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Camera condensation

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Apparently it should clear within a reasonable amount of drive time - when pushed what was reasonable, 30-40 minutes

One thing being limited for NoA lane change, but they will become a primary camera when FSD does junctions as side+front sure does not cover roundabouts.

I find it interesting that most B pillar issues I've seen reported seem to affect the UK passenger side.
 
Apparently it should clear within a reasonable amount of drive time - when pushed what was reasonable, 30-40 minutes

One thing being limited for NoA lane change, but they will become a primary camera when FSD does junctions as side+front sure does not cover roundabouts.

I find it interesting that most B pillar issues I've seen reported seem to affect the UK passenger side.

At first I thought it was mainly drivers side for me, but seems fairly even over time.

Stockport service told me originally "it's due to increased humidity levels found in ev's"..... which I could agree with to some extent as I have noticed more condensation in my ev's I think. But then the tech went on to say "because ev's don't have exhaust pipes they don't warm up as much" at which point I called bs and ignored the rest.

However, he did say that the b pillar cameras are not sealed so are effected by cabin humidity and temperature changes etc. This I can believe, but as the cameras take on a more significant role this will have to be fixed. I suspect that cabin ventilation has been minimised to retain heat and as a consequence humidity build up is greater given the right circumstances.

Another difference I suspect to be more common with newer cars is that you can't run heat and ac at the same time. Climate control systems seem to assume you want to regulate just temperature and not humidity.

I mentioned the humidity to my sales contact on collecting the car (HW3 / FSD / MS) and without a word from me next thing I find I have two new cameras and parts of the pillars on order. I will see if they have actually changed the design at all, because all the Model S cars I looked at had the same condensation pattern pictured above if the weather was right.
 
I find it interesting that most B pillar issues I've seen reported seem to affect the UK passenger side.

After one of the recent updates my passenger side was forever giving the camera obscured error. Leeds SC had a look and it turned out to be a plastic film covering the B-Pillar that hadn't been removed prior to delivery. Since then it's been much better, if not quite 100%
 
I have a pocket 90Wh batter pack/car starter and a 12V "hair dryer" in my car (for other uses -- usually removing dew from eyepieces and the secondary mirror of my telescope at my dark site on very humid nights).

Works wonders for that, and once the camera is made dew free it usually stays that way during the drive.
 
I find it interesting that most B pillar issues I've seen reported seem to affect the UK passenger side.

My issues are more often "fender" than B pillar, but they too are nearly always on the left. My armchair theory on this is it's affected by spray etc passing lorries, often very close on motorways. Maybe just what all that looks like to a camera, the cameras themselves are generally clean.

I did have a faulty camera replaced but I'm still getting the error and it's pretty much always on the left, albeit on some journeys all is fine.
 
My issues are more often "fender" than B pillar, but they too are nearly always on the left. My armchair theory on this is it's affected by spray etc passing lorries, often very close on motorways. Maybe just what all that looks like to a camera, the cameras themselves are generally clean.

I did have a faulty camera replaced but I'm still getting the error and it's pretty much always on the left, albeit on some journeys all is fine.
I was thinking the same - spray, mist..... but my issues so far mainly b-pillar cameras. Is the fender a completely sealed unit? Does it have any means of clearing internal fogging?


Not surprisingly, a bunch of the messages I get make sense. IE They appear when the sun is shining (low) and either directly at or across the camera window. The first time I noticed this it happened to be the right b-pillar, and of course I then convinced myself that it was always the right side. Sometimes got the message 'AP suspended for remainder of trip' after prolonged 'blinding' (probably the front camera) but message cleared on its own and AP reactivated itself - several times.

But I kept getting the feeling that the b-pillar messages did not always link to obvious issue such as sun, fogging glass, spray.

Last night, driving along clear dry lanes and small roads in the dark of night, the message popped up for Left b-pillar being blinded. I wasn't using ap at the time. My car was spotless and I had been driving for an hour already with no issue. The message stayed on the IC display for may be a minute or two during which time I could see no common external common factor. The only think is that it was quite cool outside, in the 1-5 degree C range.

Here is my current take on the issue / problem. With no ac on, (even with recirc off) cars (and especially EV's apparently) tend to mist up inside. My guess is that's due to reduced permanent airflow through cabin designed to help keep temperature comfortable without excessive heating. So cabin humidity tends to be higher than we are used to with ICE cars, and in cold weather we keep the windows closed more.

When windows mist, you turn on heater which clears the windows OK, but does not reduce humidity. In fact, it quite possibly increases humidity. If the warm cabin air can heat glass surfaces, then that will reduce formation of mist / condensation on glass. However, the b-pillar cameras are exposed to (probably humid) cabin air, but without any significant flow of warm air to warm the b-pillar glass. On the outside of the car is obviously a steady flow of cooling air, especially if the outside of glass is wet and evaporating, which will cool the glass quite a lot. So cold glass with humid air on the inside is bound to form condensation on inner surface with little way of removing it other than???? more cabin heat? which is likely to increase cabin humidity while doing litte to ventilate or warm the b-pillar glass. Simple answer is a small fan in the b-pillar to keep air moving and help evaporate the condensation.

So I reckon my problem with left camera last night was no more than outside temperature dropping, b-pillar glass cooling, fine condensation forming inside b-pillar glass, one car behind and a few street lights were enough to 'illuminate' the fogged glass, and the car displayed its normal 'blinded' message until it was happy again.
 
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I was thinking the same - spray, mist..... but my issues so far mainly b-pillar cameras. Is the fender a completely sealed unit? Does it have any means of clearing internal fogging?


Not surprisingly, a bunch of the messages I get make sense. IE They appear when the sun is shining (low) and either directly at or across the camera window. The first time I noticed this it happened to be the right b-pillar, and of course I then convinced myself that it was always the right side. Sometimes got the message 'AP suspended for remainder of trip' after prolonged 'blinding' (probably the front camera) but message cleared on its own and AP reactivated itself - several times.

But I kept getting the feeling that the b-pillar messages did not always link to obvious issue such as sun, fogging glass, spray.

Last night, driving along clear dry lanes and small roads in the dark of night, the message popped up for Left b-pillar being blinded. I wasn't using ap at the time. My car was spotless and I had been driving for an hour already with no issue. The message stayed on the IC display for may be a minute or two during which time I could see no common external common factor. The only think is that it was quite cool outside, in the 1-5 degree C range.

Here is my current take on the issue / problem. With no ac on, (even with recirc off) cars (and especially EV's apparently) tend to mist up inside. My guess is that's due to reduced permanent airflow through cabin designed to help keep temperature comfortable without excessive heating. So cabin humidity tends to be higher than we are used to with ICE cars, and in cold weather we keep the windows closed more.

When windows mist, you turn on heater which clears the windows OK, but does not reduce humidity. In fact, it quite possibly increases humidity. If the warm cabin air can heat glass surfaces, then that will reduce formation of mist / condensation on glass. However, the b-pillar cameras are exposed to (probably humid) cabin air, but without any significant flow of warm air to warm the b-pillar glass. On the outside of the car is obviously a steady flow of cooling air, especially if the outside of glass is wet and evaporating, which will cool the glass quite a lot. So cold glass with humid air on the inside is bound to form condensation on inner surface with little way of removing it other than???? more cabin heat? which is likely to increase cabin humidity while doing litte to ventilate or warm the b-pillar glass. Simple answer is a small fan in the b-pillar to keep air moving and help evaporate the condensation.

So I reckon my problem with left camera last night was no more than outside temperature dropping, b-pillar glass cooling, fine condensation forming inside b-pillar glass, one car behind and a few street lights were enough to 'illuminate' the fogged glass, and the car displayed its normal 'blinded' message until it was happy again.

When I get the B pillar message there tends to be condensation visible in that unit. Every time I've had this and checked there's been either that or droplets of rainwater on the outside. The fender unit is external rather than behind glass, so I don't think it suffers from the same thing, but it does get dirty much more easily. That said, the fender camera does give the error message quite frequently with no dirt on the camera.
 
The messages on my S started happening sometime in Oct/Nov so I assume an update started reporting them and likely they existed before but unreported for the 1st year. I've been keeping a diary in the car. Almost always there is visible condensation. Today for instance i preconditioned the car before driving my wife off for an MRI 17miles. I was parked up for an hour with heaters on reading a book before we journeyed back. 1/2 way home the messages started all related to Left B pillar and it was totally obstructed with condensation when we arrived. I also keep a notes of air temps, weather etc with these episodes. The only time I've had fender cam warnings is due to motorway spray in soggy conditions. I'm still waiting for the promised service re this since I made one in Nov for Dec that was changed to a mobile tech...........usual lack of keeping customers informed.

Irrespective of all that there is a basic design error i.e needs heaters or ducting from a/c and washers.
 
Here is my current take on the issue / problem. With no ac on, (even with recirc off) cars (and especially EV's apparently) tend to mist up inside.

I run with AC on and recirc off and don't experience misting. It doesn't seem to have a significant effect on energy use even though you would think otherwise. Maybe this would benefit your cameras?
 
I run with AC on and recirc off and don't experience misting. It doesn't seem to have a significant effect on energy use even though you would think otherwise. Maybe this would benefit your cameras?
I think I will have to give that a try. I was worried it would have a bad effect on efficiency, but worth checking.
 
I run with AC on and recirc off and don't experience misting. It doesn't seem to have a significant effect on energy use even though you would think otherwise. Maybe this would benefit your cameras?

I stuck a thermal imaging camera at the B posts and on that occasion I found no evidence of warming from cabin pre conditioning in that area. I'm not convinced that the cameras are directly or indirectly part of the cabin air space. I'm going to have another go in the morning as i'm not convinced my front camera heater is working anymore - very reluctant to clear in this mornings frost.
 
I stuck a thermal imaging camera at the B posts and on that occasion I found no evidence of warming from cabin pre conditioning in that area. I'm not convinced that the cameras are directly or indirectly part of the cabin air space. I'm going to have another go in the morning as i'm not convinced my front camera heater is working anymore - very reluctant to clear in this mornings frost.

So 'no evidence of b-pillar warming from cabin' agrees with what I suspect - that b-pillar likely to match outside ambient rather than cabin temp = cold in winter.

I have spoken to two different service centre staff & manager who advised the b-pillar cameras are open to cabin air, but not force-ventilated.
 
I can't fathom why the B pillar cameras are in an enclosure open to cabin air. It's a clear design flaw. They should be sealed and this issue, which for towards half the UK year can be an almost daily occurance, should never arise.
 
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I can't fathom why the B pillar cameras are in an enclosure open to cabin air. It's a clear design flaw. They should be sealed and this issue, which for towards half the UK year can be an almost daily occurance, should never arise.
When they get around to replacing mine to 'fix' the problem, I will hopefully find out the whole story.

In SoCal I doubt they get conditions for condensation very often - if ever.
 
They should be sealed and this issue, which for towards half the UK year can be an almost daily occurance, should never arise.

Ditto rear lights.

Personally I think Tesla have a QC issue and just come up with some BS to justify why they are not able to seal something consistently. Whats the issue with rear lights/cameras that do not fog up in these cold humid conditions - are their breather holes blocked or something?
 
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Again, absolutely no evidence that B pillars have any noticeable warming in todays frost.

A slightly warmer patch at base of drivers side B pillar, but that was there even before pre heating.

Effect of approx 15 minutes pre conditioning - starting point 1C outside, 0C inside.

On side note, door handles popped open without fuss at end of pre condition. Unlike yesterday when they were rock solid at end of even longer pre conditioning - a result I suspect of yesterdays frost being wet and todays much drier. You get water droplets in the 'bucket' behind the door handles and it freezes both sides together like superglue. Similar case with charge port - took a couple attempts to open charge port yesterday.

Alas purpose of this mornings exercise was to check if front camera windscreen heater working - unfortunately not - it was working back in November so has either failed since then, or something else going on. So something to add to the list.

upload_2020-1-19_15-4-31.png


At end of pre conditioning, B pillar was 'slush' and could be wiped with finger. Exactly the same state as the door panel - see right photo below.

upload_2020-1-19_15-9-58.png
 
Again, absolutely no evidence that B pillars have any noticeable warming in todays frost.

A slightly warmer patch at base of drivers side B pillar, but that was there even before pre heating.

Effect of approx 15 minutes pre conditioning - starting point 1C outside, 0C inside.

On side note, door handles popped open without fuss at end of pre condition. Unlike yesterday when they were rock solid at end of even longer pre conditioning - a result I suspect of yesterdays frost being wet and todays much drier. You get water droplets in the 'bucket' behind the door handles and it freezes both sides together like superglue. Similar case with charge port - took a couple attempts to open charge port yesterday.

Alas purpose of this mornings exercise was to check if front camera windscreen heater working - unfortunately not - it was working back in November so has either failed since then, or something else going on. So something to add to the list.

View attachment 502091

At end of pre conditioning, B pillar was 'slush' and could be wiped with finger. Exactly the same state as the door panel - see right photo below.

View attachment 502097
That's interesting. With so little heating of the b-pillar glass it's bound to be prone to condensation if the inside is open to the cabin air.

It's surprising that more owners from colder climates haven't been badly impacted.

But why would Tesla bother replacing cameras and other components if there was no likelihood of it improving things or addressing the problem? I hate the thought of them being OK wasting resources like that just to get be of their back (which of course it won't while the issue remains).
 
For anyone interested, first post of Fogged side camera service, found old parts has an image of the rear of B post assembly. Unfortunately, its not entirely clear how well sealed the camera part of the assembly - I think its the section in the middle that looks remover able. The whole unit does however appear to have lip service applied to it but no evidence from that view that the camera area itself is vented to cabin itself unless that flap is something.

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This thread starts getting more interesting at this point B-pillar cameras fogging up?
 
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