Can a Model S charge at Autolib Stations (Paris, France) ?

[J-Philipp]

(Note à mes concitoyens : je démarre ce fil en anglais, de manière à ce que tout le monde puisse suivre la conversation, et en particulier nos amis des pays limitrophes qui vont venir à Paris. Mon anglais ne sera pas parfait, mais chacun pourra ainsi participer.)
(Note to my fellow citizens : I'm starting this thread in English, so that everyone feel free to participate, especially our friends from all over Europe, who may be visiting Paris in the future with their Model S. I'll do my best with English, altough I know it won't be perfect, as it's not my native language..)

UPDATED : AUTOLIB' & MODEL S HOW-TO : Jump there !

Maybe most of you have already heard of Autolib, the Paris EV sharing plan. It's now reaching 1100 stations opened, which is quite a big achievement. https://www.autolib.eu/stations/

The good thing is that EV owners are now welcome to use these stations to recharge their own electric vehicle. Here's what you'll find showing up at one of them (hopefully there will be one free space for you !):

For EV owners, the cost of use has been significantly revised to lower prices :
- At first application only there's a €15 fee ;
- Then it's a pay per time spent on charge : 1€/hr, and overnight charging from 20:00 to 8:00 will be charged 4€ maximum.

>> This is VERY CHEAP, because it does not only give you access to recharge points, but to almost 6000 street-level parking places downtown Paris (mostly not occupied). And when you compare to underground parking fees, that's for sure a very good deal ! Not to mention that the model S is very big, essentially too big to use underground parking easily. Using Autolib stations seems to be much more convenient on this matter.

So now the question is : Can you plug in your Model S ?
Autolib give a list of compatible cars with the service on their website : https://www.autolib.eu/faq/particuliers/quels-sont-les-tarifs/

- Winners :smile:: Nissan Leaf, Mitsubishi I-Miev, Peugeot Ion, Citroen C0, Opel Ampera and Renault ZE ;
- Loosers : Smart ED and... the Renault ZOE !!!

And no information for the model S.

Autolib EVs are "Bolloré BlueCars". They use a type 1 plug on the vehicle side. On the charger side it's a type 3, as one would expect in France (in January 2013 the European Commission decided that the standard Europe EV plug will be type 2, so maybe we will see a retrofit one day, but not in a near future) :

On everyday use, Bluecar users just open the lid, pull the type 1 plug out of the charger and plug it in the Bluecar. Any EV using type 1 would do the same.

​

But there's also a possibility of unplugging the charger cable on the charger side, which gives you access to the type 3 socket ! It's 3-phase and should allow up to 22 Kw (although I don't see the Autolib chargers yielding more than 7 kw). The charger cable will remain attached to the charger, but won't be used.

So, in theory, you only need to show up with your own type 3>Type 2 3-phase cable, and the Model S will start charging !
I said : in theory ! Because Renault ZOÉ, which is equipped with a Mennekes type 2 socket on the vehicle side, a 43Kw onboard charger (ZOÉ price tag is €13700, government incentives included !!), and travels with this type 3>type 2 cable in the trunk, eventually proved to be incompatible !! And no details have been released on that ! Autolib is just trying to cancel their past contracts with ZOÉ owners...

SO... has anyone already tried to charge an European Model S in Paris at an Autolib station ?? Lucky CH or NO owners, please, report !

 

[stevezzzz]

Look at that charging station map! Plus street parking! This could be a huge boost to Model S ownership in France, if it works out. It looks like the Autolib chargers use the J1772 plug we have here in the US, which we can use to charge with the adapter that comes with Model S, but I don't know anything about European charging standards or what European S cars come equipped with in the way of charging capabilities. I'll follow this thread with great interest...your English is very good, by the way.

 

[rabar10]

(admittedly off topic) The Autolib system is coming to the USA (Indianapolis, Indiana): Frances Autolib Electric Vehicle Sharing Program Headed to Indianapolis (w/video) (UPDATE)

Your question is a great one, though: will the 3-phase charging be compatible in Paris?

 

[Bipo]

I am pretty sure a Type 3 to Type 2 cable may work fine with th Model S. What I don't know is if that charging poles have the three phases wired or just one phase. Anyway it might be compatible with currents up to 32 A, what means 7,5 kW or 22 kW (one or three phase), excellent for large battery vehicles as the Tesla.

 

[dpeilow]

I think you could also make a Type 1 to Type 2 adapter for the Model S if the Type 3 to 2 cable one doesn't work out.

However, you need to get to the bottom of why the Renault Zoe will not charge. It should have. Model S would face the same problem.

 

[AlexelTech]

However, you need to get to the bottom of why the Renault Zoe will not charge. It should have. Model S would face the same problem.

Excellent question indeed, I faced a similar problem with my Renault Fluence Z.E. on some public charge point, the onboard charger detecting it correctly but refusing to start the charge.
I found no explanation to this enigma until now...

These public charge stations were in Paris, but not Autolib' ones, since I didn't suscribed to Autolib' service until now (I will think about it now, thanks to your article !).
Sometimes unplug / replug forced a new detection of the charger and it started to charge after a few attempts (no explanation to this phenomenon).
The most surprising difficulties took place in Disneyland Resort Paris, which uses the excellent Volt derived plugin hybrid Opel Ampera on a regular basis for some of their (lucky) employees. There was 3 stations with 220V monophased standard EU plugs (16A) on the parking lot, free of use and very convenient, but all of the 8 available plugs definitely refused to start the charge ! Finally I found a quick charge station for the Amperas on a parking lot in one of the Disneyland Hotels, which was compatible and started the charge at the highest rate available on my Fluence Z.E.(10 KWh). By the end of the day when leaving the park my car was fully recharged, for free !
By the way, Kudos to Disneyland Resort Paris for promoting EV mobility, for free... The standard charge plugs are on the main parking lot, near the entrance of the park, you have to ask the key in the doghouse to activate and open the charge points. There are also quick charge plugs in the hotel resort, on the parking lots (New York Hotel is the simplest : 4 ports and it's one of the closest to the park).

I will sell my Renault Fluence Z.E. next month, when I get my Tesla Model S next month, so I am really interested to know if it will be compatible with the Autolib' charge points.

 

[LuckyLuke]

From the 62196 wiki I understand that only single phase basic charging (3.7kW) is allowed when using a type3-type2 cable:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62196#Type_3:_EV_Plug_Alliance (3rd section)
Maybe the autolib is limited in this way and the Zoe charger senses this limitation/low mode and cannot handle this slow charging over its fast charging cable? (just speculating)

 

[Kratus]

I will sell my Renault Fluence Z.E. next month, when I get my Tesla Model S next month, so I am really interested to know if it will be compatible with the Autolib' charge points.

I think you will be one of the first to be able to test it.
I know some Ampera owners in Paris with Autolib subscriptions who would be pleased to test this with you, once you have your Model S.

 

[nikwest]

I will be going to Paris with my Model S next week end. I have registered with Autolib a while ago and used their cars before. Unfortunately I don't have a type 3 to t type 2 cable otherwise I could have tried...

 

[Tigerjeff]

Well... this is pretty good for Parisians :biggrin:
Did you spoked with Tim or Benjamin from Tesla France? As far as I know there where in troubles charging their demo Model S when their was testing it in Paris...
Maybe they know if Autolib stations works or not!

BTW: parking + charge for 1 euro per hour IN PARIS, it's definitely a GOOD DEAL!
Hope we can have something similar in southern France!

 

[J-Philipp]

Look at that charging station map! Plus street parking! This could be a huge boost to Model S ownership in France, if it works out. It looks like the Autolib chargers use the J1772 plug we have here in the US, which we can use to charge with the adapter that comes with Model S, but I don't know anything about European charging standards or what European S cars come equipped with in the way of charging capabilities. I'll follow this thread with great interest...your English is very good, by the way.

Thanks stevezzzz ! I would be also so happy for Tesla if the model S is Autolib compatible !

(admittedly off topic) The Autolib system is coming to the USA (Indianapolis, Indiana): Frances Autolib Electric Vehicle Sharing Program Headed to Indianapolis (w/video) (UPDATE)

That's great news ! Bolloré Group are also expanding their EV sharing plan to Lyon, France ("Bluely") and Bordeaux ("Bluecub")...

I think you could also make a Type 1 to Type 2 adapter for the Model S if the Type 3 to 2 cable one doesn't work out.

Good idea ! Because it would use the Autolib cable instead. I don't feel very comfortable at leaving my vehicle on charge overnight in the street using my own cable. BTW that's would be great for other EU model S owners also, as it's very unlikely that they carry a type 3>Type 2 cable with them...

However, you need to get to the bottom of why the Renault Zoe will not charge. It should have. Model S would face the same problem.

Your question is a great one, though: will the 3-phase charging be compatible in Paris?

For the time the only answer ZOÉ owners got from Renault is this :

It says : Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank you for your feedback. Our customer's satisfaction is so important to us. Blabla.
No more information.
As for the model S, it would be an advantage to lower the current manually during the charge. I don't believe that ZOÉ has the ability to do the same, and that may be part of the problem...

From the 62196 wiki I understand that only single phase basic charging (3.7kW) is allowed when using a type3-type2 cable:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62196#Type_3:_EV_Plug_Alliance (3rd section)
Maybe the autolib is limited in this way and the Zoe charger senses this limitation/low mode and cannot handle this slow charging over its fast charging cable? (just speculating)

Well... But ZOÉ drivers use this type3-type 2 cable at fast charging stations and what I understand after browsing their forum is that they usually pull much more than 3,7 Kw.

I will be going to Paris with my Model S next week end. I have registered with Autolib a while ago and used their cars before.

That's very kind of you nikwest ! Unfortunately I believe that the subscription you would need differs from the classic one that gave you access to car sharing. Going through the process of this specific subscription you're likely to be asked for a copy of your car registration certificate (they call it : « carte grise » or « certificat d'immatriculation » ). And I'm afraid that you won't be able to go further, as I expect that they'll deny access to any car which is not on the approved list of compatible vehicles (following the bad experience they had with ZOÉ).

BUT...

I know some Ampera owners in Paris with Autolib subscriptions who would be pleased to test this with you, once you have your Model S.

So Kratus may give a hand on this matter !

Unfortunately I don't have a type 3 to t type 2 cable otherwise I could have tried...

What I could do is trying to come into contact with a ZOÉ owner on the ZOÉ drivers forum, because they all carry one of these cables with them. With the help of Kratus, maybe we could eventually make that test. Do you think that we should make a try ?

Well... this is pretty good for Parisians :biggrin:
Did you spoked with Tim or Benjamin from Tesla France? As far as I know there where in troubles charging their demo Model S when their was testing it in Paris...
Maybe they know if Autolib stations works or not!

Until very recently they were using US Model S (adapted for EU roads) for the test drives. The charger on board is only 1-phase, and I don't even know if an adapter (Type 3->US Tesla plug) is available. If they have now received the European ones, they may have already conducted some testing...

 

[AlexelTech]

Bonjour,

Regardez ce test fait par 01net.com de la Tesla Model S :
http://www.01net.com/editorial/5992...47f9c9245caac2aaef4b76ab125&elqCampaignId=439

Vous remarquerez à 0:25" que la voiture se recharge sur un emplacement Autolib' !
C'est donc bien possible, et déjà réalisé (sauf si les auteurs du reportage ont bidonné le branchement mais ça m'étonnerais) !
Voilà une super nouvelle pour tous les possesseurs de Tesla Model S !

Il faut sans doute un adaptateur pour se connecter sur le branchement type 3 des bornes Autolibs' et déconnecter le port standard.
Je reçois ma voiture en Novembre, je fais l'essai et je vous tiens au courant si personne n'a testé avant (un possesseur de version Signature, par exemple, car elle seront livrées avant la mienne).

 

[J-Philipp]

Bonjour,

Regardez ce test fait par 01net.com de la Tesla Model S :
http://www.01net.com/editorial/5992...47f9c9245caac2aaef4b76ab125&elqCampaignId=439

Vous remarquerez à 0:25" que la voiture se recharge sur un emplacement Autolib' !
C'est donc bien possible, et déjà réalisé (sauf si les auteurs du reportage ont bidonné le branchement mais ça m'étonnerais) !
Voilà une super nouvelle pour tous les possesseurs de Tesla Model S !

Il faut sans doute un adaptateur pour se connecter sur le branchement type 3 des bornes Autolibs' et déconnecter le port standard.
Je reçois ma voiture en Novembre, je fais l'essai et je vous tiens au courant si personne n'a testé avant (un possesseur de version Signature, par exemple, car elle seront livrées avant la mienne).

The car that appears in the video is a US model (check the charge port). It's connected to the Autolib' station via a custom UMC (based on the roadster UMC ?). The capability to use the Autolib charger via a type 3->type 2 cable on a European model is still to be demonstrated.
FYI I had a phone conversation with an Autolib' rep, and the answer is officially that the model S is not on the list of approved vehicles (thus far ?), albeit I can't see why it should not be. And that's a problem, because they won't let you register your Model S... You'll have to find someone that has already access to Autolib chargers to make the test.

Anyway, thank you for your answer and your trial proposal. Your experience will benefit to others... Hope you'll enjoy the car when you receive it !!

 

[J-Philipp]

Caught sight : Rue François 1er, in the heart of Paris, on December 13th !

This time this is an European Model S, using a type 3->type 2 cable to charge.
Still no official feedback about compatibility, but now seems to be only a matter of paperwork !

 

[fredag]

Caught sight : Rue François 1er, in the heart of Paris, on December 13th !

This time this is an European Model S, using a type 3->type 2 cable to charge.
Still no official feedback about compatibility, but now seems to be only a matter of paperwork !

When I contacted Autolib recently about charging my Model S on their charging stations, they told me I could use a normal type2 cable, but that I would only get 1x16A / 3.6kW.

Where can I get type 3->type 2 cables? Does anyone have any experiece with using type 3->type 2 cable for charging in France? What charging speeds are you able to achieve with type 3->type 2 cables?

 

[J-Philipp]

No matter the cable used, you won't get more than 3,7 kW in the Autolib stations.
I believe that Type 3c to type 2 allows at least 3-phase/32A : 22 kW.

 

[J-Philipp]

PARIS AUTOLIB' and TESLA S HOW-TO

So...
I eventually subscribed to Autolib' Service and now that I've owned my car for more than a month, I've had the opportunity to test it several times. I wanted to share this experience with you.


A/ Subscription :
The first thing you'll need to do is to reach one of the dedicaded "kiosk" for subscription. Visit Stations | Autolib online, specify "Subscription Kiosk" and choose the most convenient for you :

Drive up there ! Here's what you're looking for :

Be sure to have the required documents ready :

• Driving license ;
• Credit card
• Registration card for the vehicle (in French : "Certificat d'immatriculation" AKA "Carte grise")

Then you may enter the booth.

Ready to start the conference call ? Choose your language and meet your Autolib agent online by video ! During the chat, your documents will be scanned and you'll be asked to insert your credit card. At the end of the process, you'll receive your provisional card (pink badge) and you may start to use it right away !
Note : The Tesla S is still not officially approved, but I've had no issues so far while using the service.

B/ Initialization of a new card
The first time you want to use your pink badge, you need to initialize it. Look for this. There's one in every Autolib' station.

Swipe your badge and you'll be asked to choose a 4-digit code. You'll only have to do this ONCE before you can use a new badge, be it provisional (pink) or not (blue).
Don't ask me why you need to do this, because it's the first and last time you'll be asked to enter that pin code AFAIK. But still, it's required

C/ Park and Charge !
Park your S in a free parking space. The light on the chargepoint must be green or blue (see below : reservation). Not RED.
Of course, as you're travelling in France, you NEED a type 2 -> Type 3c cable.

1. First plug the cable on the Model S side ;
2. Swipe your card on the chargepoint.
   • Flashing green ? Open the lid !
   • Flashing red ? Back to step B (Initialization of a new card)
3. ​Unplug the blue socket. It reads "Important : Ne pas débrancher cette prise", which translates into "DO NOT UNPLUG", but this one is used by the Bluecars, and you can't use this cable. You want to use the blue socket with your own cable instead. Only remember to plug it back upon leaving the charge point. Stow it on the left side carrefully, because you'll need to fully close the lid at step 5.
   
4. Plug your own cable, and fully close the lid, carefully adjusting the exit path of your cable.
   Flashing RED ? The lid is not fully closed.
   
5. Steady blue ? Congratulations ! Charge will begin soon !
   
   
   It may take a minute or two before power is established after the steady blue state. Be patient !
6. You'll only get 230 V 1-phase at 16A. That's only 3.7 kVA, or 16 km/h, or 10 miles per hour spent on charge. But it's street level parking downton Paris, 1€ per hour (and max 4€ for any duration exceeding 4 hours between 20hrs - 8hrs) ! Cheaper than ICE parking...

D/ Let the Police know that you're allowed to park in Autolib' stations
In a week or two, you'll receive at home your blue badge and a sticker to leave behind the windshield. For now my advice is to place your pink badge behind the windshield, to avoid undue ticketing and tow-away.

E/ Back on the road.

1. Stop the charge from the central console in the car, and unlock the chargeport.
2. Unplug on the car side
3. Swipe your card on the chargepoint, and open the lid
4. Unplug your cable
5. PLUG the blue socket BACK, thus bluecar users have no issues.
6. Close the lid.
7. You'll receive immediatly a text message on your cellphone, like this one :

397 minutes for €4.48 :

ADVANCED :

• RESERVATION : YES it is possible to reserve a parking place for free. Use the Android/Iphone App or visit the website online. Your reservation will expire in 90 minutes.
  When you show up, look for a free place with a STEADY BLUE chargepoint. If you have a valid reservation, you may park here. ALTERNATIVELY you may use any free space at the station. When you connect to a STEADY GREEN charge point instead of your reserved STEADBY BLUE chargepoint, your reservation is automatically cancelled.
  RESERVATION is strongly advised, because it may happen that you park in front of STEADY GREEN light, and while you prepare your cable, the charge point becomes BLUE : Someone has just made a reservation, and you have to leave...:cursing:

 

[bpsmits]

Do you need to be a French citizen for this registration?

 

[J-Philipp]

That would be illegal to ban foreigners I think.
Note that the website is available in english.

 

[jackie]

Where can I get type 3->type 2 cables? Does anyone have any experiece with using type 3->type 2 cable for charging in France? What charging speeds are you able to achieve with type 3->type 2 cables?

Maybe you already sourced this :wink:
I bought one from http://www.ve-tronic.fr/store/
I wanted to use it at the Renault garage in Calais but last time I called in their charge points were "en panne".