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Can Wifee get to York and back?

WannabeOwner

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Nov 2, 2015
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Suffolk, UK
She's never wanted to master Supercharging .... and I can see her point too. I'm a detail-person, and happy with the planning, and mental arithmetic en route if need be. She hates maths ... but she has been to Superchargers with me ...

... however, she's thinking about it! and I'd like to encourage her. If she could just stop at Supercharger by the roadside that would be fine ... but the journey doesn't lend itself to that.

I've created a slightly artificial journey (in A Better Route Planner) in order to simulate some (15 miles) running around in York, and a slightly further return destination Belt & Braces

Cambridge, UK
York, UK
Strensall, York, UK - simulated running around ...
York, UK
Stowmarket, UK

MS P90D - Depart at 100%

The assumptions I have made:

340 Wh/mile @ 65MPH
Speed 110%
Max Speed 80 MPH
Depart 100%
Charger arrive 10%
Goal arrive 10%

Temperature 5C
Wind 0
Dry roads

ABRP would take me via Leeds on the way up, that's a fair chunk out of the way, and there are only 2 stalls there - round the back of the hotel, I think risky that they are busy ...

If I add Grantham to 90% (would prefer 80% max ...) on the way up she still can't get back to, say, Woodall (also a bit of a detour) on the way back, and ABRP says Barnsley - also a 2 Stall supercharger ...

I wondered about charging on CHAdeMO at the York Designer Outlet (I'm sure she could kill an hour there ...), I have APP on my phone so maybe (from afar) could initiate the charge for her when she gets there ... but all that kerfuffle with the CHAdeMO adaptor is a bit to ask ... I think there is only one CHAdeMO stall there, which might be busy etc. ... she would cope, but I don't want to put her off ever road-trip-charging again!

But getting some charge in York would allow her to stop at Grantham both up and down, no detours, and apart from CHAdeMO would be straightforward.

Just possible she might encounter a 13 AMP socket where she is staying for the night, which would help, but don't want to rely on that.
 

arg

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Aug 22, 2012
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Cambridge, UK
She's never wanted to master Supercharging .... and I can see her point too. I'm a detail-person, and happy with the planning, and mental arithmetic en route if need be. She hates maths ... but she has been to Superchargers with me ...

My wife is also non-technical (literally from the stone age - her business is hand-carved lettering on stone!) and rarely drives the car long-distance so hasn't the opportunity to become familiar with public charging. She finds Supercharging easy, but the one time I sent her on a trip that needed CHAdeMO she failed to obtain a charge there. Unfortunately, there's just too many things can go wrong on CHAdeMO, from the crazy non-obvious plugs still found on some (but not all) chargers, the need to use the mobile app, the unreliability of the equipment. So for someone without the fault-finding mentality and no chance to build up experience, it's a high risk.

I would have thought that 90% at Grantham would do the round-trip to York - though Grantham is a bit of a dump for hanging around at.

(edited to add: in case the above seems pessimistic or patronising, I believe anybody can learn to use a CHAdeMO charger - it's just that if it's something you've never done before or only do once a year, doing it in circumstances when failure would leave you stranded is a bad idea).
 
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arg

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Aug 22, 2012
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Cambridge, UK
Looking at the map again, Woodall is only about 15 miles diversion and is a much better option than Leeds. Grantham->York->Woodall is 150 miles.

The ideal would be Woodall on the outbound and Grantham on the return, allowing you to do Woodall both ways as a Plan B if your planning goes wrong for any reason.

Unfortunately Woodall is on the southbound side and requires negotiating the access roads as if going to the hotel to get at it when travelling northbound (I've not visited myself, so I can't say how intimidating the no-entry signs are). At least the nav seems to know to use the back road.

If you don't fancy that, Grantham outbound and 80% (plan for Woodall on the way back) or 90% (hope for Grantham on the way back, Woodall as Plan B).
 

DJP31

Active Member
Aug 30, 2015
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UK
Unless she really wants the challenge, and from what you say she doesn’t, you are on a hiding to nothing with this. I would thank her for at least thinking about it but admit the journey is too complicated for a first time and you would worry about her.
 

WannabeOwner

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Nov 2, 2015
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Suffolk, UK
Unless she really wants the challenge

Its a size-of-vehicle issue in fetching #2 daughter. Fall back is the Golf ... better would be the People-Carrier, but #1 daughter nicked that to do a UK Tour busking when found that none of her/mates were old enough to hire a mini-bus ...

... I was due to be chauffeur to York, and any amount of charging-hassle would have been fine, but now work has got in the way.

So its the size that matters ...

... stopping at Grantham ... charge to 90% ... without worries

Tried that, I don't share your optimism I'm afraid, particularly for a Newbie. That gets me to York at 48%, not allowing for some running around in York that gets back to Woodall on the return at 20%. Allowing for running around in York, and cold-start each trip, that's tight (she will overnight in York, forecast is < 0C that morning)

there's just too many things can go wrong on CHAdeMO

Thanks @arg, your shared concern reassures me that I'm right to be cautious for this trip :) I hadn't really considered that CHAdeMO can be a problem, apart from the bulky connector, so that's also useful, albeit negative, thanks. I have used the CHAdfeMO at York (Designer Outlet) without drama

The ideal would be Woodall on the outbound

Hadn't thought of that, but as you surmise "if it were me I'd be up for it". I had a look on Google StreetView ... not for the fainthearted I reckon ... and no telling if it has changed / barrier-etc. since Google Car was last there.

The exit to swap-carriageways (back to North side) from the South side is tricky - literally just by the return sliproad to M1 which would be a disaster if overshot ... however, on the upside getting to the Supercharger (from access road from North side) requires crossing the [South side] slip back to motorway, so should help with figuring out how to double back again. But I don't think I want to inflict that unless I had tried it myself.
WoodallMap.jpg


WoodallNorth.jpg

Getting to the access from from North side - looks like plenty of cars scattered there ...

WoodallSouth1.jpg

Getting to access road from South side ... this view is from the actual slip back onto the M1 :(
 

WannabeOwner

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Nov 2, 2015
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Suffolk, UK
Grantham->York->Woodall is 150 miles.

Put like that it sounds doable, even allowing for 10 - 15 miles running around in York and cold-start for the return.

My normal, fair-weather, range is 220 miles, so charge to 90% at Grantham, and 20 mile buffer, would be 178 miles. Even allowing for cold-start should be fine.

The 90% charge at Grantham outbound (ABRP reckons arrive at 66%) is 20 minutes, so she could stay 30 minutes (although law-of-diminishing returns at that SoC of course) and get to 96% ... my rule of thumb is 1%=2 miles ...

Return from York at 54% then:

Leeds 16%
Woodhall 28%
Grantham 42%

So if leaving York at 26%-38% then go to Leeds ...
... 38%-52% go to Woodhall
... and 52%+ goto Grantham

The A1(M) / M18 junction is 14 miles / 8% to Woodall, 52 miles / 25% to Grantham, so can decide at that point to divert to Woodall if < 35%

She might be happy with an metric like that ...
 

arg

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Aug 22, 2012
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Cambridge, UK
The exit to swap-carriageways (back to North side) from the South side is tricky - literally just by the return sliproad to M1 which would be a disaster if overshot ... however, on the upside getting to the Supercharger (from access road from North side) requires crossing the [South side] slip back to motorway, so should help with figuring out how to double back again. But I don't think I want to inflict that unless I had tried it myself.

However, for this particular route, you don't have to get on the M1 in the first place - and indeed if you put the trip in the nav it will route you that way - along the back road and straight into the services without going on the M1.

The no-entry ought not to have got worse in that it's a signed route for access to the hotel.
 

WannabeOwner

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Nov 2, 2015
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Ah good job you drew that to my attention @arg, thanks, ABRP didn't know about Service Road so route-planned down the M1 and back up again, and I hadn't zoomed in on the map to spot that ... that's much less aggro. So long as she doesn't accidentally get on M1 South after charging should be fine :)

Still a bit unhappy asking her to do the Hotel-service-road thingie (although she'll be far less bothered going through a No Entry than I would!!) as you say: charging at Woodall North to 80% looks like it will allow her some running around in York and get back to Grantham at 10%, but as discussed earlier with options for Leeds or Woodall ...
 

WannabeOwner

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Nov 2, 2015
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Blown out ... she's got to go to Brigg (just East of Scunthorpe) on the way back ... I'm doing some calcs ...

EDIT: York - (Humber bridge) - Brigg - Grantham is only 10 miles further than York - Grantham, but no bail-out variations compared to the York/Woodall and York-Grantham choices ...

She still seems keen, bless her.

She is thinking (belt and braces rather than cutting it fine) Woodall on the way up, swing by Leeds and if the 2-bays aren't busy then charge to 90% there, otherwise go to York, she has 2 hours to kill following morning so CHAdeMO or something else, and then York-Brigg-Grantham should be fine
 
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arg

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It's still doable - Woodall->York->Brigg->Grantham is 160 miles by the shortest routes (Humber bridge and via Lincoln). But not much PlanB after leaving York - Ecotricity at the foot of the Humber Bridge and Lidl(Podpoint) in Lincoln.

Is your car single-charger on AC?

Assume she's not staying at the Grange Hotel in York (2x Tesla destination chargepoints!)
 
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WannabeOwner

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Nov 2, 2015
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Thanks @arg Yes single-charger. She's got a new phone too (decided Apple not bothering to tell her they were slowing her phone down, and not giving her a config-option, means they are now toast. So been downloading APPs for her Pixel-thing ... so even more to go wrong when she gets there! Waze had no Favourites yet ... so hopefully I have put in pin-point-accurate location of the service road for Woodall, and she doesn't just navigate to the one on the Motorway by mistake ... she's no fool, but she's "not a detail person" either ... unfortunately #1 daughter is detail-person like me, but its #2 daughter she will have with her, and they are both from the same mould !

Perhaps, worst case, she can call me and I can start a charge remotely from my phone ...

I've done a nice little charge of minimum-safe departure percentages for each stop, and several essays about how to use each type of Charger ... would have been quicker to just drive there myself!

(Will remember Grange Hotel for next time :) )
 

WannabeOwner

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Nov 2, 2015
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Suffolk, UK
... I've created a set of TeslaFi Scheduled Tasks to increase charge limit to 100%, wait 10 minutes (in case TeslaFi has to retry ...), charge car, then warm the car 30 minutes before departure ... and disabled all other scheduled tasks so nothing kicks in unexpectedly ...

... snow forecast for Friday night in York, not good for range, ...

... I'd best order some Flowers for the returning champion!
 

thegruf

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Mar 24, 2015
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York? - mine's got lost coming back from Tesco's before.
As for snow - you can't even get her out of bed never mind driving.

Probably why she don't get flowers much :D

Daughter went to Milton Keynes shopping once (1hr each way) - came back three days later.
Never did find out if stayed with friends or just got lost in the enldess roundabouts.
 
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arg

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Aug 22, 2012
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If your remote monitoring shows not enough margin for safety, I notice that there’s really quite a lot of CHAdeMO around York, including a pair of the new Instavolt units that are contactless credit card activated rather than needing apps or accounts etc.
 

thegruf

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@arg - not to derail the thread but somebody told me that there are different versions of the Tesla Chaedemo adaptor (now v4?) and that some Chademo points are not compatible with the old ones and TEsla will replace foc.
This thread and reference to Chademo points reminded me - you being knowedgeable about these things - is this actually a real world issue and should I get it sorted? Might it affect the OP too?
 
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arg

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Aug 22, 2012
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Cambridge, UK
@arg - not to derail the thread but somebody told me that there are different versions of the Tesla Chaedemo adaptor (now v4?) and that some Chademo points are not compatible with the old ones and TEsla will replace foc.
This thread and reference to Chademo points reminded me - you being knowedgeable about these things - is this actually a real world issue and should I get it sorted? Might it affect the OP too?

It’s hard to get good info on this. The firmware in the adapters can be updated by service centres, and there have also been several hardware revisions.

AFAIK, the only issue requiring update to the newer hardware is that facelift cars won't work with the earlier model adapters.

There was one incident of a rogue chargepoint blowing up every adapter plugged into it before it was fixed, but that doesn't really count.

I've not heard clear evidence of the firmware updates having a significant effect on compatibility. My adapter is a fairly early one and has not had an upgrade (unless they did it silently during service without noting it on the invoice). I have not had any failures that appeared to be compatibility issues - the one I mentioned upthread where my wife failed to get a charge was at a unit I had successfully used myself several times, and one other unexplained failure I had (unit apparently working but wouldn't charge) the unit was subsequently flagged on maps as being "out of order".

But on the other hand I've not visited every chargepoint in the country (though I have tried a good selection of models)...
 

WannabeOwner

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Nov 2, 2015
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Suffolk, UK
She's at Woodall ...

... left late, hadn't read any of the notes, booked a table in a restaurant on the basis that Google said you can get form Cambridge to York in a couple of hours (helps if you say what time of day, for traffic ... and assume that Charging is not actually Instant ...)

Just be careful on the service road at woodall as its AWFUL!!!! Massive holes etc.

She says its worse than that! ... plus it was flooded and cars waiting to get through the water etc ...

And to add to my depression the guy I had a meeting with today said as a surprise for his wife's birthday he's learning to play the piano and taking singing lessons, and is going to play and sing for her at the public grand piano in Euston Station (or somesuch) ...

... I might have to get a Rabbit and a Hat ...

I recalculated and told her if she charges to 85% she won't need to charge in York at all, so fingers crossed that she doesn't go charging round York tonight ... its at 86% now ... could it be she took my advice and pushed the reservation back a bit? :)

Getting her new phone paired with car before she left, and a USB-to-pixel charging cable so that Waze wouldn't run the battery flat - only got asked for the later at 5AM (only USB-USB cable I had didn't work) and didn't know about the former until she didn't answer the phone en route ...

.... not sure if Technology will ever catch on ...

Thanks for everyones' help :)
 
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