Can Tesla add Radar Back at a Later Date?

[Lrmatthews18]

Hi All,

I’m new to this site, but I have been reading the threads and watching YouTube like crazy. I ordered my LR MY on 5/23 at Tyson’s Corner, VA.

I’m assuming the MY I test drove and fell in love with had radar. My question is, what happens if this Tesla Vision doesn’t get better, can Tesla retrofit our cars with radar at a later date? Or is that too hard to do?

 

[Tam]

...what happens if this Tesla Vision doesn’t get better, can Tesla retrofit our cars with radar at a later date?

Technically, it's doable. Economically, Tesla might not want to lose money for a free retrofit.

Legally, if you didn't approve of what Tesla did, you should not pay. Once you paid for a radarless car, that meant you consented to its configuration. So, I don't think Tesla would retrofit because of the legal issue.

However, due to public relations and reputations, Tesla might be pressured to do it.

Or is that too hard to do?

It's hard to do in terms of financial impact and labor hours for Tesla. Otherwise, it's quite easy for an individual do-it-yourselfer.

 

[glide]

Hi All,

I’m new to this site, but I have been reading the threads and watching YouTube like crazy. I ordered my LR MY on 5/23 at Tyson’s Corner, VA.

I’m assuming the MY I test drove and fell in love with had radar. My question is, what happens if this Tesla Vision doesn’t get better, can Tesla retrofit our cars with radar at a later date? Or is that too hard to do?

They won’t retrofit radar. What you get is what you get.

 

[Rice&Curry]

Bases on past history, Tesla is unlikely to retrofit Radars on M3 and MY , Elon has clearly indicated that in future all development will be focussed on camera/vision with better ML/AI algorithms

 

[WADan]

Regardless, you should assume that Tesla is not going to retrofit.
And, I would trust that Tesla has done enough internal testing to be sure that they could do without radar. Rolling out the software to owners would allow them to fine-tune further.

 

[Lrmatthews18]

Makes sense. Thank you for your responses.

 

[DayTrippin]

Model 3 & Y owners were first ones to get shafted with radar removal and be the beta testers. I finally resolved myself to the fact it isn't coming back. I just hope they don't gut the MS I have on order before I get it as well.

 

[Rice&Curry]

My guess is even if you have a radar on MS, giong forward Tesla will not invest in improving the radar capabilities. They have chosen to go with vision, the logic being human beings make majority of their decisions based on vision, hearing and may be smell , and vision is the most dominant sensor while driving. Let us see how this plays out ...

 

[glide]

My guess is even if you have a radar on MS, giong forward Tesla will not invest in improving the radar capabilities. They have chosen to go with vision, the logic being human beings make majority of their decisions based on vision, hearing and may be smell , and vision is the most dominant sensor while driving. Let us see how this plays out ...

They aren’t going to be putting parts they don’t intend on using in the S/X.

The 3/Y owners are guinea pigs for this latest cost-cutting experiment. The flagship vehicles will continue to have, and make use of, radar.

 

[Fakedevil]

I actually think if tesla mean what they said, radar will phase out across all the cars new or old. The issue is they need more data of radar less driving, ie if they want to accelerate their goal, it would mean to disable the radar too. Else they would have to spend more to maintain 2 stack of driving logic which in my mind would be pointless...

Right??

 

[Fraslin]

That is exactly right - their release on Tesla Vision even states that:

Why aren’t Model S and Model X transitioning now?
Model 3 and Model Y are our higher volume vehicles. Transitioning them to Tesla Vision first allows us to analyze a large volume of real-world data in a short amount of time, which ultimately speeds up the roll-out of features based on Tesla Vision.

Radar will be going away on all vehicles and even if a car has it it will be shut off so they don't have to maintain two code bases

 

[Jjrss]

Radar will be going away on all vehicles and even if a car has it it will be shut off so they don't have to maintain two code bases

This is an unfounded rumor, worthy of a massive class action lawsuit if it ever comes to fruition.

 

[Fakedevil]

This is an unfounded rumor, worthy of a massive class action lawsuit if it ever comes to fruition.

I don't think its a rumor, its on their site. Transitioning to Tesla Vision
"All new Model S and Model X, as well as all vehicles built for markets outside of North America, will continue to be equipped with radar and will have radar-supported Autopilot functionality until we determine the appropriate time to transition those vehicles to Tesla Vision."
And you already see Elon tout the FSD as pure vision in the next update too.
"One more production release of pure vision this week, then FSD beta 9 a week or two later. V9.0 FSD is also pure vision. Foundational improvements are immense."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1401621271943815169

The truth is once the 3 and Y flood their data with just vision only data, the radar specific algorithm will just slowly degrade to the point where it would be better for owners to just use the Tesla vision, because at least in that way, we are all contributing to the greater good.
The only course of action to stop it is if the new 3 and Y just proof to be a failure and they have to backtrack their initial commitment.

 

[Jjrss]

I don't think its a rumor, its on their site. Transitioning to Tesla Vision
"All new Model S and Model X, as well as all vehicles built for markets outside of North America, will continue to be equipped with radar and will have radar-supported Autopilot functionality until we determine the appropriate time to transition those vehicles to Tesla Vision."
And you already see Elon tout the FSD as pure vision in the next update too.
"One more production release of pure vision this week, then FSD beta 9 a week or two later. V9.0 FSD is also pure vision. Foundational improvements are immense."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1401621271943815169

The truth is once the 3 and Y flood their data with just vision only data, the radar specific algorithm will just slowly degrade to the point where it would be better for owners to just use the Tesla vision, because at least in that way, we are all contributing to the greater good.
The only course of action to stop it is if the new 3 and Y just proof to be a failure and they have to backtrack their initial commitment.

Or, thats what they're trying to sell you in order to keep selling cars without radar during a parts shortage.

And if Tesla vision fails to be as safe in ALL weather/climates, they'll abandon Tesla Vision and revert to radar.

Its a big hurdle, and they have a lot to prove. They also need a beta testing community brave enough to take ownership of a less safe car than they test drove.

 

[KiloV]

Or, thats what they're trying to sell you in order to keep selling cars without radar during a parts shortage.

And if Tesla vision fails to be as safe in ALL weather/climates, they'll abandon Tesla Vision and revert to radar.

Its a big hurdle, and they have a lot to prove. They also need a beta testing community brave enough to take ownership of a less safe car than they test drove.

Tesla has always been at war with Eastasia.

 

[Jjrss]

Tesla has always been at war with Eastasia.

Eastasia is still getting Radar

 

[Fraslin]

Radar is going to go away especially in the US, don't think this a rumor or unfounded at all and they are stating it as such. Elon called radar a "crutch" on their earnings call. “I think with the elimination of radar, we’re finally getting rid of one of the last crutches. Radar was really — it was making up for some of the shortfalls of vision, but this is not good. You actually just need vision to work.”

And
Work on the Tesla’s Full Self-Driving (FSD) program continues and the next major installment, Beta version 9, will debut in a week or two. The big news here is it will adopt Tesla’s ‘Pure Vision’ approach (it will no longer need the radar sensors to work) and, from what we understand, even vehicles that came equipped with radar sensors from the factory will no longer need them for FSD to work.

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[GeezerSquid]

Trust in Elon!! If he says radar isn't needed, then it's not needed! JMHO!!! (but I'm right)

 

[Jjrss]

Trust in Elon!! If he says radar isn't needed, then it's not needed! JMHO!!! (but I'm right)

Elon knows everything, because he has the data!

Just don't look behind the wizard's curtain! Have faith. Believe his Vision is safer because his interpretation of thousands of hours of data must be true in all aspects!

 

[SantiagoDraco]

What will cause Tesla to retrofit this is if there is a safety issue... where their "promise" of a safe vehicle WITHOUT radar proves to be wrong... and the lawsuits happen.

I simply do not believe that Pure Vision will prove to be sufficient for dynamic collision avoidance, predictive braking types of scenarios. The cost to Tesla of lawsuits due to this could be huge because it can be shown, quite easily, that Tesla made a decision to meet production commitments by removing a safety feature.

Unless they pull some magic this isn't going to go well for Tesla long term.