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Can Tesla add Radar Back at a Later Date?

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so far, all I've read and seen about the vision-only cars is: you dont want one of those if you have a choice for a radar equipped car.

has anyone found ANY data that shows vision-only is in any way, better?

I cant' find even a story online that says the driver found that the vision car was as good or better than the previous fusion based cars.

so far, lots of talk from tesla, but as I suspected, vision alone aint gonna cut it.

nice cost-savings elon, but these are cars and where you saved cost - you should not have dared to reduce sensor array hardware! increase, not decrease, you idiot

yes, I'm calling elon an idiot, now. he's had the last year and I see no improvement and only regressions.

fire him. he's useless and stops tesla from being all it really COULD be.
 
IF tesla took vision diversity seriously (redundant and different angled cameras to avoid blinding in sun), IF they had defrosters and wipers on the cameras and if they had ND filters to help with dyn range issues, and ALSO extreme lighting all around to aid the vision, then maybe we could talk about vision being pretty capable.

in its state today on the m3, no, its a sick joke.

none of what I listed exists on teslas. the only redundancy is on the front cam cluster and that's not redundancy since they are all different cameras and focal points. that does help but they need more of that and all around the car.

finally, the notion of flashing your brights to extend your vision distance - that's a complete non-starter. glad they didn't try this 10 or 20 years ago when flashing your lights was known to trigger road rage and even gang hit-attempts (yeah, ritual membership in some gangs would mean that anyone who flashes their lights at you could be an involuntary subject of a ritual initiation).

you dont want to just flash randos on the road; not then and not now. and yet, tesla vision turns on the brights when it damned well feels like it, and way more than non-vision cars, at night.

how much proof do you elon-fans need? will anything ever get you to stop drinking the kool aid?
 
finally, the notion of flashing your brights to extend your vision distance - that's a complete non-starter. glad they didn't try this 10 or 20 years ago when flashing your lights was known to trigger road rage and even gang hit-attempts (yeah, ritual membership in some gangs would mean that anyone who flashes their lights at you could be an involuntary subject of a ritual initiation).

You don't really believe that old wives tale do you?
 
I’ll paraphrase because you’re lazy. Basically it says they can add/change/remove features at will.

You could *not* install software updates. But we have all seen how that goes for people trying to avoid batterygate/chargegate.
Page?

Direct reference to disabling hardware safety features without owner consent?

All radarless vehicles delivered by Tesla, explicity require the user to sign a consent form. This was in addition to AP beta warnings, and FSD consent forms. My Radar enabled AP only, has provided me no such form to sign away liability.

"If" Tesla does move forward with fleet wide Vision Only, the owner will have to decide if they want to keep old SW with Radar, sell their car, or accept additional risk that holds Tesla harmless.
 
Page?

Direct reference to disabling hardware safety features without owner consent?

All radarless vehicles delivered by Tesla, explicity require the user to sign a consent form. This was in addition to AP beta warnings, and FSD consent forms. My Radar enabled AP only, has provided me no such form to sign away liability.

"If" Tesla does move forward with fleet wide Vision Only, the owner will have to decide if they want to keep old SW with Radar, sell their car, or accept additional risk that holds Tesla harmless.
I can’t tell if you’re really this lazy or just being arrogant. But either way, here you go:

And before you go saying, “but doooooood, radar iz hardware!”, yeah we know. But the autopilot software can override it.

11.) Software​

We use software in connection with the Service. We own or have rights to all such software and you do not acquire any rights in such software other than the right to use such software as reasonably necessary for you to use the Service as permitted in your Terms & Conditions. We may update or modify the software contained in your Vehicle from time to time, and we may do this remotely without notifying you or seeking your consent. These software updates and modifications may affect or erase data that you have previously stored on the equipment in your Vehicle (such as specific route or destination information). We are not responsible for any lost or erased (or otherwise affected) data and you are solely responsible for the data that you may have downloaded, uploaded, transmitted or otherwise stored from, to, on or through the equipment or Service.
You understand that software available is dependent on vehicle configuration and geographical region, which may affect your access to the Service and/or any of its features.
 
I can’t tell if you’re really this lazy or just being arrogant. But either way, here you go:

And before you go saying, “but doooooood, radar iz hardware!”, yeah we know. But the autopilot software can override it.

11.) Software​

We use software in connection with the Service. We own or have rights to all such software and you do not acquire any rights in such software other than the right to use such software as reasonably necessary for you to use the Service as permitted in your Terms & Conditions. We may update or modify the software contained in your Vehicle from time to time, and we may do this remotely without notifying you or seeking your consent. These software updates and modifications may affect or erase data that you have previously stored on the equipment in your Vehicle (such as specific route or destination information). We are not responsible for any lost or erased (or otherwise affected) data and you are solely responsible for the data that you may have downloaded, uploaded, transmitted or otherwise stored from, to, on or through the equipment or Service.
You understand that software available is dependent on vehicle configuration and geographical region, which may affect your access to the Service and/or any of its features.
But doooood. Its a HW safety feature ;) legally speaking, that section is specific to SW and User Data that may be lost during upgrades, and Tesla isn't liable for any lost user data.

Please address the actual argument. "Owner must consent to added risk"

Imagine if Tesla decided to go radar only, and turned off your headlights via SW.
 
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But doooood. Its a HW safety feature ;) legally speaking, that section is specific to SW and User Data that may be lost during upgrades, and Tesla isn't liable for any lost user data.

Please address the actual argument. "Owner must consent to added risk"

Imagine if Tesla decided to go radar only, and turned off your headlights via SW.
Now you’re just being ridiculous in addition to being lazy. Bottom line, they can disable your radar at will. Your “acceptance” is downloading the software update.
 
No, they cant. They'd be part of a class action lawsuit in 5 seconds if they did. You have to consent, so they can be held harmless. That is how lawyers save corporations from lawsuits.
Most Tesla owners haven’t opted out of arbitration, so class action is not possible

26D6BF32-0A31-4E6D-9C73-6CA257141466.png
 
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Is it possible to go back to original question of if radar module was added, would the car use it, or would software ignore it. Is there any realistic way to force a Model Y to use Lidar or Radar?
As another member already mentioned, they were able to retrofit and activate radar. It is not something most people will be able to do themselves though. And if Tesla were to disable radar on all vehicles it would not work anymore. Lidar has never been supported/used, so no to lidar.
 
So you have revealed your ignorance towards how software licenses and the legal system work all in one post. Bravo.
Right. My Radar still works, and probably always will. Thats not ignorance, thats factual until they shut it off. They "could" have and probably "should" have disabled it if Vision Only was safer

Think about the 2021 total year delivery numbers for all models with and without Radar. Tesla would have had to come up with over 500~600k radars to stay in business after May if each car kept getting them. Over 90% of all produced and delivered models was 3/Y. They cant get the parts, so Vision-Only was rushed out, was already proven to not be as capable as Radar enabled (hence the speed/distance handicaps). They've taken more risk to provide similar performance.
 
Right. My Radar still works, and probably always will. Thats not ignorance, thats factual until they shut it off. They "could" have and probably "should" have disabled it if Vision Only was safer

Think about the 2021 total year delivery numbers for all models with and without Radar. Tesla would have had to come up with over 500~600k radars to stay in business after May if each car kept getting them. Over 90% of all produced and delivered models was 3/Y. They cant get the parts, so Vision-Only was rushed out, was already proven to not be as capable as Radar enabled (hence the speed/distance handicaps). They've taken more risk to provide similar performance.
I did some really lazy fact finding on the internet, since I couldnt find time to go to a library and Tesla doesnt provide supplier info all that well... as Abe Lincoln is famously quoted as saying, "If it's on the internet, it must be true"

But as far as I can tell, the radar sensor was none other than: Continental’s "ARS410"

This is a terrible resource, dont trust it:
Let's talk radar!

Also this news, very inconvenient, in Oct 2020, Tesla was rumored to be looking into replacing it with a higher definition "4D" radar from another supplier (IE doubling down on radar fusion, pre-chip shortage news):
Tesla is adding a new ‘4D’ radar with twice the range for self-driving

And then... shortages hit the entire auto industry, including Continental that supplied sensors to many many many auto manufacturers... horribly inconvenient time line (March 09, 2021) Continental expects chip shortage to drag on for months

"He said the general situation will ease in the course of the second quarter. However, in some areas he expects the shortage to drag on for the entire year."

Now imagine Tesla, wanting to sell 900K Model Y/3 in 2021, finding out they cant get enough radar sensors... do you stop production in April, maybe get to June with what the supplier might be able to get you, hoping after the 2nd half of the year the semiconductor shortage is alleviated? Or double down as they say, on some "good'nough" for the lawyers "Vision-Only" buzzwordalogy.

And that "4D" radar... looks really really realllllllly cool (slated to be ready for the road 1st quarter 2022, too early in development for Tesla to "pivot" from Continental’s shortage):
Could Radar be Part of the Future of Self-Driving Cars? | Digital Trends

Reaaaalllllly cool:


If Tesla does pivot back to radar, it will be something worth waiting for in the Model Y/3 that has it active.
 
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No, if its coded out of the neural nets there's not much anyone can do about that. But personally I believe they wont ever be turning off radar entirely - the sensor has merit in the safety suite. For now it is very much used and greatly improves performance in my experience.
I would go back to the question, then, of can the radar unit be retrofitted, and would that cause the car to set itself to “radar=yes” or is more hacking required for the car to know that the radar module is there? Seems like acquiring a single radar unit not that hard and would increase the measure of safety substantially on my future Model Y
 
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I would go back to the question, then, of can the radar unit be retrofitted, and would that cause the car to set itself to “radar=yes” or is more hacking required for the car to know that the radar module is there? Seems like acquiring a single radar unit not that hard and would increase the measure of safety substantially on my future Model Y
I believe someone here has done it and it did involve some hacking. Search the forum.
 
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