TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Can we handle lane keeping and other autopilot features when they are released?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Andyw2100, May 12, 2015.

  1. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    5,392
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    I am really beginning to wonder if the Tesla-driving community in general is capable of handling lane keeping and other autopilot features when Tesla releases them. Don't get me wrong--I really want them! And I think the vast majority of us will use the features exactly as designed, will use them safely, and that they will enhance our driving experiences.

    But when I see all the confusion that exists already over the few autopilot and safety features we have now, I really have to wonder. Read some of the posts in this thread if you question what I'm referring to: 3 day old import P85D crashed while using TACC

    There are a great many Tesla drivers--members of this community, who in general are going to be better educated about features and their cars than the "average" Tesla driver--who are pretty darn confused about the various features and how they work and when they should and shouldn't be used. If members of this community can be this confused, how confused might the "average" Tesla driver be?

    It has been suggested that one reason Tesla is not enabling "regular" cruise control when TACC is not available is because it would confuse people, and they may rely on TACC functionality that is not present. I'll buy that. If that's the case, how much more confusing is it going to be for the people who might be confused by that, and for the people already clearly confused by the features we already have, when Tesla adds lane keeping into the mix?

    Again, I am not making an argument against getting these features. I want them, and I know most of us will use them properly. I'm just terrified about what could happen with the people that won't, and how that could affect Tesla and the future of the autopilot features.
     
  2. morbot

    morbot Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2014
    Messages:
    208
    Location:
    Seattle
    I don't think it's a problem unique to "Tesla Community".

    Humanity in general tends to mess things up and its why we can't have nice things.
     
  3. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,010
    Location:
    Southern New Jersey
    That car was bought on the gray market and the buyer wasn't primed on the features of the car like a buyer would be who sourced directly from Tesla. On the other hand, down the road, what happens when these cars are sold by used car dealers? They aren't going to explain to the new buyer either. I think the car should give an audible warning/disclaimer whenever autopilot is engaged and make the driver verbally agree before it engages. Sounds like a pain, but might be necessary. It would only take a few seconds and, since autopilot is for long trips, what's an extra couple of seconds going to hurt? It's not like you have to stop....it would just delay autopilot engagement for a few seconds.
     
  4. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2014
    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    California
    please, no.
     
  5. thedaysbetween

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    +1 to "why we can't have nice things". Well played.
     
  6. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker Beta Tester

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,921
    Location:
    Morrison, Colorado, USA
    How about a new driver tutorial similar to what is offered in video games? It would give extra instructions concerning functionality and as a user learned to use such functionality, the prompts would gradually go away.
     
  7. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Absolutely!
    In answer to your question about the Tesla driving community "in general".
    Thousands of people have these tools available to them, in the Tesla and in other vehicles. We have heard of a very, very, very small fraction of those with bad results.
    Likewise, there are some humans that can't be trusted with a spoon.

    Just because of the exceptions, you can't stop progress, otherwise we would still be in caves eating our food raw.
     
  8. mikeash

    mikeash Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,107
    Location:
    Fairfax, VA, USA
    How have other manufacturers handled this? TACC has been around in various cars for years, and automatic lane keeping has been available in a few models since at least last year, so there must be some real world experience to learn from there. I have no idea what it is....
     
  9. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    5,392
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    I wasn't talking about the driver of the car. I was referring to the more active members of this forum, posting messages that clearly indicated that they did not understand how various features were supposed to work. Read just the last couple of pages of that thread, and you'll see what I'm talking about. People pose questions about features, others answer them incorrectly, and then others have to correct those who answered in the first place. And we're far more knowledgeable than the average Tesla owner!

    - - - Updated - - -

    The problem is that when those who can't be trusted with a spoon only have a spoon, they really can't do too much damage with it, but when those people get behind the wheel of a 691 HP P85D, with little or no understanding of how the autopilot features are designed to work...


    I can't stress strongly enough that I agree with you on this. I'm merely suggesting we all may have a problem because of the spoon people.
     
  10. Mr X

    Mr X Future Owner

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Messages:
    855
    Location:
    Simi Valley, CA
    I honestly don't see the point in it. If im going to be in the driver seat im going to be controlling the car, the car is not going to be controlling itself or take over what i can do, otherwise i won't be in it.


    I drive the car, the car doesn't drive itself!


    But then again i guess im not like "most drivers" so maybe this will come in handy for the "challenged drivers" when it becomes more refined. But even then i still wouldn't fully rely on it or feel comfortable with it.


    No autopilot for me uh uh
     
  11. oneday

    oneday Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2014
    Messages:
    165
    Location:
    Bay Area
    The driver is responsible, the driver is responsible, the driver is responsible!

    Convenience features are exactly that. I do think Tesla should stress this very heavily, not just for liability but for the safety of their customers.
     
  12. WillAustin

    WillAustin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2015
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Yes. :biggrin:
     
  13. steph280

    steph280 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    216
    Location:
    Orange, CA
    I think Tesla shouldn't have used the phrase "Auto Pilot" in the first place. Like somebody said it's just a glorified cruised control. If they called it cruise control then consumer wouldn't have the false expectation of autonomous cars.
     
  14. commasign

    commasign Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    Davis, CA
    Agree. "Driver Assist" features would have been more accurate.

    The one good thing about the Tesla autopilot (aka MobilEye) system is that it's already being used in dozens of other cars for a number of years. So it's not really a brand new product, just the Tesla-version of an existing product. With that said, all eyes are on Tesla and the media is just waiting for a story to tell whether it's good or bad.
     
  15. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,734
    Location:
    Smithfield, VA
    Much of an aircraft autopilot system is just glorified cruise control, too. The difference is that there are less things to hit up in the air.

    But in the end, it's just one of those things. If you don't want to use it, don't use it. Those who do should educate themselves about it. There will always be a fraction of the population that just can't handle it, no matter how simple it is.

    Yes, more incidents with TACC will occur. But I can think of a couple stories I've read on this forum already where TACC actually PREVENTED an accident. It probably evens out in the end--in fact, I'm willing to bet that TACC prevents more accidents than it causes.
     
  16. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    3,960
    Location:
    South Surrey, BC
    I'm not certain TACC could be said to cause any accident when used as intended.
     
  17. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,734
    Location:
    Smithfield, VA
    Agree. I should say TACC probably prevents more accidents than it lures the driver into causing :).
     
  18. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,996
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Listen, you can give us all the warnings and instructions in the world and you'll still have that percentage that decides to take a nap on their road trip.

    It's no different than the percentage that decides they haven't had too much to drink before they drive home, or the percentage that thinks that their current most inane thought needs to be tweeted immediately while driving through a school zone, or the percentage of people that insist on watching their popcorn bag pop in the microwave with their nose pressed against the glass.

    It's like a real life "Dumb Ways to Die" app. I literally cannot wait.
     
  19. morbot

    morbot Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2014
    Messages:
    208
    Location:
    Seattle
    To expand upon my quick between meetings reply:

    If we could trust everyone to always be responsible grown-ups in all situations, there's a lot of things that we could have that would make life more interesting or cool. It seems that for some time, things have been getting dumbed down and the rise of the Nanny State. Like many things I'm not sure if it's really worse off than it was before, or if there's just more visibility.

    People are so quick to jump on something and shut it down for the protection of the masses. Everyone wants to shut the next thing down before it's even a thing. Be it caused by sensationalism of the media be it from the 24 hour paranoia news channels or the fact that any of our foibles could end up the next viral video. Everything needs to be stopped before it's a thing.

    So Tesla, with their cool new features, when they add a mention at the end of their features that, guess what: "Hey, ultimately you are responsible for driving the car". In todays' day and age that seems a bit understated, because we're so used to seeing commercials of cars flying through outer-space with disclaimers that say "Car will not drive in outer-space but if you find yourself in this situation, do not roll down your windows."

    Aaanyway... yeah they probably need to shout a little louder that people still need to drive this car and then quietly mention that it does have some pretty cool features, instead of the other way around.

    That way, there's less chance of the small minority ruining it for the rest of us.
     
  20. electricBear

    electricBear Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    Doylestown,PA
    +1 as well

    Many of you may not remember, but when cruise control first became mass market people thought it was an autopilot. Some stories may be apocryphal but there was always the one of the person with a new motorhome that set the 'cruise control' and got up to make a pot of coffee or get a bite to eat.

    But hey, people think their ISP provided internet router or email are secure.
     

Share This Page