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California renewable energy production with falling demand

Bill25cycle

Member
Mar 31, 2011
103
69
Nuclear power imports for the most recent available year (2018) were only 7,573 GWh, or 2.65% of CA total electric system generation.

Yup - I wonder what fraction of a percent was saved by the people inconvenienced by the rolling blackouts?

I subscribe to POWER magazine so I'd assume they'll have a summary article about it eventually.
 

mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
9,413
11,016
California
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n1tr0sp33d

Member
Jan 16, 2020
6
2
Northern CA
We have a lot of battery capacity in California from the cars sitting in our garages. Charge those unused EV's during the day and have them feed back to the grid at peak demand. I believe the main barriers to using this approach are:
Tesla, the largest supplier of EV's in CA, says vehicle-to-grid charging invalidates their warrantee.
Local utilities won't allow it.
This could be fixed with some well crafted legislation, IMHO.
(I believe that Nissan Leafs already have are allowing the VtoG connections.)

V2H would be a better start, I've got a Rav4 EV with a 41kw Tesla battery pack. Its way cheaper to buy that car than the 2 PWs I've got in;. Be nice if I can plug it into my setup as a backup to my backup...especially on those days when the smoke is thick or cloudy days. Have plenty of solar but I kept use to a minimum during blackouts and psps. But extended outages would make for a larger needs.
 

Big Dog

Active Member
Mar 7, 2016
1,567
1,557
Irvine, CA
If PG&E management had spent the money on the available power in the US grid instead of thinking about their bonuses, there would be no rolling blackouts.

The State PUC, in theory, approves PG&E's budget including incentive compensation. The Governor appoints PUC Commissioners, so the buck stops with him. (yeah, the PUC may be bought off by the state utilities, but that is on the Gov who could replace Commissioners if he so chose.)
 

Big Dog

Active Member
Mar 7, 2016
1,567
1,557
Irvine, CA
What a pedantic response. ILL - prepared is still ILL-prepared. But, that is the least of your state's self-induced trouble. Be prepared for much more.

Indeed. By definition, rolling blackouts are caused by peak power demand. But isn't the whole point a a regulated utility to generate enuf power to meet peak demand, and that includes during hot weather (which happens say, every summer)?
 

Bill25cycle

Member
Mar 31, 2011
103
69
Indeed. By definition, rolling blackouts are caused by peak power demand. But isn't the whole point a a regulated utility to generate enuf power to meet peak demand, and that includes during hot weather (which happens say, every summer)?

Yup - I'm in NY State..... Probably the SECOND worst State..... I just hope they don't copy your state's Idea of turning off all the juice just in case there is a lightning storm.... As I say - all those problems with overgrown brush could be solved with a few herds of goats cleaning the joint up.
 

iPlug

Member
Sep 14, 2019
527
754
Rocklin, CA
Yup - I'm in NY State..... Probably the SECOND worst State..... I just hope they don't copy your state's Idea of turning off all the juice just in case there is a lightning storm.... As I say - all those problems with overgrown brush could be solved with a few herds of goats cleaning the joint up.
Goats are used in ours and neighboring cities, but don't understand how they could have prevented the gas plant failure which caused our most recent power outages. Please explain.
 
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Bill25cycle

Member
Mar 31, 2011
103
69
Goats are used in ours and neighboring cities, but don't understand how they could have prevented the gas plant failure which caused our most recent power outages. Please explain.

One power plant failure should never cause an outage, even in a case of peak demand.....Reputable companies do all their planned maintenance outside of peak summertime months. But then, when ENRON was in existence, they sometimes ORDERED utilities to shut down plants to game the system and charge ridiculous spot rates.

So, while not being privy to the particulars, it sounds like a comedy of errors to me...In my State Consolidated Edison (Con Ed) in NYC basically caused both the 1965 and, what was it? the 1971 outages - that case the CEO stating ONE WEEK BEFORE that they were in the best shape ever to deal with another outage....

(The second outage was worse than the 1965 one, since other utilities got smart this time, and disconnected as soon as they saw trouble - memories of Con Ed's incompetence only being 6 years old.)..

The CEO THOUGHT he was in great shape since he had gas turbines all over the borough... Unfortunately, the 220 kv oil insulated underground cables were pressurized by OIL PUMPS running off the standard network, which incidentally failed. So they had all this emergency electricity with no where to send it since the unpressurized cables would instantly short out.

The second outage was much much longer, and since most of their powerplants at the time ran on #6 fuel oil, the boilers got cold, so the steam heaters didn't work since there was no steam, and the emergency electric heaters didn't work since there was no electricity. #6 fuel oil solidifies at room temperature in the pipe.

The big question is: Why do they pay idiot CEO's and application engineers so much money, when they obviously can't think through the simplest scenario?

I'm sure California has equally idiotic great brains.
 

Bill25cycle

Member
Mar 31, 2011
103
69
One power plant failure should never cause an outage, even in a case of peak demand.....Reputable companies do all their planned maintenance outside of peak summertime months. But then, when ENRON was in existence, they sometimes ORDERED utilities to shut down plants to game the system and charge ridiculous spot rates.

So, while not being privy to the particulars, it sounds like a comedy of errors to me...In my State Consolidated Edison (Con Ed) in NYC basically caused both the 1965 and, what was it? the 1971 outages - that case the CEO stating ONE WEEK BEFORE that they were in the best shape ever to deal with another outage....

(The second outage was worse than the 1965 one, since other utilities got smart this time, and disconnected as soon as they saw trouble - memories of Con Ed's incompetence only being 6 years old.)..

The CEO THOUGHT he was in great shape since he had gas turbines all over the borough... Unfortunately, the 220 kv oil insulated underground cables were pressurized by OIL PUMPS running off the standard network, which incidentally failed. So they had all this emergency electricity with no where to send it since the unpressurized cables would instantly short out.

The second outage was much much longer, and since most of their powerplants at the time ran on #6 fuel oil, the boilers got cold, so the steam heaters didn't work since there was no steam, and the emergency electric heaters didn't work since there was no electricity. #6 fuel oil solidifies at room temperature in the pipe.

The big question is: Why do they pay idiot CEO's and application engineers so much money, when they obviously can't think through the simplest scenario?

I'm sure California has equally idiotic great brains.

Correction: 1977 Blackout, so 12 years after the 1965 North East Blackout. Other utilities obviously had workers at the time who remembered Con Ed in 1965.
 

mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
9,413
11,016
California
One power plant failure should never cause an outage, even in a case of peak demand.....Reputable companies do all their planned maintenance outside of peak summertime months. But then, when ENRON was in existence, they sometimes ORDERED utilities to shut down plants to game the system and charge ridiculous spot rates.

So, while not being privy to the particulars, it sounds like a comedy of errors to me...In my State Consolidated Edison (Con Ed) in NYC basically caused both the 1965 and, what was it? the 1971 outages - that case the CEO stating ONE WEEK BEFORE that they were in the best shape ever to deal with another outage....

(The second outage was worse than the 1965 one, since other utilities got smart this time, and disconnected as soon as they saw trouble - memories of Con Ed's incompetence only being 6 years old.)..

The CEO THOUGHT he was in great shape since he had gas turbines all over the borough... Unfortunately, the 220 kv oil insulated underground cables were pressurized by OIL PUMPS running off the standard network, which incidentally failed. So they had all this emergency electricity with no where to send it since the unpressurized cables would instantly short out.

The second outage was much much longer, and since most of their powerplants at the time ran on #6 fuel oil, the boilers got cold, so the steam heaters didn't work since there was no steam, and the emergency electric heaters didn't work since there was no electricity. #6 fuel oil solidifies at room temperature in the pipe.

The big question is: Why do they pay idiot CEO's and application engineers so much money, when they obviously can't think through the simplest scenario?

I'm sure California has equally idiotic great brains.
Actually three NG plants went off-line. They are unreliable. Batteries are much better.
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,336
15,244
New Mexico
What a pedantic response
Not pedantic -- informed.

iPlug was pointing out to you that your comment about amount of energy saved tells you nothing about the effectiveness of the measure in addressing black-outs.

Skip the ideological BS and learn the difference between power and energy for a start. Your posts will begin to look less foolish.
 
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