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Camping mode disappeared

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NHK X

Active Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,089
987
Texas
Drive a 75D model x, aug 2017 build date. Have most recent software, and also have had the “camping mode” for the HVAC system for a while now and has been working fine. Few days ago tried to start up the HVAC system via app before leaving work to warm up, was unresponsive. When I got to the car it seemed half awake, the large vertical screen was black and didn’t turn on for a few minutes, no back up camera. Since then I have noticed that there is no way to toggle the camping mode. It’s almost like it reverted software for this option.

Does anyone else have this problem? Any ideas for a fix?
 
I had the same “five minute cold boot” experience a couple of weeks ago. A few days later my Model x received a software update. The next morning the center screen never turned on. SC has the car and is replacing the center screen.
 
The "Camping" mode settings are only visible when the X is in Park. They are not present in Drive. I assume this is because there is no need for the setting when the Tesla is moving. Place you X in Park, and the "leave climate on" will return
 
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The "Camping" mode settings are only visible when the X is in Park. They are not present in Drive. I assume this is because there is no need for the setting when the Tesla is moving. Place you X in Park, and the "leave climate on" will return

Somebody needs to send Tesla's UI engineers/designers back to school to learn why unnecessarily stateful UI is bad. When UI disappears completely, that means people have trouble finding it and think something is wrong.

At most, such options should be disabled while the vehicle is not in park (with some UI (e.g. a [?] button) to indicate why it is disabled). When UI is visibly disabled, users try to find out why, rather than assuming that something is broken. This leads to much less user confusion and reduces cognitive load, which tends to result in a much better overall user experience.

I thought that the "no stateful UI element visibility" rule had been considered to be settled best practice for the past twenty years. Why is Tesla having to relearn the most basic UI lessons from the early days of computing?
 
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The Camper Function was requested for passengers to leave the climate cooling/warming for passengers when the Vehicle is off, or when the driver temporarily leaves the vehicle. There was a "complex" mean of power off, park, power off/on to accomplish the same. Quite honestly there is no "Leave Climate On" function required when the vehicle is in Drive -- climate functions normally.

Tesla took the request, never questioned the validity and implemented a change for drivers and passengers in a few months and updated all the vehicles at no charge. I for one will not suggest they don't know software. After 40+ years of driving cars, I have never had a manufacturer be so responsive to those who already own cars. For my part -- Thanks TESLA!
 
Tesla took the request, never questioned the validity and implemented a change for drivers and passengers in a few months and updated all the vehicles at no charge. I for one will not suggest they don't know software.

To be clear, I never suggested they don't know software, just that at times, I think their user interfaces feel like they (and lots of other companies, to be fair) would benefit from taking the time to read about the history of UI design to learn from others' mistakes rather than remaking them all over again.

To give a really straightforward example, consider the door UI for the model X. Most people naturally see things at the top as being forward of things at the bottom, because they are used to seeing top-down views in other interfaces. But instead of laying out the doors in natural order from front to back, Tesla put the gull wing doors at the top — the back doors. This means that at a glance, most new users will assume that those upper door buttons open and close the front doors, and that the lower buttons open and close the back doors.

As a result, I've closed my leg in the driver's door multiple times because their door UI is so completely and utterly backwards from a human interface perspective. You literally have to think about what the buttons do every time you hit one. That's not the way user interfaces are supposed to work.

So why did they design it that way? Apparently, somebody at Tesla felt that being able to visualize the height of the gull wing doors was more important than being able to instantly visually recognize which door you were opening or closing. The problem is that the design is optimized for entirely the wrong use case. The number of times I've cared about manually choosing the gull wing door height? Zero. I'm sure there are situations where it would be useful, but they're few and far between. By contrast, being able to tap a button and open or close a door without thinking? That's something that I do several times per day, often with painful consequences.

The first rule of UI design — and the rule that we were always taught to cling to above all others — is to make common tasks easy and uncommon tasks possible. One way that you can make common tasks easier is by emphasizing recognition over recall. Recognizing the locations of doors spatially is entirely natural. Recalling a mapping between seemingly arbitrarily positioned buttons and the locations of the doors that they control is much less so. By making a relatively uncommon action (manually telling the car to open the gull wing door only halfway) easier to visualize, they were forced into other unnatural layout decisions that cause significant cognitive load for the much more common case, thus making the common tasks harder. The result is simply not good UI design.

The irony, of course, is that Tesla's website brags about this being an improvement. I shudder to think about what the screen must have looked like previously.

[*pauses to do a quick Google search*]

Okay, so the original design, despite being a little ugly, was approximately correct.

[*cries unconsolably*]
 
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@dgatwood ... I am merely indicating the manual clearly points out that the Keep Climate On (camper mode) is operational ONLY when the vehicle is in Park and was requested by owners. Not only can't it be used in drive, it has no need in drive. The manual also states that it will automatically reset to normal when the X is removed from park. Therefore it would be unnecessary to select camper mode in drive or reverse and the "camper" function would be inoperative in those gears. So as you may view it as a UI fault, I think Tesla got it right. Placing the button only in the mode where it is functional, and automatically turning off the mode, reverting to normal operation when the X is removed from Park (requiring no user intervention). The UI appears consistent -- There is no pop-up to close the doors unless the doors are open and the pop-up closes automatically when in placed in drive; buttons for the NAV settings for size, traffic and Google Earth are only present when in park and removed from the screen in Drive, and so on....the design parameters seem consistent across the UI.

The X UI is different from what ICE drivers are accustomed, we all ask questions here in the Forum. I try to point out answers, if I know them....If I have a suggestion to Tesla, I get it to the right channel, and not bash them here. I remain grateful to those who have helped me understand along the way, and try to do the same. Thanks.
 
@dgatwood ... I am merely indicating the manual clearly points out that the Keep Climate On (camper mode) is operational ONLY when the vehicle is in Park and was requested by owners. Not only can't it be used in drive, it has no need in drive. The manual also states that it will automatically reset to normal when the X is removed from park. Therefore it would be unnecessary to select camper mode in drive or reverse and the "camper" function would be inoperative in those gears. So as you may view it as a UI fault, I think Tesla got it right. Placing the button only in the mode where it is functional, and automatically turning off the mode, reverting to normal operation when the X is removed from Park (requiring no user intervention). The UI appears consistent -- There is no pop-up to close the doors unless the doors are open and the pop-up closes automatically when in placed in drive; buttons for the NAV settings for size, traffic and Google Earth are only present when in park and removed from the screen in Drive, and so on....the design parameters seem consistent across the UI.

The X UI is different from what ICE drivers are accustomed, we all ask questions here in the Forum. I try to point out answers, if I know them....If I have a suggestion to Tesla, I get it to the right channel, and not bash them here. I remain grateful to those who have helped me understand along the way, and try to do the same. Thanks.
@Aljohn, @dgatwood is not criticizing Tesla's implementation of the Camper Mode feature. But rather he is criticizing the User Interface design, specifically the presentation to the end-user.

There is a whole college program on UI design and there have been some rules laid out on what is a good design and what isn't.

Pop-up windows is significantly different from buttons, and they're expected to disappear when dismissed. It has been determined that having buttons appear and disappear can be confusing. It would be better to always display the button, but disable it when the feature isn't available (rather than having the button completely disappear). These are the time-tested rules with regards to buttons.

Another example is that the "Reverse" indicator is not possible when in "Drive", but Tesla continually displays Reverse (and Neutral and Park) even when those settings are not possible. This is good UI design.
 
I understand he is Criticizing the UI design. There is NO One here that can change the design. What is good, is subjective. The opening question was the Keep Climate on was disappearing. That's what I answered.

If one wants improvements or make recommendations, go to the right channel. Gripping to those who can't affect change is simply "bit**ing". Saying "someone needs to send Tesla's engineers back to school" accomplishes nothing productive, nor answers the question posted.
 
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I understand he is Criticizing the UI design. There is NO One here that can change the design. What is good, is subjective. The opening question was the Keep Climate on was disappearing. That's what I answered.

If one wants improvements or make recommendations, go to the right channel. Gripping to those who can't affect change is simply "bit**ing". Saying "someone needs to send Tesla's engineers back to school" accomplishes nothing productive, nor answers the question posted.
You make a good point. I have personally emailed Tesla dozens of recommendations. One of the first was the UI door layout. Even a year after ownership, I was still accidently closing the front doors on my passengers rather than closing the FWD doors. It's is totally unintuitive. I recommend everyone do the same. The more recommendations we make, the better these vehicles become.

A funny anecdote...the very first recommendation I made was to retract the rear spoiler whenever the rear hatch was opened to lessen the chance that it would impact a ceiling. I was quite surprised that I got that exact functionality 4 weeks later (Tesla may have already thought of that feature and had it in the works).

The first time I closed the hatch with this new feature, I panicked that my hatch was going to hit my open/raised garage door and I immediately grabbed the hatch blindly, with my fingers under the spoiler. I quickly remembered the retracting spoiler, and pulled my fingers just as the spoiler was lowered <whew>. I haven't made that mistake again, although I'm hoping there is a sensor to prevent fingers from getting snagged.

Tesla has ignored every other recommendation I've made (~24 of them). I'm surprised they haven't fixed the door UI, nor implemented my recommendation that the doors don't auto-present when the vehicle is plugged in, or to present the door pop-up window whenever the parking button is pressed (whether already in park or not). Oh well, I guess these are great ideas in my mind only.
 
I have gone to a number of Tesla "breakfast" here in Atlanta area. I am always amazed that the representatives wiling except all feed back -- even some I think absurd. Never-the-less, they write down all comments and recommendations without judgment. As you point out, they don't implement all, but are willing to listen.

Sorry to all, we have gotten far off topic to the thread.
 
I had the same “five minute cold boot” experience a couple of weeks ago. A few days later my Model x received a software update. The next morning the center screen never turned on. SC has the car and is replacing the center screen.
2017 MX 100D, built 9/2017 had same problem with center screen and alert in dash that emergency braking disabled. Burbank Service Center diagnosed both problems as known firmware bug issue. SC updated firmware to 18.4.87, driving around Los Angeles all day yesterday was perfect with no further problems.