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Can Tesla offer AP HW upgrade to AP2 on AP1 cars ?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by nishT, Dec 6, 2016.

?

How much are you willing to pay to upgrade your AP1 HW to AP2 if offered ?

  1. $5000

    17 vote(s)
    22.7%
  2. $5000 - $10000

    19 vote(s)
    25.3%
  3. $10000 - $15000

    13 vote(s)
    17.3%
  4. Not interested

    26 vote(s)
    34.7%
  1. nishT

    nishT Member

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    Not sure if there already a thread about this discussion. Just wanted to see what everyone think about this option
    Do you think its possible for Tesla to upgrade current AP1 HW to AP2 for a decent price ?
     
  2. Doubletap67

    Doubletap67 Member

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    I'm a newb so I'll reply before someone eats you alive. Yes there are roughly one million threads on this question, and every one concludes it's not possible (as Tesla has stated unequivocally). The cost would be more than a new car, apparently.

    Cheers,
    D.
     
    • Like x 1
  3. Zaphod

    Zaphod Galaxy President (former)

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    Well, anything is possible. Better way to state it is not advantageous or cost effective to do it (at this point in time).

    OP, and yes there are numerous threads already on this.
     
  4. rw86347

    rw86347 Member

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    You would have to change out the computer, wiring harness, the up from camera, drill holes in the sides for camera's It would be a lot of work.
     
  5. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

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    Now where is that dead horse image when you need it :)
     
    • Funny x 2
  6. P85DBeast

    P85DBeast Side tEsLa

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    It would require a lot more work than some people think than changing out cameras, and sensors, and plus Tesla would also have to add the new upgraded cameras and the upgraded rear camera, and then comes the wiring harnesses and such. And sooooooo much timeeeee! you'd probably be without your S for about 4-5 months if not even longer! So it would be smarter just to trade your old car for a new AP 2.0 car!:D
     
  7. Jhall118

    Jhall118 Member

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    #7 Jhall118, Dec 6, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
    Have you seen the new hardware? Where would you have to drill a hole?

    The side cameras look like a direct swap for the turn indicators. The cameras in the B pillars would just need to replace the top interior portion of the B pillar. The new ultrasonics use the exact same holes (same size and everything). You would just need to swap out the sensor. The front cameras would require a new windshield - even the headliner looks the same.

    Now, wiring everything in is a problem, and cooling the computer, but these aren't impossible things for a DIY person that doesn't mind building connectors to do.

    I think this is totally doable when the cost of the Nvidia chip comes down. If Tesla allowed existing owners access to the software for free, I think it would be cost effective. I mean, Elon Musk is trying to get a trip to mars down to $500,000. I think he could figure out a way for a cost-effective retrofit if he wanted to.

    But Tesla wants to sell new cars, like every other auto manufacturer. Certainly can't fault them - they have much more important things to worry about than making our cars orders of magnitude safer :)

    Hopefully a third party shop finds a way. To trade my current P85D for a 90D (losing the performance) would be over 30k delta, and it will only get worse as time goes on.

    Maybe if I had a garage and the balls to mess with the wiring in my car I could prove it, but I will have to let others tread there first, when some of the new Autopilot cars end up in the junkyard.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. Doubletap67

    Doubletap67 Member

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    and how would they validate the EAP software for DIY installations? And who would assume the liability?
     
    • Funny x 1
  9. Doubletap67

    Doubletap67 Member

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    True, impossible isn't the right word. Not going to be offered, ever, at any price, would have been more accurate.
     
    • Funny x 1
  10. number12

    number12 Active Member

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    True delta cost is trade in minus improved value of car. So bump that down to maybe $15k?

    Also I'll start a crowd fund me to buy a ap2.0 and pay someone to rip it apart and film it. (Was actually thinking about this for a while)

    I'd pay $10 to see that. And I'm sure 8,000 other ppl all over the world would too.
     
  11. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    Why not just wait a few more weeks and get one for under $30k that was totaled to tear apart? And once you are done you can sell all of the parts to someone who wants to attempt a retro-fit. :cool:
     
  12. pixel4

    pixel4 Member

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    From Tesla FOV, the ROI of enabling this is zero.
    1. Building a retrofit program would suck resources away from Model 3
    2. It would bring added ongoing complexity in managing fleet software.
    3. A retrofit program would limit the appeal of new stock.

    It's not impossible, just highly improbable.
     
    • Like x 1
  13. nishT

    nishT Member

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    Thank you everyone for your inputs. Yeap, I agree 1) It would take a lot of new HW, money and effort to upgrade the AP and 2) Even it is feasible, Tesla may not be willing to do, for atleast to increase the sales on the new car.
     
  14. lklundin

    lklundin Member

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    Agreed.

    I do think it makes sense when Elon said that the AP(2) computer would be easy to upgrade, since the GPGPU power is certain to continue its exponential improvement - and since it is almost certain that the AP can take advantage of that (by analyzing its input more rigorously).

    On a related note, since also the battery capacity improves at an exponential rate I much hope that battery upgrades will be offered.
    (The old battery could be traded in and Tesla could repack the cells into a stationary Powerwall product, which has lower requirements on energy and power). This would make sense from a sustainability point-of-view.
     
  15. Jhall118

    Jhall118 Member

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    I would happily retain liability, just as I do now. I just want what was sold to me with AP1 hardware - hands free on ramp to off ramp.
     
  16. rfmurphy81

    rfmurphy81 Member

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    I came across a number of threads earlier in the year when major changes were introduced and forum members advised just to trade in and buy a new vehicle. While it totally makes sense as a response, there are plenty who can't afford to take the hit in deprecation. For me, I would lose about 25k on my 10 month old 70 kWh Model S if I did a trade in via Tesla (quote from my OA) and selling private party seems scary to me due to so many unknowns (mostly timing as a whole). Ultimately, I decided it wasn't cost effective since I had to pinch pennies to buy the car in the first place, so I'll just enjoy what I have, while being very jealous of the new owners who have the improved hardware and functionality.

    Now, if someone has a way to obtain the new parts and documents how to put them in plus get the software to recognize the new hardware, I and many other owners would be down to follow along. However, even if someone could get the parts and figure out a way to put them in, I have to question whether Tesla would play along (by allowing the software to recognize the new hardware).

    C'est le vie! :)
     
  17. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT Quickish

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    It still wouldn't work, because your VIN would have to be on the "I've paid for 2.0" list.
     
  18. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    I would guess the one person on the forums who might actually accomplish this is wk057. He did install AP1 on a non-AP car, although in the end he said the hours of labor involved were significant, and he didn't recommend it to anyone.
     
  19. Yinn

    Yinn Member

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    Yes, it is possible - even on cars w/o AP1. The steps are a bit tricky and requires some workarounds. Here are the steps.

    1. Go to the Tesla page and configure an order for a new car to match exactly your car - or as close as possible.
    2. Place the order
    3. Go to the dashboard for your order and find the section for trade in, and enter your car information.

    Tesla will then give you a trade in value. The difference between the two is what it costs to upgrade.

    You might be rolling your eyes at this point, but that's just to get the pricing difference between your car and the cost of upgrading to AP2 hardware. The next pieces are really the key.

    4. Drop your car off at the service center and tell them you're in for the upgrade.

    The actual upgrade time will depend on a number of factors, such as the amount of time to build the hardware into your car. When it's ready, they will call you to pick up the car. You only need to pay the price that was determined in the first part.

    Just note, Tesla will have to assign you a new VIN number when they do this. It's for tracking purposes in case there's a recall on the AP2 hardware.

    *I apologize for being a jerk. It's my attempt at sarcastic humour. As others have said, retrofit would essentially be a full disassemble of your car and rebuild. It would be cheaper for them to sell you a new car and far less time consuming.

    As for a DIY, I'm 100% positive it's possible. It may not run the same as OEM, but I'm sure someone out there can rig up additional cameras, modify programming, etc. Just a matter of time, money, and determination.
     
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    • Like x 1
  20. gearchruncher

    gearchruncher Member

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    Are you suggesting that Tesla would give away FSD to current owners that retrofit hardware, but continue to charge new customers $10,000 to enable FSD after delivery (aka "the software")?

    Remember, AP1 was $3K (at the end), AP2 is $5K, and FSD is $3K. All are $1K more to put in after delivery. People that ordered AP1 but are getting AP2 have to pay the extra $2K for AP2 features or be software limited. They literally aren't even giving current cars AP2 at an AP1 price, and if you don't take AP2 before delivery, it's the extra $1K to upgrade.
     

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