And NEITHER IS IT A CAR COMPANY'S OBLIGATION TO PROVIDE ARCADE GAMES!!!! But they do it - as for me I'd rather have an alert for children than ANY game - surely some engineering talent could be spared from "farts" to saving lives.
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Can More be Done For the Kids?
- Thread starter MMBTUS
- Start date
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
I guess I'll just have to live with the stigma of being a monster who doesn't want kids to die, but wants parents to step back from digital distractions, and parent again.
HOW F-ING DARE I!!!!
I hope no children die in a hot car. Shame on anyone who put the words in my mouth or misinterpreted in that way, but I get it, for you to be right, I have to be absolutely wrong, so making me out to be a monster, with no grey area left open for interpretation, is the easier play.
Do any of you work in politics?
Here's a scenario to ponder about how our brains work:
How many of you ALSO have an ICE at home? After driving the Tesla for weeks at a time, then getting into an ICE, how weird are the driving dynamics? The controls? The chimes? You've put it in Park and tried to get out and walk away with the keys still in and engine running, haven't you?
Now imagine you've been in the Tesla exclusively for 3 weeks, and your brain is attuned to it, but you need to take your spouse's ICE today, with kiddo in the back. Tesla instituted a backseat safety chime 3 months ago, and you love it. It's reminded you a few times to get your kid out of the back.
It's a warm August day, and you get all the way to work after a PITA commute, and you go inside, because hey...no chime, right?
Whose fault will it be? Will it be yours? Will it be Tesla's?
I'm not against it. I'm against the complacency it will breed with parents who may already be susceptible to distraction. In my scenario, I'd almost argue that the feature would indirectly be MORE dangerous, because you wouldn't have it in another vehicle.
Call it Devil's Advocate, call me a monster, I'm just being realistic about human nature.
HOW F-ING DARE I!!!!
I hope no children die in a hot car. Shame on anyone who put the words in my mouth or misinterpreted in that way, but I get it, for you to be right, I have to be absolutely wrong, so making me out to be a monster, with no grey area left open for interpretation, is the easier play.
Do any of you work in politics?
Here's a scenario to ponder about how our brains work:
How many of you ALSO have an ICE at home? After driving the Tesla for weeks at a time, then getting into an ICE, how weird are the driving dynamics? The controls? The chimes? You've put it in Park and tried to get out and walk away with the keys still in and engine running, haven't you?
Now imagine you've been in the Tesla exclusively for 3 weeks, and your brain is attuned to it, but you need to take your spouse's ICE today, with kiddo in the back. Tesla instituted a backseat safety chime 3 months ago, and you love it. It's reminded you a few times to get your kid out of the back.
It's a warm August day, and you get all the way to work after a PITA commute, and you go inside, because hey...no chime, right?
Whose fault will it be? Will it be yours? Will it be Tesla's?
I'm not against it. I'm against the complacency it will breed with parents who may already be susceptible to distraction. In my scenario, I'd almost argue that the feature would indirectly be MORE dangerous, because you wouldn't have it in another vehicle.
Call it Devil's Advocate, call me a monster, I'm just being realistic about human nature.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
To be fair, we're talking about a pretty serious mistake............
forgetting to use your blinker on a lane change <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< leaving your kid in the car in the August sun.
If you can possibly be in this situation (I can't, no kids), use your phone. Set a reminder to check for your kid that goes off every time the phone disconnects from the car. I know the iPhone has this functionality and I would guess Android does as well, if it doesn't, get an iPhone.
Cirrus MS100D
Member
I’m just astounded by the “slippery slope” arguments being made against something like this. Do you think having seatbelts and airbags and car seats makes the average person a more aggressive and dangerous driver? (There are studies on this...) Do you now floor it when backing up at a playground because you’ve got a backup camera and sensors? (Which were mandated because kids were getting run over...) Do you not make your kids wear helmets when biking, snowboarding, playing sports? Do you use an ungrounded GFCI outlet with your hair dryer by the bathroom sink? Do you think installing window locks in a high-rise and anchoring furniture and TVs that could tip over and crush a kid is the “nanny state” reaching too far or interfering with Darwinism?
I HATE when people play the “have you actually had kids?” card, but I’d be curious about the pro/con responses on this thread and folks who have kids, because it’s just hard to wrap my mind around the “you need to learn how to parent better!” argument when it has literally nothing to do with leaving a child in a hot car.
There are lousy parents out there who are going to continue to make bad decisions and put their kids in danger and a “hey, you might’ve left Jr. in the back seat to cook...” alert isn’t going to change them (though it COULD result in the child not dying). There are idiots who misuse AutoPilot and sue Tesla when they crash, but by your logic, that means the rest of us who are responsible shouldn’t have the option of using it responsibly to make our highway travel less stressful and arguably a bit safer?
Likewise, some sort of “alert: kid maybe in back seat” is not going to make mom of the year who is already devoting all her time and energy into raising the best kid she can complacent when she goes to the grocery store and never check the back seat “because there’s an app that does it for her.”
Too many people in this thread are playing both sides of the coin and have decided to draw an arbitrary line where certain technologies are OK but once you stray into “keep the kids safe” zone, then all bets are off as <whatever it is> is clearly the responsibility of the parent and any technological improvement is the government stepping in for bad parenting.
I HATE when people play the “have you actually had kids?” card, but I’d be curious about the pro/con responses on this thread and folks who have kids, because it’s just hard to wrap my mind around the “you need to learn how to parent better!” argument when it has literally nothing to do with leaving a child in a hot car.
There are lousy parents out there who are going to continue to make bad decisions and put their kids in danger and a “hey, you might’ve left Jr. in the back seat to cook...” alert isn’t going to change them (though it COULD result in the child not dying). There are idiots who misuse AutoPilot and sue Tesla when they crash, but by your logic, that means the rest of us who are responsible shouldn’t have the option of using it responsibly to make our highway travel less stressful and arguably a bit safer?
Likewise, some sort of “alert: kid maybe in back seat” is not going to make mom of the year who is already devoting all her time and energy into raising the best kid she can complacent when she goes to the grocery store and never check the back seat “because there’s an app that does it for her.”
Too many people in this thread are playing both sides of the coin and have decided to draw an arbitrary line where certain technologies are OK but once you stray into “keep the kids safe” zone, then all bets are off as <whatever it is> is clearly the responsibility of the parent and any technological improvement is the government stepping in for bad parenting.
I don't see you as a monster. I completely agree with your point and I see it the same. People just don't seem to see the bigger picture and what will this actually cause.
AP showed us already what happens when people rely on technology when they shouldn't and this would be even worse.
Regardless, its a dead topic as those that don't see this angle will always play the "safe lives" card without realising that it might actually get much worse.
AP showed us already what happens when people rely on technology when they shouldn't and this would be even worse.
Regardless, its a dead topic as those that don't see this angle will always play the "safe lives" card without realising that it might actually get much worse.
Lhshockey24
Member
Not enough time to read all the responses but I believe some manufacturers have warnings to check the back seat whenever they detect a buckle but not an unbuckle, or a rear door open before driving but not after.
GMC’s Rear Seat Reminder Reminds Parents To Check The Back Seat
There are actually more backup collisions now then ever. If it is just a camera and not sensors, people still hit things in reverse. Thankfully it is mostly not children. (but I do know someone that backed over and killed their child even with a rear camera. It is an unspeakable tragedy.)
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
You can rely on a car company to get the technology right. (3 months maybe, 6 months definitely)
I'll rely on myself.
I'll rely on myself.
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
The parents of dead children accidentally left in a hot vehicle relied on themselves too.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
That's a hell of an implication.
But I'll flip it back on you......your parents didn't have a backseat warning chime. How ever did you make it?
Cirrus MS100D
Member
Good call. And THEIR parents didn’t have vaccines. If they were better parents and didn’t let your grandpa Joe go over to Paully Polio’s house, maybe things would be different, but vaccines are no replacement for proper parenting.
#vaccinescausekidstobeleftinhotcars
#vaccinescausekidstobeleftinhotcars
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
I love this conversation. It is an amazing microcosm of what is wrong with discourse in 2019 America.
I am a monster. I am stupid. I am wrong. My parents were dumb.
All because I don't want kids to die in cars because their parents over-rely on a chime that may or may not work.
May God have mercy on my soul.
Cirrus MS100D
Member
To bring this back around to Tesla again, I have a question for all those “anti warning about kids left in the back”:
Automatic Emergency Braking - Why does this feature exist? How could you be SO inattentive as a driver to require something like this? This isn’t “I left my credit car at the bar last night” you are literally driving a 5000 pound death machine capable of accelerating extremely quickly and sustaining very high speeds.
YOU are responsible for the operation of your motor vehicle at all times. I don’t want to hear any BS about “I was tired” or “I was momentarily distracted” or “I never thought it would happen to me.” You chose to buy and operate a car, nobody forced you to do it. Tesla should not have to waste valuable engineering resources on your momentary carelessness. Darwin says you made a bad choice and to hell with you and <whatever you hit.> I want you to disable AEB right now because it’s causing YOU to be a complacent driver.
Back in my day we didn’t have AEB and none of my parents EVER rear ended anybody, therefore, this technology signifies the downfall and laziness of all humankind.
Automatic Emergency Braking - Why does this feature exist? How could you be SO inattentive as a driver to require something like this? This isn’t “I left my credit car at the bar last night” you are literally driving a 5000 pound death machine capable of accelerating extremely quickly and sustaining very high speeds.
YOU are responsible for the operation of your motor vehicle at all times. I don’t want to hear any BS about “I was tired” or “I was momentarily distracted” or “I never thought it would happen to me.” You chose to buy and operate a car, nobody forced you to do it. Tesla should not have to waste valuable engineering resources on your momentary carelessness. Darwin says you made a bad choice and to hell with you and <whatever you hit.> I want you to disable AEB right now because it’s causing YOU to be a complacent driver.
Back in my day we didn’t have AEB and none of my parents EVER rear ended anybody, therefore, this technology signifies the downfall and laziness of all humankind.
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
Well, none of our vehicles had air conditioning, so the windows were always down when it was hot. Come to think of it, we didn't have seatbelts or child seats either. But does any of that diminish the importance of utilizing safety equipment? Warning chimes, buzzers, messages, etc are a form of safety equipment.
Safety equipment is usually not necessary in order to survive, but it does save lives.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
Thanks for proving my point, while also invalidating my point.
It's like being a non-Democrat in MA all over again.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
What happens when it doesn't work?
Your heirs sue Tesla.
Or in this scenario, you sue Tesla to be compensated for your negligence. Stop trying to say that I've said ALL TECHNOLOGY IS BAD. I own a Tesla, FFS.
I'm saying over-reliance on it is bad.
Cirrus MS100D
Member
So where does your slippery slope end, since the “rest of us” can’t grasp where you decree it should end?
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I love this conversation. It is an amazing microcosm of what is wrong with discourse in 2019 America.
I am a monster. I am stupid. I am wrong. My parents were dumb.
All because I don't want kids to die in cars because their parents over-rely on a chime that may or may not work.
May God have mercy on my soul.
It sounds like you would be just fine with a reminder if a study had been done showing it did not increase effective complacency (meaning parents don’t check the backseat because of the reminder AND also don’t pay attention to valid reminders, meaning they leave their child in the hot car) in a significant enough way to offset the benefits. If that’s the case, I think everyone is on the same page - you have no problem with the reminder, you just want to be absolutely sure it doesn’t make things worse - which seems completely reasonable.
EDIT: Personally, I think that it is very unlikely that it would make things worse, since BOTH things would have to occur - but there are certainly specific implementation details that have to be looked at carefully to make SURE there is not a paradoxical increase in heat deaths. Typically such studies are done in cases where risk compensation can occur (seat belt use, ABS, backup cameras (?) )...might require empirical studies though, meaning the feature would have to be rolled out - then studied.
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