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Canadian supercharger rates

Discussion in 'Canada Supercharger locations' started by SmartElectric, Jan 12, 2017.

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  1. Paul Carter

    Paul Carter Active Member

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    Some math for the 90 and 100 packs (<1% to 90%) for British Columbia (BC) and Ontario (ON)

    90 Pack: ( 70 minutes charging from bottom of pack)
    30 minutes >= 60 kW @ BC: 28 cents: $ 8.40 / @ ON: 26 cents: $ 7.80
    40 minutes < 60 kW @ BC: 14 cents: $ 5.60 / @ ON: 13 cents: $ 5.20
    Total: @ BC $ 14.00 ( ~ 18.7 cents / kWh) / @ ON: $ 13.00 ( ~ 17.3 cents / kWh)

    100 Pack ( 65 minutes charging from bottom of pack)
    50 minutes >= 60 kW @ BC 28 cents: $ 14.00 / @ ON: 26 cents: $ 7.80
    15 minutes < 60 kW @ BC 14 cents: $ 2.10 / @ ON: 13 cents: $ 5.20
    Total: @ BC $ 16.10 ( ~ 18.5 cents / kWh) / @ ON: $ 14.95 ( ~ 17.2 cents / kWh)
     
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  2. evotorentals

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    Montreal
    Has anyone figured out the cost per KM in Quebec?
    Say you use 20,000 or 30,0000 KM in a year.
    What is the annual dollar amount you will spend on Superchargers if you didn't charge at all at home or office

    (I am trying to calculate worst case scenarios for our Tesla rental fleet and if our customers only charge at the supercharger stations).

    Attached are a few calculations I got from the sales guys at Tesla Montreal:

    Thanks,
    Evoto Rentals
    IMG_2516.JPG IMG_4078.JPG IMG_6307.JPG IMG_7532.JPG
     
  3. mrElbe

    mrElbe Active Member

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    Real rough estimate is CAD$ 1,500.- for 30,000 km of Supercharging.
     
  4. evotorentals

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    mrElbe
    Thanks for your input.
    Do you mind sharing how you calculated it.
    The people we spoke to said it would be roughly 800 dollars.

    It seems all calculations are per time, so Tesla said it will cost roughly 12 cents per minute while we are trying to get the cost per Kilometre.

    thanks!
     
  5. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    I am somewhat torn on this. On one hand, I would prefer to pay for the actual units I am buying (kWh). On the other hand, these Measurement Canada metrology rules are the same ones that apply to gas station pumps and butcher scales... it is important to protect consumers from fraudulent or at a minimum, inaccurate measurement devices when consumers are paying by these units. I am not sure where Tesla is recording the kWh units from, but I suspect it is the car. In my experience and testing, the kWh's reported by the car are not what I see when measured by a known good meter, and at CHAdeMO stations, the kWh on the station NEVER match the kWh reported by the car.
     
  6. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Not quite. 8.7 cents is the non loss adjusted, non taxed rate for the commodity (electricity) only. When you add the various volumetric delivery and regulatory charges, uplift by your utility's loss factor and apply HST (even with the provincial portion removed) it works out to about 12.86 cents per kWh Off-Peak.

    EDIT: Yes you can set your timer to start charging after 7:00 PM weekdays or any time on weekends and holidays to take advantage of Off-Peak rates.
     
  7. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    That's fine. Presumably there's some sort of accurate voltmeter/ammeter in the charging station itself. These are not high tech devices, nor do they require the regular calibration associated with a mechanical instrument such as a flow meter. Presumably there can be some Measurement Canada standard for the construction and installation of such devices. The US seems to manage it.
     
  8. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    I am a retired utility VP and had responsibility for Metering and Billing (among other areas). Both electromechanical and electronic metering devices actually do require periodic re-verification testing, and some of the newer electronic meters actually require it more frequently. Mostly electromechanical meters fail "slow" (the gears and wheels get gummed up and turn slower than they should) while electronic meters can fail either "fast" or "slow". There are indeed Federal Measurement Canada approved meters that would work. Many were developed for use in bulk-metered apartments to allow for individual suite metering and can be installed in sub-panels. They don't have to be the big round meter you see on your wall to be approved. I just don't believe Tesla is utilizing them.

    There is also the Ontario requirement that one needs to be a licensed electricity retailer... but Tesla could get a license if they wanted to. Again I assume they just haven't.
     
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  9. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    Of course, Schneider, Cutler and these guys make units that could be retrofit, but I struggle to believe that there isn't already something of equivalent capability already within the chargers. What are they doing in the US where they're already starting to charge by the kw? I haven't heard that they're retrofitting the superchargers with additional hardware. I can't see why Canada should be more demanding than the US in this respect.
     
  10. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    The US regulations vary by state unlike Canada where the metrology regulations are federal. If you look at US supercharging rates, some states are by the kWh and some are by the minute... just like in Canada. In the US, it is more common to allow utilities (and presumably other electricity retailers) to verify their own meters whereas in Canada, meters have to be sealed and tested/verified by a certified Meter Service Provider shop. So yes, Canada is more demanding but what do you do? Relax the metrology regulations for all or just Tesla?
     
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  11. InternetDude

    InternetDude Member

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    Ha ha. I know Elon said it but I'll believe it when it shows up on the Supercharger map. I e-mailed the SC team to let them know about that in case they missed it LOL
     
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  12. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    It will be interesting to see what happens at places like the Kelowna supercharger where there are superchargers and two 80 amp HPWC's. I can see people who don't have free supercharging, and are staying at the hotel, going shopping or for dinner, etc. opting to plug into the free HPWC's because why spend the money when time is not an issue? Also, now with the idle fees even people with free supercharging may opt to use them instead, especially if you have dual chargers @ 80 amps and you plan to go and do things for a while (not a nice thing to do if you let your car sit at them when finished charging but people still do it). I used to wonder who would ever use them once the superchargers went in -- but not anymore. I bet they get a lot of use in the future.
     
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  13. Lon12

    Lon12 Member

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    Those chargers in Kelowna have issues with folks eating and staying at the Hotel not having any idea what an EV is: :(
    ICED.png
     
  14. 11thIndian

    11thIndian Member

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    Can the police ticket for ICE's in EV charging spots?
     
  15. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    This two-tier by the minute process is an attempt to shoehorn a "pay by the kw" intent into "pay by the minute" regulations. And because of the varying vehicle charging curves, it does a poor job. People will be paying significantly more or less for the same amount of power. No system for measuring actual power consumption could possibly be worse.

    At a minimum, I'd say that mobile applications are a bit of a different category than home utility service, and could be treated differently, allowing the provider to do this work. If there is a process that works in other jurisdictions, I'd certainly have no issue following suit.

    And, if it's been proven effective elsewhere, I'd have no issue even going that way for regular home utility service. I'd be okay with eliminating some process and bureaucracy.
     
  16. hingisfan

    hingisfan hingisfan_Mark_V

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    What
    What's a better alternative where they can't charger per kwh? Seems pretty reasonable to me what they came up with. Much better than a flat per minute fee, regardless of charge speed.
     
  17. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    It is reasonable given the law. It's the law that's unreasonable.
     
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  18. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    TLDR : Tesla is being quite fair with their pricing and approach IMHO.

    Tesla is matching what non-Tesla charging already does in Canada, which is generally billed by the minute as well.

    Example:
    PlugShare
    This is a FLO dual CCS/CHAdeMO station that charges by the minute.
    $10/hour charged by the minute = $0.16/minute.
    This is in the middle of the Tesla charging rates in the same region (Ontario).
    However, this charger outputs 50kW peak, half the power of Tesla supercharger, so converted to $/kW or distance driven price would likely to average out to 2x what Tesla charges.
     
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  19. evotorentals

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    Montreal


    Of course you can / should charge at home.
    But what if you live in a condo of an old building that is refusing to allow you to install a wall charger or pull from regular electricity outlet in the garage and their excuse is that its a really old building with low electricity?
     

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