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Can More be Done For the Kids?

MMBTUS

Member
Sep 12, 2018
180
153
Palm Beach County Florida
I am pleased that Elon jumped on the dog mode issue fix and made the feature more safe for our furry friends, garnering some positive press for the company in the process.

Could Tesla show the same technical leadership on baby excess heat deaths? There have been tragic reminders recently of how mainstream ICE producers have failed to address the challenge. I don’t think Teslas are inherently safer or less prone to this type of tragedy than other cars — but suggest they could be made so.

The cabin overheat protection controls are already built in to M3. If, say, the cabin-facing camera were (finally) put to some use, and a great one at that, to detect movement in the rear seat; and if movement detected after the car is put in park were to activate the overheat protection feature for 30-60 minutes; and the Tesla app were to notify the owner that the rear seat appears occupied and cabin temps are being controlled; and repeated the notification every five minutes; wouldn’t that seem to be an effective approach to mitigating the excess heat risk using existing M3 systems? And not out of reach for the Tesla software wizards?

Sure would be a home run for the company, its customers and their kids, no?
 

Cirrus MS100D

Supporting Member
Jul 6, 2017
682
2,039
Pennsylvania, USA
You bring up great points, but bear in mind that the really little ones are in rear facing seats that are difficult to see from the rearview mirror cam (hence why most have the headrest mirrors to see their kids’ faces). The older ones that are forward facing are unlikely to be the ones left behind by mistake (mine wouldn’t ever stop talking during a car ride LOL) though I suppose they could fall asleep and not make a sound.
 
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Kilotango74

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,333
1,128
Palmdale, CA
I am pleased that Elon jumped on the dog mode issue fix and made the feature more safe for our furry friends, garnering some positive press for the company in the process.

Could Tesla show the same technical leadership on baby excess heat deaths? There have been tragic reminders recently of how mainstream ICE producers have failed to address the challenge. I don’t think Teslas are inherently safer or less prone to this type of tragedy than other cars — but suggest they could be made so.

The cabin overheat protection controls are already built in to M3. If, say, the cabin-facing camera were (finally) put to some use, and a great one at that, to detect movement in the rear seat; and if movement detected after the car is put in park were to activate the overheat protection feature for 30-60 minutes; and the Tesla app were to notify the owner that the rear seat appears occupied and cabin temps are being controlled; and repeated the notification every five minutes; wouldn’t that seem to be an effective approach to mitigating the excess heat risk using existing M3 systems? And not out of reach for the Tesla software wizards?

Sure would be a home run for the company, its customers and their kids, no?
Personally I feel that an addition of this type of feature would encourage people to leave their kids unattended in vehicles. I for one am acceptable as hell about these people the “forget” their kids are in the car.
 

C141medic

Active Member
Apr 9, 2016
1,714
1,496
New Jersey
Personally I feel that an addition of this type of feature would encourage people to leave their kids unattended in vehicles. I for one am acceptable as hell about these people the “forget” their kids are in the car.
I watched a nightly news episode about these incidents recently. It’s definitely very tragic. One of the comments was to put something in the back seat like a purse, phone, wallet that you wouldn’t forget if their kids were also back there. Interesting idea but then I thought that’s really crazy. So, people wouldn’t forget to take their valuables with them if they were in the back seat but if their kids were there they’d forget them? I just don’t understand how anyone can be so distracted that they end up leaving their kid in the back of a hot car?
 

Rottenapplr

Member
Apr 6, 2019
992
478
LOS ANGELES
Stress, multiple demands. I can totally relate and understand if the little one is sleeping not making a sound, it’s possible to make that mistake.

I’m new to management and under a lot of stress. I one time “misplace” an amazon package I sold (video game) several months ago, and needed to ship it out. I had no idea ever sealing up the package, driving to the post office, dropping it off to the post office. I kept looking for this package for days and finally when I check the sales section I had sold it, and shipped. I had no memory. Buyer got the game no problem. I had no memory what so ever.

My clinical direction who’s a psychologist says she experiences the same type of experiences and memory lapses.

We all like to know we are better and more capable then what we see on the news but our limits can be reached and our brain can only cope so much.

For those who can’t relate then kudos to you my friend.
 

jsmay311

Active Member
Apr 22, 2016
1,084
1,600
Chicago suburbs
Keeping the camera on for X minutes after a drive would prevent the car from going to sleep during that time. Depending on how many times the car is used per day, this could increase vampire drain significantly. So there would be a trade-off in that respect.
 

Cirrus MS100D

Supporting Member
Jul 6, 2017
682
2,039
Pennsylvania, USA
I also can’t fathom how it could happen, except I can. My wife and I discussed this when we had both our kids and while it was never an issue for us (our kids really didn’t sleep well in the car, unfortunately) we’ve ridden around with some littles that are literally lights out in 30 seconds.

It’s also been the case that new parents can be extremely sleep deprived to the point where it’s probably not safe for them to be operating a motor vehicle or even going to work, but hey, we live in America where maternity/paternity leave is for sissies /s

I had ONE instance when I first started taking my 22mo daughter to daycare for the first time, but only on Thursdays. She was babbling in the back seat and I made a left turn (my usual) instead of the right turn (to daycare) like I was a robot. It only hit me about 30 seconds later. This is a dumb example that resulted in us being 3 minutes late to daycare, but what seems like a huge leap from “woah, whoops!” to “found dead several hours later” is not as big as it seems. If I was a LITTLE more sleep deprived. If my daughter was totally asleep. If I went about my normal M, T, W, F routine, if I was stressed about work, etc. that one wrong turn COULD have gone down that disastrous chain.

It seems insane that this can happen and surely there are demonic cases where this happens ON PURPOSE, but I believe the majority of these cases are tragic accidents that result from human nature.
 

TomServo

Active Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,151
696
Belleville IL
My 2017 GMC Acadia gives me a visual and audible warning to check the back seats when exiting the car after opening and closing the rear doors prior to that drive. This isn't rocket science or obtrusive and I bet it doesn't cost that much. As a grandparent with two little one who travel in car seats, I'm grateful for that extra reminder.
 
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Kilotango74

Active Member
Apr 2, 2019
1,333
1,128
Palmdale, CA
I watched a nightly news episode about these incidents recently. It’s definitely very tragic. One of the comments was to put something in the back seat like a purse, phone, wallet that you wouldn’t forget if their kids were also back there. Interesting idea but then I thought that’s really crazy. So, people wouldn’t forget to take their valuables with them if they were in the back seat but if their kids were there they’d forget them? I just don’t understand how anyone can be so distracted that they end up leaving their kid in the back of a hot car?
My thoughts exactly. There was a study that I just read that related people leaving their kids in the car to forgetting that your coffee is on the roof before driving off. Personally I feel it’s a pretty crappy correlation that compares children to a beverage. I have a stressful job and work up to 70 hrs a week. I forget stuff all the time, like my wallet or keys but forgetting your child is a whole different level. For me personally that’s like leaving the house in your underwear. I don’t care how stressed or tired I am that’s not going to happen.
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,479
3,164
Maine
How about a LATCH sensor that knows there is a seat attached; if yes, then a screen popup when you get in that asks, do you want a reminder when you Park, or asks if you have an infant in back. If you say Yes, then it'll give you an alert when you Park, as well as run the climate for an hour. And, if you don't open the rear doors within 5 minutes of exiting, it'll flash the lights, honk, alert your phone, roll down the windows, automatically. Some variant on the above.

Hmmm...thinking some more, how about a baby crying sensor as well, after you've Parked. If it hears a baby crying, inside the car, to prevent outdoor spoofs, then it'll automatically roll down the back windows.
 

run-the-joules

Active Member
Aug 13, 2017
3,678
6,617
SF Bay
My thoughts exactly. There was a study that I just read that related people leaving their kids in the car to forgetting that your coffee is on the roof before driving off. Personally I feel it’s a pretty crappy correlation that compares children to a beverage. I have a stressful job and work up to 70 hrs a week. I forget stuff all the time, like my wallet or keys but forgetting your child is a whole different level. For me personally that’s like leaving the house in your underwear. I don’t care how stressed or tired I am that’s not going to happen.

Every single person whose kid died in a hot car thought the same thing. You aren't incapable of doing it, nor is anyone else. It just requires the right set of circumstances.
 

Cirrus MS100D

Supporting Member
Jul 6, 2017
682
2,039
Pennsylvania, USA
My thoughts exactly. There was a study that I just read that related people leaving their kids in the car to forgetting that your coffee is on the roof before driving off. Personally I feel it’s a pretty crappy correlation that compares children to a beverage. I have a stressful job and work up to 70 hrs a week. I forget stuff all the time, like my wallet or keys but forgetting your child is a whole different level. For me personally that’s like leaving the house in your underwear. I don’t care how stressed or tired I am that’s not going to happen.
Gotta disagree here. This clearly isn’t something that happens often, given the amount of times this is reported every year, and it’s great knowing this is never going to happen to you, nor is it statistically likely to happen to anybody else. It’s like saying “pedal misapplication can’t happen to me” because I know where the pedals are. Same for me, until it isn’t.

Every kid and parental situation is different and you’ve gotta respect that. Some newborns sleep wonderfully at night. Some parents go all in on sleep training. Some babies just. Don’t. Effing. Sleep. Going through weeks to months of interrupted sleep and outright sleep deprivation is unarguably going to have an impact. Changing a routine that you had done for years is going to have an impact.

I believe all new parents only want the best for their kids and still screw up from time to time. There are a LOT of links in the chain that go from “oops” to “they’re dead” and only one of them needs to break, but sometimes, it just happens.

Also, about the “warning messages” on the dashboard type of stuff, I feel like this will wind up on the “Are you sure you want to delete? Yes/No?” ignore list. It’d almost be better to do the RFID style “your baby is now more than 20’ away from you” alert that you have to dismiss consciously.
 

eCharcoal

Member
Aug 31, 2017
262
248
Chicagoland
I am pleased that Elon jumped on the dog mode issue fix and made the feature more safe for our furry friends, garnering some positive press for the company in the process.

Could Tesla show the same technical leadership on baby excess heat deaths? There have been tragic reminders recently of how mainstream ICE producers have failed to address the challenge. I don’t think Teslas are inherently safer or less prone to this type of tragedy than other cars — but suggest they could be made so.

The cabin overheat protection controls are already built in to M3. If, say, the cabin-facing camera were (finally) put to some use, and a great one at that, to detect movement in the rear seat; and if movement detected after the car is put in park were to activate the overheat protection feature for 30-60 minutes; and the Tesla app were to notify the owner that the rear seat appears occupied and cabin temps are being controlled; and repeated the notification every five minutes; wouldn’t that seem to be an effective approach to mitigating the excess heat risk using existing M3 systems? And not out of reach for the Tesla software wizards?

Sure would be a home run for the company, its customers and their kids, no?
I agree. Funny I brought this up exactly a month ago and most of the replies were sarcastic and negative. Something like one is not qualified to be a parent if you can leave your kid behind. This is a nice feature to have but no one should rely on it.
Feature request: Child left behind reminder
 

Nocturnal

Supporting Member
Aug 23, 2018
6,324
32,367
In the middle
That was my thought exactly. The internal camera and/or seat pressure sensors should engage the AC and send an alert to the app to alert the owner. If it's a false alarm the owner could override it.

At worst it would provide evidence for the people who do that on purpose to kill their kids. (F those people, of all the cruel ways to kill somebody....monsters)
Personally I feel that an addition of this type of feature would encourage people to leave their kids unattended in vehicles. I for one am acceptable as hell about these people the “forget” their kids are in the car.
Disagree. If people want to leave their kids in the car they already have many ways to do so, while attempting to keep them safe. This wouldn't encourage anyone.

Also to point out, the parents that leave their kids in the car, that really can happen to anyone. It's not just bad parents, plenty of genuinely good/intelligent parents have some brain fart caused by lack of sleep etc. and the worst happens.
To a certain point, it's great that Elon and team think about these things, and make some of these improvements.

BUT.....

when did it become a car company's moral obligation to do menial parental tasks? Take care of your own kids. That's not Tesla's job.
That is an empty platitude that could be applied to any safety feature.


Parenting 101:

Abort , Retry, Fail

'brought to you by the generation that didn't have bike helmets, safety harnesses & unleaded stuff'
You mean the ones that didn't die right? This is the worst sort of logical fallacy. Survivor's bias.

It was some fifty years later – in 1986 – that the United States formally banned lead as a gasoline additive. By that time, according to some estimates, so much lead had been deposited into soils, streets, building surfaces, that an estimated 68 million children would register toxic levels of lead absorption and some 5,000 American adults would die annually of lead-induced heart disease.

Who needs that lame safety stuff anyway right?
 

ModelNforNerd

Active Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,095
3,916
Norway, ME
That was my thought exactly. The internal camera and/or seat pressure sensors should engage the AC and send an alert to the app to alert the owner. If it's a false alarm the owner could override it.

At worst it would provide evidence for the people who do that on purpose to kill their kids. (F those people, of all the cruel ways to kill somebody....monsters)

Disagree. If people want to leave their kids in the car they already have many ways to do so, while attempting to keep them safe. This wouldn't encourage anyone.

Also to point out, the parents that leave their kids in the car, that really can happen to anyone. It's not just bad parents, plenty of genuinely good/intelligent parents have some brain fart caused by lack of sleep etc. and the worst happens.
That is an empty platitude that could be applied to any safety feature.



You mean the ones that didn't die right? This is the worst sort of logical fallacy. Survivor's bias.

It was some fifty years later – in 1986 – that the United States formally banned lead as a gasoline additive. By that time, according to some estimates, so much lead had been deposited into soils, streets, building surfaces, that an estimated 68 million children would register toxic levels of lead absorption and some 5,000 American adults would die annually of lead-induced heart disease.

Who needs that lame safety stuff anyway right?




An active safety feature like a seat belt, ABS, airbags, etc are one thing.....

but the NHTSA isn't going to get into the job of keeping things safe inside the vehicle when it's not in operation. That's why there's no car alarm regulation.




Why does someone else always have to do everything? Whatever happened to personal responsibility? The government and car manufacturers are some of the LAST people on Earth you should be depending on to keep your kid safe when the car is not in motion.

If you can't function without a a car beeping at you, to, you know...check on the human life you created's current physical whereabouts and well-being, you maybe should not be spending money on a Tesla anyway, you should be in Parenting classes with that money, before your negligence kills someone.
 

ModelNforNerd

Active Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,095
3,916
Norway, ME
Except they already do, take locking steering columns as an example...
https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/communications/pdf/VehicleTheftPrevention.pdf


still doesn't cover ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY REMOVING THE KID FROM THE MF'ING CAR.



Stop asking for the government and Tesla to run your lives. What happens if someday, one of them really DOES decide to step in and take over what you can't handle?\


(also, I love that the very title of your linked PDF shows that it wasn't about the kids...... unless you named your child vehicle theft prevention)
 
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