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Canada. World Leader. Who knew ?

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Lon12, May 29, 2017.

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  1. Lon12

    Lon12 Member

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  2. Algbc

    Algbc Member

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    Great, now I hope they stick with the plan and allow Self driving cars in Canada.
     
  3. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    It's basically a nothing statement. If we're not developing strategies for all forms of transportation, then Transport Canada isn't meeting its mandate. The bottom line of the press release is the details of funding which is $62.5 million through Budget 2016 and an additional $120 million through Budget 2017. Peanuts. And, if you look close at those numbers you'll see there's no consumer rebate -- not even one like in the States where you can deduct up to $7,500 off your federal taxes. That one makes the most sense to me since it ensures there's taxes behind it. But the government would have to fund it a lot more than it is willing to pay. Instead, the government is just continuing the tradition of giving $34 billion in subsidies to big oil. Ours electric vehicle funding goes in part to help the logging industry develop electric vehicles, putting in chargers, when we can leave that to private industries like Tesla, and other nonsense. To suggest Canada is leading the world in the transition to EVs with this budget is a joke when you look at what the Scandinavia countries do -- and they are heavily dependent on oil for their economies too. They are the world leaders, the US leads us with its federal rebate, and we're basically a joke in this area, at least in my view.
     
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  4. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    We're what, a decade behind on the promotion of an EV infrastructure. What the Liberal government has proposed so far towards that goal has been insultingly weak. I'm not holding my breath. The Liberals are as much in the thrall of big oil as the previous Harper government.
     
  5. RiverBrick

    RiverBrick Active Member

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    Also, most of the current ZEV infrastructure funding is slated for hydrogen stations,

    You would think a Transport Minister with a doctorate in engineering would know better, but the former astronaut is enamored with fuel cells. Maybe it's because Toyota has two factories in Ontario. Last Friday, Minister Garneau was asked about a California-style ZEV regulation for Canada and his reply was straight from the manufacturer's and dealer's war room.
     
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  6. Vawlkus

    Vawlkus Member

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    Hydrogen Fool cells you men. -.-
     
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  7. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    It isn't necessarily fair to compare Canada to other countries that don't have a federal system - and transportation is under provincial jurisdiction. Many of us do get substantial government rebates when we buy an EV - but those rebates come from the province of BC, Quebec or Ontario and not the federal government. When comparing across countries you should make sure to include federal+provincial subsidies since most countries don't have that second level.

    Should the feds be doing more - hell yes. They should be coming up with a national strategy and a national subsidy program to level the playing field across the country. And it would be nice to eliminate the HST on EVs for example. It is ridiculous that the US under Trump gives more subsidies to EVs than Canada does under Trudeau. But many/most of us did (and do) get substantial rebates - I got an $8500 rebate plus $1000 for charger installation. And there is also a bit of value in getting to drive in HOV/HOT lanes.
     
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  8. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    #8 Canuck, May 30, 2017
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
    Ha! Now that's funny. You sure sound like a politician passing the buck to the Provinces. If you really believe that transportation falls under provincial jurisdiction then there would be no need for a federal department of transportation. In fact, A list of federal, provincial, and municipal government responsibilities based upon current legislation and Cabinet positions lists the federal government as being responsible for "Transport, Infrastructure, and Communities" as opposed to just "Transportation" for Provinces. To suggest that the federal government plays no role in moving the people to sustainable forms of transport, because we have a parliamentary system, is pure hogwash. That's the exact role the federal government should be playing when it comes to transportation, while the Provinces are more concerned with fixing the actual roads,with funding in part from the federal government.

    Sorry to be so blunt, but this seems to be a typical Ontario answer to a lot of Canadian issues. There's a reason the rest of Canada calls Toronto the "centre of the universe" -- and that's not because it is. We get no rebates at all on a Tesla in BC. In fact, the PST went from 7% to 10% on my Tesla, plus 5% GST so I paid $15k in taxes on my vehicle, -- in part to fund your "have-not" Province of Ontario, which those of us in BC, Alberta, Newfoundland and Labrador, and Saskatchewan have been doing for years -- sending our tax dollars your way to spend as you please.

    But as long as the rebates are high in Ontario, screw us in the other Provinces who pay far more than our fair share to the "have not" Province of Ontario for those rebates. Right?
     
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  9. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    You get no rebates in BC? What about the CEV for BC program? It looks like you can get an incentive of $5,000 for an EV in BC? Teslas may not qualify as they have an MSRP that is too high - but Ontario was like this for a while too.

    I didn't say screw those of you in the rest of the country, I said "They should be coming up with a national strategy and a national subsidy program to level the playing field across the country"

    Sure the Feds have some jurisdiction for Transportation but it is primarily a provincial area - that is no different from health care. Does the license plate on your car say BC or Canada? Is your driver's license issued by the province or the country? Do the Feds maintain your highways? Road transportation is primarily a provincial responsibility.

    In Northern Europe they don't have a federal system, they have a Unitary system. There is no shared jurisdiction so the national government has to do all of the funding for these types of programs. In Canada (and the US for that matter) there is shared responsibilities so both the province and the feds should be doing their part.

    Here in Ontario our government is pushing a green energy agenda which includes a power generation system that has a very low carbon intensity, and a green transportation agenda that gives subsidies to EVs and funds EV charging stations. We have paid a high $ price for this and some people hate the government for these types of programs. But if you believe strongly in these then you should encourage your government to do the same. Given that you have a new government of the NDP and Green Party they should be very amenable - unlike SK which is openly hostile to all things Green (other than the Riders).

    Let's not get into a discussion of equalization payments because that really has nothing to do with the overall topic of Governments promoting EVs.
     
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  10. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    That's a good analogy you use when it comes to health care and transportation. What you have rightly shown is that the provinces carry out the details, like licencing, maintenance, etc. whereas the federal government plays the role of determining what is best for the collective people of Canada. For example, the federal Health Care Act of Canada mandates the conditions and criteria with which the provincial and territorial health insurance programs must conform to in order to receive federal transfer payments under the Canada Health Transfer. The same applies to transportation, perhaps even more so, since greenhouse gases don't stay within a province.
     
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  11. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    Wow. They've got to be kidding. This is like the Libs announcing that they're going to spend the next year developing a strategy to choose the best possible gun, while the war has been running for 5 years and the bullets are flying all around.

    Sheesh. Leaders... yeah.
     
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  12. RiverBrick

    RiverBrick Active Member

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    To date, the Federal ZEV infrastructure funding has spent more on hydrogen stations (1.625 million towards two in the GTO) than on CHAdeMO/CCS (estimated 1.25 million for 40 stations).
     
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  13. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    That's my guess. Toyota manufactures in Canada. Tesla doesn't. Plus, a major retooling of the auto industry to build EVs is nothing but a headache for the Cdn government. They're (rightly) concerned about where all of these now plants would go. The Canadian government would undoubtedly have to be into the thick of things, ensuring that Ontario doesn't lose out.
     
  14. Phillip L

    Phillip L Gas Passer

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    Maybe pony up some incentives for Gigafactory 4, or 5 or X somewhere in Canada?
     
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  15. TrevTremaine

    TrevTremaine Member

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    With Trump's possible announcement of pulling out from the Paris accord, maybe look to relocation production of vehicles to Canada as well.
     
  16. Phillip L

    Phillip L Gas Passer

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    Well it certainly would seem that Canada would have more advantageous free trade ties to the rest of the world than the US once The Donald finishes severing all free-trading pacts with the rest of the world.
     
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  17. deonb

    deonb Supporting Member

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    Follow me, I'm right behind you!
     
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  18. Lex

    Lex Member

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    Driving in and around Toronto on Friday I saw no fewer than 13 Tesla cars on the roads, and a few other EVs as well. We are already accelerating in the right direction and making a difference.
     
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  19. TrevTremaine

    TrevTremaine Member

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    Let's see what the situation is like in about a year. I'm interested to see the impact of the Model 3 around Toronto. I'm certainly seeing a fair bit more cars in my area in the past 3-4 months.
     
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  20. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    I've seen a grand total of 1 "in the wild" sighting of a Tesla here in S'toon. Perspective is in the eye of the beholder. The people in this province are so backwards there was a revolt when the City of Regina floated putting up some level 2 charging stations in public parking lots. "Why should my taxpayer's money go toward giving people free fuel! Nobody buys me gas! There's a grand total of 5 EVs in Regina!"
     
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