California Utilities Plan All Out War On Solar, Please Read And Help

[gene]

California legislature may be voting next week on AB1139.
If you have not called your assembly =member to urge them to vote NO on AB1139, here is a link to find out the phone number and script for the call. The vote on the assembly floor can come as soon as Monday, so call your Assemblymember and call them often. Feel free to send the link to friends and family

Thank you again for your help. We still have lots of work to do over the next several months so stay tuned.

 

[Ed Hart]

I tried to reduce this proposed solution - Remote Home Solar - to a couple of slides. The Duck Curve must be addressed, meaning some compromises must be reached: by legislatures, public utility commissions, solar installers. solar equipment OEMs and homeowners. The Tesla Energy sell sheet is FAKE...just to make the needed points to the consumer. All comments welcomed.

 

[gene]

I tried to reduce this proposed solution - Remote Home Solar - to a couple of slides. The Duck Curve must be addressed, meaning some compromises must be reached: by legislatures, public utility commissions, solar installers. solar equipment OEMs and homeowners. The Tesla Energy sell sheet is FAKE...just to make the needed points to the consumer. All comments welcomed.
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Interesting concept however, I'd rather not see the "Tesla Remote Solar" using panels from the fragile desert with associated long transmission lines. In it's place, I'd like to see the bank of panels to be located closer to the users. In California most communities, even in cities such as LA or San Diego still have vacant lots within the city or at least county limits. Many micogrids is better than one big one.

 

[Redhill_qik]

I tried to reduce this proposed solution - Remote Home Solar - to a couple of slides. The Duck Curve must be addressed, meaning some compromises must be reached: by legislatures, public utility commissions, solar installers. solar equipment OEMs and homeowners. The Tesla Energy sell sheet is FAKE...just to make the needed points to the consumer. All comments welcomed.
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I'm confused as to what problem this is trying to solve.

Massive solar arrays already exist and new arrays do not seem to have funding constraints that would require reaching out home owners to fund the build. Stadium PSLs, but for solar?

Utility electric costs are the sum of generation, distribution, and fees/taxes. This proposal would eliminate generation costs, but not the other two buckets leaving 2/3 of the costs (in CA at least).

Remote panels do not lessen the burden on building larger distribution grids to get the electricity to the homes, so distribution costs may increase, plus higher loss through the transmission lines.

Home battery systems without home solar are in place in many regions which can improve the peak demand and provide grid stability.

 

[cali8484]

I tried to reduce this proposed solution - Remote Home Solar - to a couple of slides. The Duck Curve must be addressed, meaning some compromises must be reached: by legislatures, public utility commissions, solar installers. solar equipment OEMs and homeowners. The Tesla Energy sell sheet is FAKE...just to make the needed points to the consumer. All comments welcomed.
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It seems backwards. Remote/community energy storage would be much more helpful for all stakeholders including ratepayers that don't have solar which is one of the main factors behind the "cost shift" argument.

 

[winfield100]

I'm confused as to what problem this is trying to solve.

Massive solar arrays already exist and new arrays do not seem to have funding constraints that would require reaching out home owners to fund the build. Stadium PSLs, but for solar?

Utility electric costs are the sum of generation, distribution, and fees/taxes. This proposal would eliminate generation costs, but not the other two buckets leaving 2/3 of the costs (in CA at least).

Remote panels do not lessen the burden on building larger distribution grids to get the electricity to the homes, so distribution costs may increase, plus higher loss through the transmission lines.

Home battery systems without home solar are in place in many regions which can improve the peak demand and provide grid stability.

i seem to recall T&D (transmission and distribution) costs are around 3-4 cents/kw from centralized generation plants.
in my case as a homeowner, i prefer T&D of 50-75 ft as opposed to ~20 miles (~100,000ft) and decentralized generation overall for PV and let wind farms use the big lines with the 220meter diameter swept arcs

 

[Ed Hart]

It seems backwards. Remote/community energy storage would be much more helpful for all stakeholders including ratepayers that don't have solar which is one of the main factors behind the "cost shift" argument.

Community solar works best when the community is new and under the control of the builder. The cost of solar and the necessary very large storage capability can be built into the home price. Without storage, an entire community on solar has a horrific Duck Curve. I believe utilities will win all future battles on these systems and require community solar to have storage to 10:00 PM or so.

Adding community solar to an existing development typically requires all residents to agree on the concept, timing and funding. That’s tough. And, not all communities have available land with good solar geometry…and many may simply be in the wrong part of the globe….like Western New York, for example.

 

[Ed Hart]

The Early-Ins on Home Solar got the best deals, thanks to attractive state and federal incentives. Most were able to slash their electric bills to zero. These programs kickstarted the solar movement in the US.

But these programs will need to change. Each new home solar installation contributes to a worsening of The Duck Curve problem facing the utilities.

In the meantime, states like California have mandated that utilities must add more solar power to the grid, but with massive battery storage so that these solar farms don’t add to the Duck Curve problems.

Homeowners who have not or cannot invest in home solar complain are paying higher rates to support these various solar programs…and everyone’s rates are going up. Neighbors without solar believe they are paying the bills of those who do. No surprise, state legislatures are hearing from the voters.

Further, public utility commissions are listening more closely to utilities, and both are seeking solutions that will pass muster with legislatures and customers.

So, IMNSHO, home solar incentives will need to be reshaped going forward, and solutions are needed to satisfy all parties. It will mean a serious compromise. So, the Remote Home Solar proposal attempts to solve some of the challenges:

We are still in an era where investment by homeowners is the best tool for accelerating solar adoption. Commercial generation companies are lagging.

Not all homes are located where solar is attractive. Western New York is too cloudy, for example, and even coastal California has weeks marine layer that makes solar far less predictable.

Not all homes can physically accept solar panels, due to numerous locale constraints, not to mention homeowner association restrictions and unappealing appearance.

Public utility commissions will likely be allowed to require new installations to include home battery storage to carry the load through the evening peak usage period.

Utilities will be given control over home battery storage systems to balance the benefit to both the homeowner and the utility. These many units will create a virtual power storage system on the local grid.

Homeowners will get the benefit of 1) lower installation cost (no panels on roof), 2) no maintenance and repair issues with panels, 3) ideal desert location for their solar panel investment and 4) local power storage for many hours of emergency backup.

Desert solar farms will grow the capability of their grid connections commensurate with demand.

Utilities and public utility commissions will need to work out how best to handle the grid use costs. It will be contentious…but something must change

Note that Tesla Energy now requires Powerwall with all solar installations. I suspect this is setting the stage for something like Remote Home Solar.

 

[h2ofun]

The Early-Ins on Home Solar got the best deals, thanks to attractive state and federal incentives. Most were able to slash their electric bills to zero. These programs kickstarted the solar movement in the US.

But these programs will need to change. Each new home solar installation contributes to a worsening of The Duck Curve problem facing the utilities.

In the meantime, states like California have mandated that utilities must add more solar power to the grid, but with massive battery storage so that these solar farms don’t add to the Duck Curve problems.

Homeowners who have not or cannot invest in home solar complain are paying higher rates to support these various solar programs…and everyone’s rates are going up. Neighbors without solar believe they are paying the bills of those who do. No surprise, state legislatures are hearing from the voters.

Further, public utility commissions are listening more closely to utilities, and both are seeking solutions that will pass muster with legislatures and customers.

So, IMNSHO, home solar incentives will need to be reshaped going forward, and solutions are needed to satisfy all parties. It will mean a serious compromise. So, the Remote Home Solar proposal attempts to solve some of the challenges:

We are still in an era where investment by homeowners is the best tool for accelerating solar adoption. Commercial generation companies are lagging.

Not all homes are located where solar is attractive. Western New York is too cloudy, for example, and even coastal California has weeks marine layer that makes solar far less predictable.

Not all homes can physically accept solar panels, due to numerous locale constraints, not to mention homeowner association restrictions and unappealing appearance.

Public utility commissions will likely be allowed to require new installations to include home battery storage to carry the load through the evening peak usage period.

Utilities will be given control over home battery storage systems to balance the benefit to both the homeowner and the utility. These many units will create a virtual power storage system on the local grid.

Homeowners will get the benefit of 1) lower installation cost (no panels on roof), 2) no maintenance and repair issues with panels, 3) ideal desert location for their solar panel investment and 4) local power storage for many hours of emergency backup.

Desert solar farms will grow the capability of their grid connections commensurate with demand.

Utilities and public utility commissions will need to work out how best to handle the grid use costs. It will be contentious…but something must change

Note that Tesla Energy now requires Powerwall with all solar installations. I suspect this is setting the stage for something like Remote Home Solar.

I do not like paying for all the low income programs. We keep heading closer and closer to socialism with the class warfare going on

 

[Ed Hart]

I meant to include this an an example of a home that has its appearance ruined by solar panels.....and notice that trees limit solar effectiveness.

 

[gene]

I meant to include this an an example of a home that has its appearance ruined by solar panels.....and notice that trees limit solar effectiveness.

To me, solar looks gorgeous. Houses without panels look like something is missing or forgotten.

 

[gene]

Public utility commissions will likely be allowed to require new installations to include home battery storage to carry the load through the evening peak usage period.

Utilities will be given control over home battery storage systems to balance the benefit to both the homeowner and the utility. These many units will create a virtual power storage system on the local grid.

I am currently part of a VPP pilot program of 6,000 homes with batteries in California's 805 area code. It is quite painless and pays a few bucks a year. It is organized by Swell Energy.

 

[winfield100]

I meant to include this an an example of a home that has its appearance ruined by solar panels.....and notice that trees limit solar effectiveness.

how is that unattractive?
i do see how some trees need trimmed and certainly hope they are using microinverters and not string inverters for that shading
it is a fairly clean install, 3 flat planes, decent roof

it can be viewed as a statement
“I manufacture my own energy”

 

[gene]

Here is a video recording from the live rally May 19th in Sacramento:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=528304184995604

 

[JeremyWhaling]

In the meantime, states like California have mandated that utilities must add more solar power to the grid

I don’t think that is true, at least in California it is a “renewable portfolio standard” which includes solar, wind, geothermal, biogas, biomass, and small hydroelectric. At some point in the last decade, utility solar likely became the cheapest option, sans storage or means to deal with the duck curve.

Oh and something to note is that for several years starting in 2014-2015, we were several years ahead of the estimated duck curve that CAISO published back in 2012. For 2020 the curves were several thousand MW lower for net load minus renewables. CAISO has “dealt with it” by curtailing and selling/exporting electricity in the EIM market. More recently with battery storage coming in fast.

 

[h2ofun]

I don’t think that is true, at least in California it is a “renewable portfolio standard” which includes solar, wind, geothermal, biogas, biomass, and small hydroelectric. At some point in the last decade, utility solar likely became the cheapest option, sans storage or means to deal with the duck curve.

Oh and something to note is that for several years starting in 2014-2015, we were several years ahead of the estimated duck curve that CAISO published back in 2012. For 2020 the curves were several thousand MW lower for net load minus renewables. CAISO has “dealt with it” by curtailing and selling/exporting electricity in the EIM market. More recently with battery storage coming in fast.

So, with all new homes in Calif now being forced to have solar, how would this impact this law?

 

[JeremyWhaling]

So, with all new homes in Calif now being forced to have solar, how would this impact this law?

It would not impact it because behind the meter solar does not count for RPS. It does show up as a reduction in load, however.

 

[cali8484]

Community solar works best when the community is new and under the control of the builder. The cost of solar and the necessary very large storage capability can be built into the home price. Without storage, an entire community on solar has a horrific Duck Curve. I believe utilities will win all future battles on these systems and require community solar to have storage to 10:00 PM or so.

Adding community solar to an existing development typically requires all residents to agree on the concept, timing and funding. That’s tough. And, not all communities have available land with good solar geometry…and many may simply be in the wrong part of the globe….like Western New York, for example.

Are you proposing people in New York would have remote solar in California to generate and transmit power to their home battery in New York? If so, I am even more doubtful.

 

[Ed Hart]

Are you proposing people in New York would have remote solar in California to generate and transmit power to their home battery in New York? If so, I am even more doubtful.

Yes, I am. As the grid's capability for renewables, and if states continue to ask homeowners to invest in order to enjoy the benefits of home solar, then it matters only slightly where the power is generated...or where it goes. It simply goes into the grid, to be extracted based on your contract terms.

 

[Ed Hart]

I don’t think that is true, at least in California it is a “renewable portfolio standard” which includes solar, wind, geothermal, biogas, biomass, and small hydroelectric. At some point in the last decade, utility solar likely became the cheapest option, sans storage or means to deal with the duck curve.

Oh and something to note is that for several years starting in 2014-2015, we were several years ahead of the estimated duck curve that CAISO published back in 2012. For 2020 the curves were several thousand MW lower for net load minus renewables. CAISO has “dealt with it” by curtailing and selling/exporting electricity in the EIM market. More recently with battery storage coming in fast.

The language of the 2016 California Assembly Bill 2868: "...the CPUC issued D.17-04-039 which required the three major IOUs in the State to propose programs and investments to adopt up to 166.66 MW of distributed energy storage systems into their 2018 AB 2514 energy storage procurement plans."