Can I make it ~150miles daily w/o stopping to charge? LRAWD?

[cubedweller]

Hello TMC!~

First post here. I apologize if this has been asked but I've searched and haven't found anything specific enough to address my worries/concerns. I commute ~150 miles (total/round trip) approx. 3 days a week for work. No traffic/highway miles and speed (e.g. 70mph-ish). I live in SoCal so I don't believe whether is much of a concern. I'll be home charging (in a garage). Can I make this commute without needing to stop to charge? Can I keep sentry mode enabled while at work? From what I've read, I'm hoping I can make this commute charging to 85% and get home around 15%. Does this seem right?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Sklith]

You should be able to commute 150 miles round trip from 85% each day, and have 100 miles to spare.

 

[StealthP3D]

Hello TMC!~

First post here. I apologize if this has been asked but I've searched and haven't found anything specific enough to address my worries/concerns. I commute ~150 miles (total/round trip) approx. 3 days a week for work. No traffic/highway miles and speed (e.g. 70mph-ish). I live in SoCal so I don't believe whether is much of a concern. I'll be home charging (in a garage). Can I make this commute without needing to stop to charge? Can I keep sentry mode enabled while at work? From what I've read, I'm hoping I can make this commute charging to 85% and get home around 15%. Does this seem right?

Thanks in advance!

Yes, no problem. I could easily do this in my Performance Model 3 also, the LR won't even challenge it.

 

[jjrandorin]

Hello TMC!~

First post here. I apologize if this has been asked but I've searched and haven't found anything specific enough to address my worries/concerns. I commute ~150 miles (total/round trip) approx. 3 days a week for work. No traffic/highway miles and speed (e.g. 70mph-ish). I live in SoCal so I don't believe whether is much of a concern. I'll be home charging (in a garage). Can I make this commute without needing to stop to charge? Can I keep sentry mode enabled while at work? From what I've read, I'm hoping I can make this commute charging to 85% and get home around 15%. Does this seem right?

Thanks in advance!

Weather IS a concern, even out here. I live in temecula and commute to Oceanside M-F. My wh/mi is 50 units higher than it will be by mid march for my model 3p (310 wh/mi vs 260 ish).

Why do you want to make this commute charging to 85% instead of 90%? I charge to 90% every...single..day (every day since I have gotten my car). I have 20k miles on it and have "lost" 4 miles of range, while those who baby their batteries whail and gnash teeth about 10-15-20 miles lost.

Sentry mode will consume 1 mile an hour or so. Your 150 mile commute during our winter will likely consume around 200-210 miles of range, if you drive 65-70. you likely will be driving a little faster than 70 though depending on how open the freeways are. In a model 3 AWD you should still be fine, but I would just plan on charging to 90% instead of some value thats less than that for no real reason. You wont even be able to set it to "85%" using the tesla app. Just plan to charge to 90%, take the car with 18 inch wheels and you will still be fine, but you will likely be driving 90-15% or so, depending on if you use sentry and or cabin overheat protection.

 

[cubedweller]

Weather IS a concern, even out here. I live in temecula and commute to Oceanside M-F. My wh/mi is 50 units higher than it will be by mid march for my model 3p (310 wh/mi vs 260 ish).

Why do you want to make this commute charging to 85% instead of 90%? I charge to 90% every...single..day (every day since I have gotten my car). I have 20k miles on it and have "lost" 4 miles of range, while those who baby their batteries whail and gnash teeth about 10-15-20 miles lost.

Sentry mode will consume 1 mile an hour or so. Your 150 mile commute during our winter will likely consume around 200-210 miles of range, if you drive 65-70. you likely will be driving a little faster than 70 though depending on how open the freeways are. In a model 3 AWD you should still be fine, but I would just plan on charging to 90% instead of some value thats less than that for no real reason. You wont even be able to set it to "85%" using the tesla app. Just plan to charge to 90%, take the car with 18 inch wheels and you will still be fine, but you will likely be driving 90-15% or so, depending on if you use sentry and or cabin overheat protection.

Thanks! This is more inline with what I imagine to be real world expectations/performance (i.e., half of advertised range). Honestly, I pulled the 85% out of my ass after reading some other threads ... 90% it is! I do want to take advantage of sentry/cabin overheat protection so I'm going to assume my commute will eat much of the available charge with a 15% buffer (even at 90%) ... I hope.

 

[TimothyHW3]

Thanks! This is more inline with what I imagine to be real world expectations/performance (i.e., half of advertised range). Honestly, I pulled the 85% out of my ass after reading some other threads ... 90% it is! I do want to take advantage of sentry/cabin overheat protection so I'm going to assume my commute will eat much of the available charge with a 15% buffer (even at 90%) ... I hope.

You can easily do the math yourself.
LR AWD has about 72kWh usable after some degradation +3.5kWh below 0%
So you take 72 and divide it by the consumption - 310Wh/m in the winter and 260 in the summer (72000/310) this will give you 235 winter to 275miles roughly. Since you will be trying to use only 80% of those - roughly 190 miles winter vs 220 miles of summer range. I don't think you will want to have sentry mode through the day though, it does use some kWh.

The 100 miles to spare with 85% to 35% (100 miles to spare) someone mentioned above are unrealistic, especially in the winter if you match those consumption values above. You can increase the range a bit by using the proper settings in the winter - don't set HVAC to Auto and turn off AC (you need it in the hot weather only) and set to manual fan speed 1 or 2. In mild California weather this is enough.

 

[hcdavis3]

Weather IS a concern, even out here. I live in temecula and commute to Oceanside M-F. My wh/mi is 50 units higher than it will be by mid march for my model 3p (310 wh/mi vs 260 ish).

Why do you want to make this commute charging to 85% instead of 90%? I charge to 90% every...single..day (every day since I have gotten my car). I have 20k miles on it and have "lost" 4 miles of range, while those who baby their batteries whail and gnash teeth about 10-15-20 miles lost.

Sentry mode will consume 1 mile an hour or so. Your 150 mile commute during our winter will likely consume around 200-210 miles of range, if you drive 65-70. you likely will be driving a little faster than 70 though depending on how open the freeways are. In a model 3 AWD you should still be fine, but I would just plan on charging to 90% instead of some value thats less than that for no real reason. You wont even be able to set it to "85%" using the tesla app. Just plan to charge to 90%, take the car with 18 inch wheels and you will still be fine, but you will likely be driving 90-15% or so, depending on if you use sentry and or cabin overheat protection.

Thanks jj. I’ve been a teeth gnasher since I’ve owned my 3, almost a year. 90% every day and 4 miles range loss sounds awesome. I drive no more than 30 miles a day and most days much less. I’ve been charging to 70 % and then to 90% for a while now. I’ve read that the BMS works best at 90%. Based on your experience I think I’ll just leave it at 90%. Let me know what you think of the attached battery report.

 

[cubedweller]

You can easily do the math yourself.
LR AWD has about 72kWh usable after some degradation +3.5kWh below 0%
So you take 72 and divide it by the consumption - 310Wh/m in the winter and 260 in the summer (72000/310) this will give you 235 winter to 275miles roughly. Since you will be trying to use only 80% of those - roughly 190 miles winter vs 220 miles of summer range. I don't think you will want to have sentry mode through the day though, it does use some kWh.

The 100 miles to spare with 85% to 35% (100 miles to spare) someone mentioned above are unrealistic, especially in the winter if you match those consumption values above. You can increase the range a bit by using the proper settings in the winter - don't set HVAC to Auto and turn off AC (you need it in the hot weather only) and set to manual fan speed 1 or 2. In mild California weather this is enough.

Thanks! I really appreciate the right up/explanation. Again, much more realistic. I wish Tesla was this clear in their marketing. How does regenerative breaking figure into these calculations? Your math is pretty cut and dry and definitely makes sense me (and also for planning purposes / being on the safe side).

For further discussion, the first and last 10 miles of my drive are filled with stop lights and the highway I use also has several stop lights. This would give me back some of those kWh I’d imagine ... I’m only on freeways for the last / first 25 miles or so if the drive. So maybe a little over 1/3 of the drive. Then again, maybe this is already taken into account with the 310/260 numbers. I’ll guess I’ll find out soon enough one way or another!

 

[Msjulie]

We do pretty much exactly that (74.9 x2) every weekend and leave at 90% and return home with 30-33% depending on how heavy my right foot is and how much stuff is carried in the car (one time it was 350lbs of bathroom tile plus 2 adults)

Regenerative braking is only more efficient than using friction brakes which throw away your momentum/energy. Unfortunately it's always better to have a nice consistent consumption vs having to go and slow and go (which is not always equal to a consistent speed) - much over 60 and consumption noticeably goes up.

Have some fun watching the energy meter while driving, it can help you learn to conserve if you wish.

 

[cubedweller]

We do pretty much exactly that (74.9 x2) every weekend and leave at 90% and return home with 30-33% depending on how heavy my right foot is and how much stuff is carried in the car (one time it was 350lbs of bathroom tile plus 2 adults)

Regenerative braking is only more efficient than using friction brakes which throw away your momentum/energy. Unfortunately it's always better to have a nice consistent consumption vs having to go and slow and go (which is not always equal to a consistent speed) - much over 60 and consumption noticeably goes up.

Have some fun watching the energy meter while driving, it can help you learn to conserve if you wish.

Thanks. Ya, my drive is 75.1! Ideally I wouldn't have to think about it much but I'm sure I'll be hyper-aware for the first month or two of ownership. I'm also pushing my company to install EV chargers at the office (or I'll just bring the mobile charger and recover some kWh throughout the day). I definitely want to take advantage of all the amazing features of the vehicle (sentry mode, cabin overheat protection, adjusting climate prior to leaving work).

 

[ucmndd]

LR AWD has enough range for this even in the worst case scenario. No problem.

 

[jjrandorin]

Thanks jj. I’ve been a teeth gnasher since I’ve owned my 3, almost a year. 90% every day and 4 miles range loss sounds awesome. I drive no more than 30 miles a day and most days much less. I’ve been charging to 70 % and then to 90% for a while now. I’ve read that the BMS works best at 90%. Based on your experience I think I’ll just leave it at 90%. Let me know what you think of the attached battery report.

For what its worth, even the 4 miles I "lost" happened in some firmware update in the middle to end of October, when my car went from 279 at 90% to 274 at 90%, where it still is, right now today. I am not a battery expert nor an expert on charging constants (going to leave that to @AlanSubie4Life or others). From my own experience, and reading here, I believe that the BMS system has a harder time figuring out energy left in the battery when charged below 90%.

I want to be clear that I am not saying that charging to 90% is somehow "better" for the battery than charging to 80%. Battery science tells us that a lower charge is slightly better for the battery, after all. "how much" better 80% is than 90% is debatable, and its my belief that 80% over 90% is going to be a small difference over the lifetime of the battery... the order of a few miles, because tesla does not let us charge to a full 100% of the battery even when you charge to "100%".

What I AM saying is, is that my experience has been that charging to 90% and charging every day has been very good in allowing the cars BMS to show my rated range number without much change. Its my position that people either need to charge to 90% and leave it there, and charge every day (and do so for at least a couple of weeks to allow the BMS to balance), OR charge to whatever lower number makes them happy and stop looking at the rated range number going down and worrying about it, because its less accurate when charge that way.

New owners come here, read all this stuff on the battery, and get either intimidated or get it in their heads they have to somehow "manage" their batteries with magic bullets and formulas. I am just as guilty of this in the past as new owners now, so this is not me just throwing shade, its acknowledging what people are doing. They then start making post after post after post saying basically the same thing, which is:

====================
"I drive my car 25/25/30 miles a day, and I am super concerned that my battery now shows 8-10 miles lower than it used to as max range! My car only has 2/5/7K miles on it, what gives!?!??! I charge my car to 78% all the time like people say I should, WTF is wrong with it?!?!?!?!?!??!"
====================

Even typing it out, it looks silly. I understand WHY people do this.. because they are terrified that this new car they bought, that fills up with electricity is already broken, when its not. Gas cars lose "range" over time and no one cares. Gas cars get less efficient over time and no one cares. The argument normally is " well there is a gas station on every corner so its different". My rebuttal to that is, with an EV your gas station should be at your residence, so total range does not really matter unless you are a traveling salesman or some other person who wants to drive the entire range the car can go every single day, which very few are trying to do.

The person who drives 30 miles a day round trip has absolutely zero to be worried about if the range shows 7 miles "less than it used to" because they dont even know if thats accurate, and are unlikely to drive that entire range at once unless on a trip, and when ON that trip, will be dealing with other variables that effect range, like weather, wind, battery heating, cabin heating, etc... so that rated range number means absolutely ZERO yet people "wail and gnash teeth" about it because they feel batteries are somehow unreliable or something.

@hcdavis3 this is not directed at you btw, I am just on my soapbox right now and typing so I am talking in generalities about the 100s of people who come and make the complaint I said above in the brackets.

Anyway, the TL ; DR version of this rant is, people need to either stop trying to baby the car and just plug it in, let it charge to 90% and leave it there, or, if they want to "manage" the battery, charge to whatever they want and completely ignore the rated range number because its meaningless anyway as a predictor of how far you can actually go.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Thanks. Ya, my drive is 75.1! Ideally I wouldn't have to think about it much but I'm sure I'll be hyper-aware for the first month or two of ownership. I'm also pushing my company to install EV chargers at the office (or I'll just bring the mobile charger and recover some kWh throughout the day). I definitely want to take advantage of all the amazing features of the vehicle (sentry mode, cabin overheat protection, adjusting climate prior to leaving work).

The analysis by @TimothyHW3 is the way to approach this. You’re going to have no problem in LA with these distances is the short answer, and you can use these features as well.

For reference to include in the math:

Sentry uses about 250W. That is about 1.1 mi/hr, or of course 250Wh/hr to use in the math above.
Preheating the car can be costly. Assume in LA about 5-10 miles per day allocated to that. It’s briefly 9kW of energy draw when you start warming the car, but drops from that.

The meter in the car will track all your use - but only when you are not in Park. So you’ll see how the math works very directly when you get the car.

Just for the long term, I would also assume you will lose 10-15% capacity over a year or two (trying to be a bit conservative). That takes your budget to 63kWh minimum. (More likely above 67kWh.). Still plenty of margin for you and lots of people do better than this - again, just kind of worst casing it based on the several worst case reports I have seen. You definitely don’t want to have to get a new car because it does not work for you anymore!

I don’t think there is any evidence that your use case will mean greater capacity loss than average or anything. It is kind of the perfect daily distance for a Tesla.

Do be sure to get the 18” wheels, for maximum efficiency and margin. Though even 19” would work fine. Could even make this drive work in a 3P+.

 

[cubedweller]

Thank you @AlanSubie4Life (and the rest of the thread)! This definitely puts my mind at ease. I can't wait

 

[Big Dog]

sure, no problem. But why not charge to 90%, at least on really cold days (until you get over your range anxiety)?

 

[cubedweller]

sure, no problem. But why not charge to 90%, at least on really cold days (until you get over your range anxiety)?

There's been quite a few posts in this thread already. This has already been addressed and I plan on it. Thanks!

 

[TimothyHW3]

Thanks! I really appreciate the right up/explanation. Again, much more realistic. I wish Tesla was this clear in their marketing.

It is hard for Tesla do be more clear to be honest, because it really depends on your route. If you are going down on a steep heel (even if you climb back) you will be net positive and you might never need to recharge again (there is actually an electric truck that does this somewhere in the swiss alps)

The EPA is more of a combined total, but it can be reached in some conditions. I have done close to or more than the EPA miles on a road trip where I set my auto pilot to around 60/65mph (105km/h) and I ended up using 84% for 430km trip/270miles. So if I do the math that is 320 miles on 100% and there is also 3kWh buffer that Tesla counts towards the 310 miles on top, but it is below 0%(I know, complicated)

The way to achieve EPA range is to try and match your avg consumption to about 230Wh/m

 

[cubedweller]

It is hard for Tesla do be more clear to be honest, because it really depends on your route. If you are going down on a steep heel (even if you climb back) you will be net positive and you might never need to recharge again (there is actually an electric truck that does this somewhere in the swiss alps)

The EPA is more of a combined total, but it can be reached in some conditions. I have done close to or more than the EPA miles on a road trip where I set my auto pilot to around 60/65mph (105km/h) and I ended up using 84% for 430km trip/270miles. So if I do the math that is 320 miles on 100% and there is also 3kWh buffer that Tesla counts towards the 310 miles on top, but it is below 0%(I know, complicated)

The way to achieve EPA range is to try and match your avg consumption to about 230Wh/m

I understand this. I guess I just think they should make it more clear that the quoted EPA ranges are EXTREMELY dependent on circumstance; substantially more so than the variances for a typical ICE MPG rating. Or maybe it isn't? I've never really thought about it but my average MPG on my ICE Kia hasn't changed over the 5+ years I've owned it and has been consistent more/less with the rating on the window sticker when purchased. Instead, Tesla hypes up the range to no-end.

All that said, I'm in awe of what Tesla has accomplished (range included!), so I'm not trying to throw mud. It's just one of the largest purchases most individuals make and full transparency is very much appreciated (especially when you can never reach anyone by phone!).

EDIT: I also feel it's much harder to hit Tesla's EPA target (230Wh/mi) than it is for an ICE car to hit its rated MPG. But this is just my gut instinct from reading these forums while I wait and not from any scientific data point I have. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[TimothyHW3]

No, it is actually the other way around. It is much easier to go below EPA on an EV. Sometimes it requires a little fiddling with the HVAC to get that extra low consumption. On my ICE BMW I was always 20% above rating(which was WLTP and not EPA, but still)
In the winter it was even less efficient.

 

[cubedweller]

No, it is actually the other way around. It is much easier to go below EPA on an EV. Sometimes it requires a little fiddling with the HVAC to get that extra low consumption. On my ICE BMW I was always 20% above rating(which was WLTP and not EPA, but still)
In the winter it was even less efficient.

Interesting. I guess it's a YMMV situation (as always!) because as I said with my ICE I'm consistently inline with MPG ratings. Either way, can't wait to get rid of it and into my M3! Thanks for the discussion and educating me on the math. Much appreciated.