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currently charging with all stalls taken and getting 41kW when I used to charge at Dublin I would at least get over 70 even with all stalls occupied. I hope Tesla does something about charging speeds here.
Tesla states the Urban Superchargers max out at 72kW according to the Find Us webpage.Correction: Urban is 74kW, not 60kW.
I wonder if it is possible to retrofit a classic supercharger to an Urban supercharger. Well, of course it is possible. The question is, how feasible is it? Do the stall cabinets needs to be changed, or is that just cosmetic?
Cosmetics is not an issue at all, hence my question. Is there a difference between the two stall cabinets besides cosmetics? Infrastructure, likely, but the connector at the stalls? I don’t know, and why I ask.??? For what purpose? IIRC 120kW superchargers already curtail output if the grid can't handle the draw. So a classic supercharger can be a Urban Supercharger if it needs to be.
I don't understand what the utility here is that you're going after... do you just like the look?
Cosmetics is not an issue at all, hence my question. Is there a difference between the two stall cabinets besides cosmetics? Infrastructure, likely, but the connector at the stalls? I don’t know, and why I ask.
The purpose of Urban superchargers is to guarantee a max charge of 72 kW, even if you arrive to a paired stall. Yes, this would give a slower rate than the classic supercharger, but the chances of ever getting more than 72 at Culver City, Qualcomm, Redondo Beach, Fountain Valley, etc (all built before the inception of Urban style), is unheard of. On a remote location, I still want the classic style. At super congested sites, Urban chargers have a major advantage.
No, a classic cannot act like an Urban, at least not that I am aware. If you were to arrive second to a paired stall at a classic site, you will have a massively reduced charge rate, and not the 72 kW as you would at an Urban style one.
Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. What if a classic supercharger gave a max of 120 kW, unless paired. As is, the rate already drops when paired, but not to all the way down to 72 kW. At least, not until sufficient charge has achieved. I guess what I am looking for is some type of hybrid. Imagine a classic supercharger that can give 120 kW, but automatically decreases to 72 kW when paired, guaranteeing the newer arrival to also get 72 kW. This would be alternative to the slight decrease it gives now. It seems to me that this could be accomplished by software.Ah... so you want to ensure you get ~72kW and not what's left of ~135kW which could be ~20kW....
Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. What if a classic supercharger gave a max of 120 kW, unless paired. As is, the rate already drops when paired, but not to all the way down to 72 kW. At least, not until sufficient charge has achieved. I guess what I am looking for is some type of hybrid. Imagine a classic supercharger that can give 120 kW, but automatically decreases to 72 kW when paired, guaranteeing the newer arrival to also get 72 kW. This would be alternative to the slight decrease it gives now. It seems to me that this could be accomplished by software.
My original question though is still interesting: for these locations that are overwhelmingly congested, where the classic supercharger with a peak rate of 120 kW is likely never to be achieved, 1) can they, and 2) should they, be converted to Urban style chargers?
All standard superchargers are paired / shared between A and B stalls the first one plugged in gets most of the power and the remaining unused amount is shared with the other person. So you saw 41kW because the other person was using 79-89kW of the 120-130kW available for that paired set.
I am pretty sure they do always stick to that. They use the different looking shape so that we car owners can tell whether it is a standard or urban type.Now as far as the aesthetics of each stall type go, I don't know if these are 100% aligned to the charge rate configs as mentioned above.
The 90kW really old ones I'm pretty sure have all been upgraded by now. But I do think there is still a mix of 120, 135, and 145kW versions spread around across various locations. But of course the urban ones are all the 145kW type, so they can support that 72 + 72.The 145kW number above is for new installations, I believe older ones were 135kW and very early ones were 90kW but they have probably all been replaced now.
The urban supercharger saves cost. It does not need the switch gear to switch the modules between the pedestals.
It also looks like they might use lower gauge cables.
I can't remember which urban Supercharger it was, but shortly after the first ones opened, someone reported they got over 100 kW. So that location appeared to have the new cabinets but they could charge above 72 kW.We don't know whether there is any internal difference between long-distance and urban Supercharger cabinets, so we don't know whether there is any difference in the ability to divide power.
My original question though is still interesting: for these locations that are overwhelmingly congested, where the classic supercharger with a peak rate of 120 kW is likely never to be achieved, 1) can they, and 2) should they, be converted to Urban style chargers?
I get the math (at least I think I do). I would not favor a change from classic to Urban for the reasons you suggested, except for the extremely congested sites where no one gets much more than 72 anyway. That is the one advantage of the Urban chargers. I am thinking Qualcomm as the perfect example. People line up for a long time, only to get 25 kW, or some other pathetic rate, and having to wait a long time to get on their way, resulting in a long back up. If they only need 50 or 80 miles, and got 72kW, they would likely leave sooner.Try doing some math. The way that the legacy Superchargers are designed is to give the ability to change rates takes the same amount of time for the second car to charge, but allows the first car to get out faster, something that is desirable, when possible. As opposed to urban chargers that penalize both cars. There is no way to get out of an urban charger faster.
It may not be intuitive, but just calculate the amount of power that the Supercharger delivers. With the standard Supercharger, the delivery rate is always X (dependent on location) and that is unbalanced spread to the cars. In the urban Supercharger, the charger puts out 1/2X for one car 1X for two.
You don't seem to get the math.I get the math (at least I think I do). I would not favor a change from classic to Urban for the reasons you suggested, except for the extremely congested sites where no one gets much more than 72 anyway. That is the one advantage of the Urban chargers. I am thinking Qualcomm as the perfect example. People line up for a long time, only to get 25 kW, or some other pathetic rate, and having to wait a long time to get on their way, resulting in a long back up. If they only need 50 or 80 miles, and got 72kW, they would likely leave sooner.
Actually, I do get it. And I get your points too. My point is your first one, and that is the guy who arrives and gets 25kW, who is otherwise capable of getting much more. This is incredibly common at these congested chargers, pretty much a guarantee, and almost unheard of to arrive and get more than 72.You don't seem to get the math.
At a 135kW normal supercharger, if someone is only getting 25kW its because the other person is getting 110kW. Once the 110kW hits the taper then the speed of the other car will increase proportional to the decrease in the first car.
The only time the urban chargers would be faster is when both cars are below their taper points, which is rare. Even then its only going to be putting out 9kW more total.
On the other hand if you pull in and the person you are paired with is past their taper point you're going to be getting a tremendous amount more than 72kW.