Can Wifee get to York and back?

[WannabeOwner]

First leg, Cambridge to Woodall (112 miles), ABRP predicted 49% on arrival, car satnav predicted 47%, actually arrived at 47% ...

Not so good Woodall to York (59 miles). Left Woodall at 90%, ABRP planner predicted 67%, actually 62% (temperature was down to 5C), running around took that to 59% ... I expect more running around this morning, car says its 0C up there, weather forecast snow ... so I figure she should charge to full-ish and kill an hour at the York Designer Outlet ...

Based on only a couple of experiences I expect Type-2 will be 20-ish MPH, and 9%-per-hour, CHAdeMO 90-ish MPH and 42%-per-hour (1-hour time limit at that charger)

Of course none of this hassle with Petrol Stations which are available on every street corner ...

... but FWIW in this wife-support-role TeslaFi is proving invaluable. I can get Lat/Long figures for "now" and just chuck that into Google Maps as the Start location to see where she is / how long until she arrives so I am around for Moral + Technical support, along with knowing what SoC is (I can get that from APP too of course), and being able to see how charging is going, from afar, means I can check that kW ramps-up OK and do the check of whether she has parked at a duff stall (I told her not to "pair-park"), rather than her having to do worry about any of that.

FSD would have meant she could have sent the car off to charge itself during the night ...

 

[DJP31]

Of course none of this hassle with Petrol Stations which are available on every street corner ...

Is this an indication of her SoM (State of Mind) or is she enjoying the experience?

 

[WannabeOwner]

SoM / enjoying the experience?

I'll reserve judgement until she is home and tells me face-to-face!

But the whole thing is nuts. I'm glad to hear that Government is requiring pay-at-pump shortly ... but even so the planning, adaptability-en-route, and so on is fine for people-like-me, not fine for others - who comprise the majority of society ...

She's at the York Designer Outlet CHAdeMO. Now has moral support of Daughter #2, so different moral-level to first-Supercharger-experience (which of course was effortless by comparison to CHAdeMO) ... but euphoria and Whoops of delight when it started ...

Standing around in the cold sorting connectors out is no fun.

Good job I read up on CHAdeMO yesterday to make notes for her, so that I had reminded myself that the handle on CHAdeMO must be used to "click" the lock = ON.

The APP I installed on her phone yesterday, which didn't ask for any password that I can remember - I think it used a Google Email/Password Library thingie ... is today asking for account details, which we don't know.

I tried to operate charger from my phone ... but I could only see chargers nearby-to-me, even when I scrolled the map to York.

If's probably my dyslexia that I didn't spot it, but there is a box to type in postcode/address - but the whole company-logo and data-entry-box is one single green rectangle, so the data-entry field was not obvious to me. Companies should have left these projects with Computer Science people, not pixel-perfect-priority marketing/design people ... that's another story ...

So having located the charger on my phone I started the charge. APP crashed.

Whoops of joy at far end, but I said "wait and check it continues to charge" sure enough it stopped.

Then we figured out the LOCK thing, my APP again, crashed again, but charging started and stayed running.

FWIW the 3 CYC chargers which are physically next to each other at York Designer Outlet, are several miles apart on the CYC APP ... so actually finding the right one to choose-to-use is pot luck.

"What's the reference number on the cabinet"

"12345 ..." (or somesuch)

"... but hang on, the other two have the same number"

<sigh>

Anyways, so long as it charges for the full allotted hour they are OK.

Snow on the ground in York, but Hockey-match that Daughter #2 is playing in Brigg not cancelled ...

 

[WannabeOwner]

P.S. the photo I found on Plugshare (might be old, but it is how I remember it) was this:

Middle "socket" is AC

So conversation went like this

"You need the cabinet by the covered bike rack, its got a silver gun on the right, and a black gun on the left"

(by the by, I'm surprised I didn't get a "How can you see that" ... but thank goodness for Plugshare and Punter Photos which have enabled me to save-the-day ...)

"Ok, I see it, I'll park ..."

"... I've plugged the Tesla cable into the car"

<scratches head>

"Is that the one in the middle, labelled AC?"

"Yes"

So then I got her to do the whole CHAdeMO thing, and we are good now.

Has someone left a Type-2 cable behind, plugged in? Or maybe they have changed the cabinet for a tethered Type-2 cable?

Presumably she would have been all day if this is a regular Type-2 ... although given it is a CHAdeMO cabinet presumably it has more Umph than the simple Type-2 posts (which only give me 22MPH)

But her confusion, and expectation "Just like Supercharger", is understandable.

 

[arg]

Has someone left a Type-2 cable behind, plugged in? Or maybe they have changed the cabinet for a tethered Type-2 cable?

I think if you look closely at the photo there’s 3 tethered cables but the AC happened to be in use at the time the photo was taken.

AC on rapid chargers causes all sorts of confusion and argument; fortunately, now that Renault have given up on rapid AC it will become a thing of the past.

Instavolt show the way of the future - simple payment by contactless bank card, DC only, none of the old user-hostile CHAdeMO plugs with the lever. Of course they have the advantage of starting with a clean slate last year.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I think if you look closely at the photo there’s 3 tethered cables but the AC happened to be in use at the time the photo was taken.

Je suis un twit ... what I am seeing in the photo, of course, is the parking-socket for the cable/gun. Thanks

She's running out of 1-hour limit, and approaching 90% which is more than enough, but (quite rightly) she says "Might as well charge to 100% to be 100% <sorry!> sure"

If it were me I would move to Type-2 for lower power top-off, but don't want to bother her with that, so will resume CHAdeMO for the remainder.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Re-launched CYC APP and continued charging (without need to disconnect or anything). (No one else parked nearby / hopeful / wanting)

APP crashed again of course (who writes this rubbish ...)

On the upside I've found the Favourites-Star-Button in CYC APP for the York Designer Outlet to save painfully typing it in and pressing SEARCH ...

... on the downside a second hour of Retail Therapy might break the bank ...

SoM?

Happy

 

[DJP31]

But the whole thing is nuts. I'm glad to hear that Government is requiring pay-at-pump shortly ... but even so the planning, adaptability-en-route, and so on is fine for people-like-me, not fine for others - who comprise the majority of society ...

Absolutely, and this is something I Pace owners can look forward to. I'm afraid to say I've taken little interest in what's happening behind the scenes (or even publicly for that matter, I'll admit to "I'm all right Jack") but the infrastructure for public charging has to be massively improved if widespread take up is to take off.

So then I got her to do the whole CHAdeMO thing, and we are good now.

And that can be a mini drama in itself.

Presumably she would have been all day if this is a regular Type-2 ... although given it is a CHAdeMO cabinet presumably it has more Umph than the simple Type-2 posts (which only give me 22MPH)

Still be limited by your onboard charger though, so slow compared to a CHAdeMo, let alone a SuC.

But her confusion, and expectation "Just like Supercharger", is understandable.

And neatly back to the first point about ease of charging. When I did my 2 day high performance driving course, we caned the battery and left the proving ground with enough to get to a SuC. My course manager, a retired Police instructor who's driven just about every type of vehicle made was gobsmacked. Arrived at Northampton, plugged in and as we walked towards the hotel he said "what happens now?". My reply was "I'll buy you a coffee". 20 minutes later we strolled back to the car with more than enough to complete the day. As I unplugged he said "what happens now?". When I said "nothing, we are good to go" there was incredulity that the operation was, as he put it, "simplicity itself."

Snow on the ground in York, but Hockey-match that Daughter #2 is playing in Brigg not cancelled ...

Yet. . Sure hope my golf tomorrow is!

 

[arg]

APP crashed again of course (who writes this rubbish ...)

I reluctantly pay the £20/year for the CYC card, as I use it just about enough that I don't want to take the risk of the app.
The Polar app is reputedly even worse, and their card more expensive, but by luck I've never needed to use one.
Both the above owned by Chargemaster.

Others are better:

PodPoint: app that mostly works, also anything you can do on the app you can also via their website (handy for remote support!). Also their 15-mins-free on AC points allowing you to sort the app somewhere warmer. Not so good on rapids, though they've expressed the intention to allow contactless payment on those in due course.

Ecotricity: app mostly works. They do have a website equivalent, but don't advertise it. No options other than the app.

CPG/GeniePoint: no app, just mobile-friendly website. One-time-only fee for card alternative, and you can also register (for free) any other RFID card that you happen to have lying around.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Probably not relevant but in case of interest:

Plugged in CHAdeMO with SoC at 51% and car, Phone APP and TeslaFi data reported "Time to charge 1h10m"

That cabinet limited to 1-hour max, so at one hour:

SoC = 91% , on restarting the car data is reporting 25 mins remaining.

I know (because @arg told me ...) CHAdeMO performs better at higher SoC

Dunno if relevant, but I turned Range Mode on (its a P + D-model), manually, before she left, so that has been on during charging too.

Bjorn said something about turning Range Mode off during charging, from memory that was so that in cold weather battery heater would come on and, perhaps?, better cabin-heat using shore power?

But Battery Heater did come on 1-minute into CHAdeMO charge session (she's driven a couple of miles, maybe, from hotel to CAHdeMo, its close to 0C, so cold-soaked overnight) and went off 36 minutes later (good old TeslaFi )

I might turn the cabin up to MAX for the last 10 minutes of shore-power ...

If anyone wants a trial of TeslaFi using a referral code extends the trial from 2 weeks to 4 weeks, and referrer gets 5$ off next sub.

EDIT: Ah! Maybe Range Mode restricts the UPPER temperature of Battery Heater, so maybe it would have stayed on longer if Range mode was off?

 

[WannabeOwner]

I reluctantly pay the £20/year for the CYC card, as I use it just about enough that I don't want to take the risk of the app.

Good shout. Just leaving that in the car would be a better thing than both Wife and I having APPs with a changed-password outfoxing the other, and so on ...

She said that there was a "Pay by phone" option (perhaps in CYC APP, not sure ...), so maybe that is the coming-soon easy-payment upgrade.

the CYC card ...
... Polar app ...
PodPoint: app ...
Ecotricity: app ...
CPG/GeniePoint: ...

I've used non-Supercharger once or twice a year. Sounds like you use them a lot more, just curious as to why that is? Perhaps your journeys take you off-grid, and from memory you have a slightly smaller battery than me.

Affordable 300-mile-range battery will pretty much nuke this problem.

 

[WannabeOwner]

When I did my 2 day high performance driving course

Wifee would enjoy that. Significant wedding anniversary this year, and I don't fancy playing and singing at the Euston Station piano ...

Could you let me have some details please? thanks.

 

[arg]

I've used non-Supercharger once or twice a year. Sounds like you use them a lot more, just curious as to why that is? Perhaps your journeys take you off-grid, and from memory you have a slightly smaller battery than me.

I don't use them a LOT more, but I probably use them more than superchargers. Partly due to where I am in the country (same as you though) - the direct route to a lot of places is cross-country and I don't like to divert via the M25 more often than I have to. Also, I've had my car longer than you so had to get used to this before there were many/any superchargers. It's heartening to repeat trips which were originally pulled off only with careful planning and find that now things have improved so much as to make them trivial. My car is an S85, but I don't think the difference to your 90D is actually material (and actually, you didn't mention setting yours to range mode which would be needed to make it show materially more range than mine).

Part of it is also that weekends away and the like are booked without regard to charging: I expect to be able to go anywhere I want in this car (I no longer have an ICE), but that does mean relying on public charging. If I was willing to restrict overnight accommodation to theTesla destination charging sites, then almost all the trouble would go away (as it would have on your wife's current trip).

 

[DJP31]

Wifee would enjoy that. Significant wedding anniversary this year, and I don't fancy playing and singing at the Euston Station piano ...

Could you let me have some details please? thanks.

Link below and have PM'd you.

High Performance Course - HOME

 

[WannabeOwner]

all good stuff, as ever, thanks @arg

First CHAdeMO:

50% 55.0 MPH
55% 67.7 MPH
60% 79.4 MPH
65% 85.9 MPH
70% 90.0 MPH
75% 93.1 MPH
80% 96.0 MPH
85% 97.5 MPH
90% 96.7 MPH

Almost 2x as fast at 90% than 50% ...

charging interrupted at 91%, so some ramping on after restarting, so not possible to compare like-with-like thereafter

Second CHAdeMO 91% - 100%

91% - 96% 2-3min each (TeslaFi only logs once per minute, so some "rounding")
97% 4 mins
98% 5 mins
99% 9 mins
100% 28 mins.

Total 1 hour so presumably Cabinet timed out, so there might have been more balancing that could have been done.

The initial 25 minute prediction got it halfway through the 99% period

CHAdeMO Cost @ CYC

Charge 1 : 34.52 kWh drawn £5.10
Charge 2 : 10.80 kWh drawn £1.50

Does the balancing increase the range much? or improve the car's prediction of range?

The car was charged to 100% yesterday, TeslaFi shows "Complete" at the end of that, and that was 18 minutes before TeslaFi changed to "disconnected" so looks like "fully balanced" at that point rather than "unplugged"

That was 16A supply

70% - 97% 6.8 mins per percent

98% 9 mins
99% 16 mins
100% 17 mins

Makes the 28 mins today look quite long ...

Previous CHAdeMO data 04-Nov, 10C, car had been standing overnight (Same Pump at York)

47% 105 MPH initially, then fell to:
54% 92.0 MPH
60% 93.6 MPH
70% 98.7 MPH
80% 101.9 MPH
88% 102.9 MPH

EDIT: Modified / Added some of the Stats

 

[WannabeOwner]

Wifee and Daughter #2 home safe and well ... and I'm still alive too!

She parked right against, and facing, the hockey pitch, bitterly cold, looked like the heater was using about 2% per hour keeping her toasty warm with a grandstand indoor view ...

... 10 minutes into the match a blizzard started and match was abandoned.

Surprised how much energy the car needed (well, not really, but good job we seriously over-compensated on charging to be on the safe side)

The first leg was 15C and 390 Wh/mile,s till a tad high perhaps (Range Mode was on). From Supercharger to York was 5C and a bit more Wh, but the return home today was 450 Wh/mile ... Even using ABRP "Heavy rain or Snow +20%" and increasing "Destination arrival SoC" to 20% (I would have only set 10% for myself ...) she got back at 17% ...

... the original "reasonable weather" calculations looked like a charge at Woodall on the way up, and Grantham (or if not then Woodall again) on the way back would be enough ... it didn't turn out anything like that ... we actually overcompensated charging to 47-90% at Woodhall, and 51-100% in York , plus 38-73% in Grantham

My take aways:

I have stopped often at supercharger, and a few times at APP-required chargers, and I've just jumped out and connected car / taken care of it.

What I should have done was get my wife to have a go. Just once at least.

Instead of which her first, solo, recharging trip was pothole infested, flooded, no-entry-signed unmadeup access roads; severe range anxiety; unusually foul weather; CHAdeMO charging and an induction to fragile APPs.

But at least, she is now fully trained and no excuses in future

Heaven help the coming-owners who would not consider themselves early-adopters.

 

[Asterix187]

If she got through that she will be fine in any circumstance. I do a run to York once a month (occasionally to Newcastle as well) and it’s not as easy as it could be.

Costs a lot less than an ICE car though!

 

[WannabeOwner]

Costs a lot less than an ICE car though!

Left on 100% charge - charged at work ... no charge

Charged at Supercharger twice - free

Charged at CHAdeMO £6.60 (about 2x as expensive as charging at home on E7)

Total distance 439 miles - so this trip was 1.5p per mile Petrol at £1.20 and 50 MPG vehicle would have been 10.9 p/mile ...