you to go out, shake hands, lick doorknobs so you can be the guinea pigs for pandemic Wave 2.
rxlawdude
Active Member
You can't make money when you're dead.
More to the point for you and those of your mindset: Your freedom stops at the point you advocate behavior that infects others and prolongs the pandemic.
Pretty simple, no?
And both the public health experts and the economists are saying that re-opening the economy too soon would be a public health and an economic disaster. Because opening too soon will lead to a second wave which will be a double-whammy to both public health and the economy.
As hard as it is too accept, the best thing for the economy is to lick this virus, and until we have a vaccine (which several companies are working hard at) the only way to do this is distancing from each other.
The only people advocating an early re-opening of the economy are a sub-set of politicians and pundits with neither public health nor economics training but who think they know more than people who've spent a lifetime studying this stuff.
Quotes from economists? I haven't seen any.
I am not advocating infecting anyone. Go back to the title of this thread.
If we can have grocery stores and parks and drive thrus open, etc why not a much more controlled facility like a factory?
EM is not advocating for opening as before but is (of course) proposing measures to prevent the spread.
I am not advocating infecting anyone. Go back to the title of this thread.
If we can have grocery stores and parks and drive thrus open, etc why not a much more controlled facility like a factory?
EM is not advocating for opening as before but is (of course) proposing measures to prevent the spread.
With their unemployment benefits supplemented by an extra $600 a week, most of his factory employees are making about as much now as (or more than) they were making from their Tesla jobs when the factory was open. Tesla has always paid its manufacturing employees worse than other car companies. If Musk reopens the plant, Tesla will insist they come back to work, and the ones who aren't satisfied with the safety measures that are unilaterally being chosen by Tesla will likely have to choose between (I) being fired for cause and therefore loosing their unemployment benefits or (ii) working in a place that they consider unsafe, but Tesla feels is "safe enough."
Tesla (I) is hardly risk adverse, (ii) tends to cut corners, (iiii) fights safety regulators and ignores/wordsmiths safety regulations rather than complying with them, (iv) tends to ignore standard industry practices in favor of it's CEO's "we're going to do it this way unless it violates a law of physics" whims and (v) has a CEO who tends to override the judgement and suggestions of his well-trained and qualified managers. It has no worker organization to help with safety issues, and has a track record of retaliating against and publicly blasting employees who complain about safety issues.
Elon isn't advocating that the factory open exactly as before, but he is advocating that it should open in exactly the manner he decides is best. He wants to make all of the decisions, and expects to be able to force his employees to come around for the ride. Reopening the plant quickly may help Tesla's bottom line, but will cause the factory workers to loose money and/or endanger their health.
How do you know all this? Where's the substantiation?
Watch the Munroe tear down of the Y. Are you saying that musk came up with all those innovations?
If the workers don't want to work there, they don't have to. Esp if unemployment is paying them more.
Watch the Munroe tear down of the Y. Are you saying that musk came up with all those innovations?
If the workers don't want to work there, they don't have to. Esp if unemployment is paying them more.
The employees won't receive unemployment payment if Tesla fires them for not coming to work when recalled to the plant.
If Tesla gives its employees a real option of choosing not to come in (and the employees aren't afraid of retaliation from Tesla for taking that option) then a huge number of the employees will stay home. Under these circumstances it would be very hard for Tesla to reopen without offering large pay bonuses and/or hiring scabs.
ACA Man
Member
The thing I find funny is “stay at home” was sold as needed to flatten the curve. But now that the curve is flattened some people and politicians are advocating SAH until a vaccine is found. That’s moving the goal posts and it’s understandable why citizens are upset.
The curve is just now starting to flatten. End stay-at-home now and we'll see a big spike in cases, and a lot more people dying. As long as there are sick people, returning to business as usual is going to release the virus for another, possibly much larger, spread.
It's like jumping out of a plane with a parachute, and halfway down saying "The parachute slowed my descent so much that now I don't need it any more." Stay-at-home has slowed the spread. Don't cut the parachute cords yet. Stay-at-home is working. Fewer people are dying. This is a good thing.
As I keep saying, if you think you know better than people who've spent their lives studying public health, you are deluding yourself.
theganjaguru
Guru
Enjoyed the posts above. Has anyone read this?
The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation
I agree with most of what was written.
The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation
I agree with most of what was written.
rxlawdude
Active Member
theganjaguru
Guru
Trump parrot or not, the article brings up great points. Guess I’m a trump parrot for agreeing with that article. But no I don’t support trump. Something not right about this whole thing. I would be concerned if the mortality rate was higher, much higher.
This disease goes after the old and sick mainly. Yes there are instances where someone healthy gets it, but the same thing is said about the cold and flu.
Unless there is something that people aren’t being told by the powers that be, I don’t see why the sick and old should be the ones self isolating while the rest of us can go about our business. But nope, and now the middle class (like every disaster) will again evaporate more and the result in a greater divide between rich and poor.
theganjaguru
Guru
Additionally,
Why be afraid to read a counter viewpoint? I find I learn more. As long as objectivity is maintained its worth the read.
The problem with this country are all the people who base information sources off of some authoritative sources. AKA you only assimilate information from sources you agree.
Doing so puts you at a learning disadvantage and closes the mind.
I quite enjoy reading ALL of the propaganda to sort through what is true and what is false. It’s no help that the press was designed to be adversarial is just a lapdog to the powers that be.
For me it goes to that old saying, know thy enemy.
I prefer to know what all the propaganda says.
Country should open up and those with compromised or elderly should shelter. Let’s use common sense about it.
Why be afraid to read a counter viewpoint? I find I learn more. As long as objectivity is maintained its worth the read.
The problem with this country are all the people who base information sources off of some authoritative sources. AKA you only assimilate information from sources you agree.
Doing so puts you at a learning disadvantage and closes the mind.
I quite enjoy reading ALL of the propaganda to sort through what is true and what is false. It’s no help that the press was designed to be adversarial is just a lapdog to the powers that be.
For me it goes to that old saying, know thy enemy.
I prefer to know what all the propaganda says.
Country should open up and those with compromised or elderly should shelter. Let’s use common sense about it.
