Needsdecaf
Active Member
My camera will remain firmly taped over, thanks. Tesla already knows enough about what's happening with the car and where it goes, I don't need them to be looking inside it too.
Hard pass.
Hard pass.
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Camera based Driver monitoring
- Thread starter Microterf
- Start date
CR itself? Probably not many. But did you not see all the headlines, "Consumer Reports ranks Tesla last in driver assistance systems" or whatever? They have an axe to grind for sure.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I did - but did they really influence consumer behavior ? Why do you think Tesla is allowing a handful of beta testers to post on youtube ...
Social media trumps traditional media (esp. of the niche variety).
I think the issue is more around regulators than customers. They might ask Tesla to implement something around driver monitoring. But even they will have to grandfather S&X.
KArnold
Active Member
I was wondering if this creeped anyone out besides me. We already have enough Big Brothers watching us. Not sure FSD is worth that to me. That's a huge step in the wrong direction on just about every front, except technological.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Companies should clearly state their policies in terms of what they do with the camera data. It should be to process locally and give warnings. It shouldn't be recorded or transmitted. Regular independent audit should be done to make sure this is strictly adhered to.
(ps : moreover car is kind of an open public area. I'd be more worried about what Google and Amazon are doing with my data.)
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Agreed. Great progress is being made, but monitoring will have to be mandatory until the system is safe enough. That should be fairly obvious to anyone following the progress of autonomy in general. It's an absolute necessity. Personally, I'd love the camera as an alternative to the wheel nag and for the added level if safety.
Cheburashka
Active Member
I was also curious about this but for another reason.
There are plenty of other cars that have driver monitoring. It's not a new or unique problem. Those cars use IR cameras to see through sunglasses. M3/MY do not have that camera.
FloridaJohn
Member
I would assume you could tell if someone is paying attention even without seeing the eyes. Things such as head orientation, body position, hand location would tell you if they are actively engaged, even if eyeball position is not available.
hellchris
Member
This is how OpenPilot works and it works very, very well. I honestly miss it. I find I was MORE engaged with the camera driver monitoring than I am now with AutoPilot. OpenPilot's DM is actually measuring your attentiveness. Currently the wheel nag is used as an approximation, but wheel torque doesn't really correlate to attentiveness. It is all too easy to rest your hand on the wheel and let your attention be diverted elsewhere.
DDotJ
Member
In the AP/FSD Dev settings UI, there is a toggle for Selfie Driver Monitoring. Looks like it is an option in developer mode, so maybe it will be enabled for production firmware soon.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I guess you are not aware of the several fatal crashes that have occurred on AP because the nag system did not detect that the driver was not paying attention.
KArnold
Active Member
Small edit, I suggest striking the red text...
I guess you are not aware of the several fatal crashes that have occurred on AP because the nag system did not detect that the driver was not paying attention.
I guess you are not aware of the several fatal crashes that have occurred on AP because the nag system did not detect that the driver was not paying attention.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
The direct cause of the crash was AP made a bad mistake. The driver was not paying attention and therefore no able to intervene to possibly avoid the crash. In turn, the system did not know that the driver was not paying attention and therefore never tried to warn the driver to pay attention. The whole point of a driver monitoring system is to warn the driver when they are not paying attention so that they are able to intervene and hopefully prevent a crash when the system makes a driving mistake. If the driver monitoring system had been doing its job properly, the driver would have been been paying attention and therefore would have been in a better position to prevent the crash. So the nag system not detecting the driver's attention did indirectly play a role in the crash.
Just like SAE levels 3-5 = nothing more than who is responsible, I feel like driver monitoring is all about personal responsibility vs human behavior.
Elon, being more libertarian in nature is more apt to make the limitations known and then have the person decide to pay attention or not compared to other companies.
That's why I think the camera monitoring is not by choice, but maybe a requirement before they can roll out fsd fleet wide
Elon, being more libertarian in nature is more apt to make the limitations known and then have the person decide to pay attention or not compared to other companies.
That's why I think the camera monitoring is not by choice, but maybe a requirement before they can roll out fsd fleet wide
hellchris
Member
That's a hard claim to make if you haven't sampled the competition. If you think AP's current driver monitoring is "perfectly fine" (implying no room for improvement) then you clearly haven't seen what others are doing in this space. You should really give OpenPilot a try.
Not sure if anyone has seen this yet:
Shows what the cabin camera can detect. It's apparently being used to monitor the FSD beta drivers.
Here's another video. Skip to 4:30:
Very interesting!!
Ahh! Just noticed helvio's post #13 in this thread that had some of this info. Still cool to see it in action.
Shows what the cabin camera can detect. It's apparently being used to monitor the FSD beta drivers.
Here's another video. Skip to 4:30:
Very interesting!!
Ahh! Just noticed helvio's post #13 in this thread that had some of this info. Still cool to see it in action.
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