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Camper mode heating and snowy days

Discussion in 'Canada' started by wayner, Feb 7, 2018.

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  1. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    car snow2.jpg
     
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  2. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Member

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    Geesh, what a waste of energy.

    Why not just use your app to turn on the heater about 40 minutes before you're done at work (or use the automatic feature) and use less than 5% of that energy while getting the same results?
     
  3. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    Because it won't melt the snow. It was snowing hard at 7:20 this morning when I got to the parking lot. I have tried turning it on a couple of hours before in the past and it did not melt the snow - the best way to do this is to be proactive and have the heat stay on while it is snowing so that the snow melts immediately upon hitting the car.

    But I probably should have shut the climate off early in the afternoon when the snow had stopped.

    Here in Ontario our electricity comes primarily from nukes, hydro and wind which is abundant from 4-7 am when I am charging. I doubt that any carbon will be burnt to recharge the car.

    And I do have my climate turn on 30 minutes before I get to the car each day.
     
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  4. SSedan

    SSedan Member

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    Once snow is built up it is hard to melt because it will bridge and just melt the snow touching the glass, so yeah melting as it falls is way more effective.
    Alternately I used to live in Houghton MI and worked close by, average snowfall at the airport is something like 180" winter of 95-6 was over 300" I actually left the heater turned OFF all winter in my truck, that way the snow never melted and could always be brushed off, windows were more vertical on a 1984 Chevy though so I am not sure it would work as well on the low sloped windshields of today.
     
  5. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    That's awesome. The funniest part is the people giving you *sugar* for it and thumbs downing your post.
     
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  6. Vawlkus

    Vawlkus Member

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    CD954D9A-2B7C-46ED-8FE7-F0DE17337461.jpeg
    It’s SO much fun to do though. :p
     
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  7. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Well, I am sort of torn over the idea. Here in Ontario, Canada we are spending millions on conservation programs including incentives, rebates and advertising to get people to conserve, in comparison to this, minuscule amounts of energy. For example, ads are currently running asking people to unplug their cell phone chargers when they are done charging the phone. Big push on LED light bulbs and so forth.

    On the other hand, @wayner is right that electricity is fairly inexpensive and comes from relatively clean sources, especially when charged overnight.

    I use "camper mode" probably more than necessary too. I use it when I run into a store, when I go out for lunch or dinner etc. because it's nice to get back into a fully warmed up car where the seats, steering wheel and such are all nice an warm too.

    But I generally don't leave it on all day. I find 20-30 minutes, even with a thick coating of snow, is enough. All of the snow may not be gone, but it's a heck of a lot easier to just squeegee off some slush than scrape off rock-hard ice.
     
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  8. Struja

    Struja "Fanboy"

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    I was just about to say, "were you parked somewhere along the 427" but came to realize, that the 427 has not been extended to Halifax (yet). LOL!!!!
     
  9. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    I did that a few weeks ago when we got some snow; I used about 15 miles of range for 9 hours. There is nothing better than a completely toasty car on a cold, snowy day.
     
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  10. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    The guy didn't drone bomb a hydro station and then poison the water supply...he used some energy to keep his car clean and safe.

    I think we need to get some perspective here. The guy drives an electric car that he paid a massive premium for, in part, to do his part. He also paid a massive premium for a solar energy gathering solution that likely won't 'pay off' financially for 25 years, so he's financially sacrificing there as well.

    The energy he used to ensure he is not sat outside in his business clothes clearing his car and waiting for his windows to defrost is less than what someone would use if they drove at 120 vs 100 on a 200 km journey on the highway. Or the energy he used was equivalent to the energy you'd use by having the heat on in the car vs. off for a 120 km drive in winter.

    So those of you scorning wayner, I guess you can continue to tick along at 100 kmh on the 401 with cold noses and your parkas on, while the rest of us bathe in the decadent, energy burning opulence of travelling at 120 kmh and wearing only a sweater.

    I think people need to drop the burning torches and get back to reality here.
     
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  11. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    People will complain about anything and then argue with a rock about it.
     
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  12. Birdman325

    Birdman325 Member

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    Anyone know if the M3 has camper mode? I seem to recall reading that it doesn't (yet).
     
  13. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    #13 mknox, Feb 8, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    I just checked and there was only one post calling it a waste of energy. The rest is just discussion and admonishing that one poster for his thoughts.

    As I said, I use Camper Mode, arguably unnecessarily myself. I agree that it's my money and my choice.

    But I do see the conflict having worked an entire career in the Ontario electric utility sector. Ontario has data to show that conservation programs cost far less per kW than building new generation, and new generation, if necessary, would likely take the form of gas-fired peaker plants.We are already seeing peak periods occur in traditional "off peak" periods like overnight, and periods of excess supply mid-day due to all the solar coming on line. EVs are going to cause a huge disruption in how electricity is generated and distributed over time.

    Even Ontario's supply is not completely carbon-free. We are interconnected with New York, Minnesota and Michigan and depending on power flows, do from time to time import from those jurisdictions. Ontario also still has some oil and diesel generation (yes, quite small) and a fair bit of gas. So while not as severe from an environmental point of view, "idling" an electric car can be compared to idling a gas car just to keep it warm.

    So, the small cost aside, there is still an impact to the overall system depending on how many people do this type of thing. It will need to be factored in to long term energy planning models for sure.

    Again, I'm not arguing against the practice. I do it myself. I used to do it more at my prior workplace where I had installed EVSE and could not only do it, I could do it from free shore power. (my bad). I'm just saying it's not as simple as some would make it out to be.
     
  14. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    check again...

    1.
    2. your own
    3. the post ratings on wayner's OP:
    Disagree x 2
    jsmay311
    rypalmer
     
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  15. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Sheesh! I didn't disagree. I said I do it myself. I also simply said it is not a black and white question as there are factors beyond the cost of the power to consider. Are we not allowed to even discuss things here without being shouted down?
     
  16. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    I am the OP who is the energy waster. My car is charged from 4-7am. I monitor the Gridwatch app and web site, especially on off-hours, and at these times there is very little gas generation turned on. The only ones that are working at those times appear to be a DowChem plant in Sarnia, a Whitby cogen plant and Kirkland Lake. I believe the first two are running due to Industrial demand for reasons beside electricity generation. I am guessing that Kirkland Lake is running either because of industrial need or a lack of other generation nearby. I doubt that my incremental demand in Scarborough at 5:30am causes any pollution whatsoever. So if I am happy to pay for that power then what is the big deal?
     
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  17. Falkirk

    Falkirk Member

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    I just wanted to offer another viewpoint on the solar aspect, now granted this is no longer offered but I'm pretty sure the OP is under the same micro fit plan. My payback is about 7 years not 25 years so it's really the best investment I've ever made, no risk and great feeling knowing I'm helping make clean power for my car eventually (mid year? ha) and others. I actually now have two neighbours with electric cars already!
     
  18. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    I didn't bring up the solar aspect since my production has been about 0 since that snow started to fall. But I have injected more energy into the grid in the last week from my panels then I used heating my car.
     
  19. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely right that you or a small handful of folks' small incremental demand is not going to make any material difference just as a small number of ICE vehicle owners who idle their cars for hours won't make any material difference either.

    I was really thinking ahead to the day when we reach majority of cars being electric and this is a tempting thing to do.

    Provincial power flows are kind of "averaged" by the IESO and apps like GridWatch but in reality, your actual energy's fuel mix might be different. For a number of years, I worked and lived in Kincardine, Ontario right next to the world's largest nuclear generating facility. There was no gas in town, and all the homes were electrically heated. Even when Ontario had all the coal plants still running, my house was for all intents and purposes nuclear powered.
     
  20. David29

    David29 Supporting Member

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    I use this technique to some degree, but not as extensively. My electricity is much more costly and much less is renewables, unfortunately. So I would not run my heat for several hours. Or at least i have not yet done so.

    The hooker is that the hood still needs to be cleaned off, and usually the rear hatch as well -- the heat doe snot get back there very well, in my experience. So if I have to go out with my snow brush anyway, it only takes a few minutes to brush off loose snow in a typical snowfall. And for heavy snowfalls, the car heat is not going to do the job.

    If, however, the snow has frozen to the car, such as when you get wet snow followed by sub-freezing temps. then the preheating is more critical and perhaps easier to justify. Melting frozen snow and ice also helps minimize the risk of scraping and potentially scratching the car surfaces. Unfortunately, you still have to scrape or brush quite a bit -- the front face, hood, sides, rear surfaces, etc.
     

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