Cancelling my reservation

[alloverx]

I'm old enough that it was stamped on my first car's sill.

But that's basically inside, you don't see that without opening the door. I would't call that "badging" in the proper sense.

Same with the GM "Mark of Excellence". The "GM Mark of Excellence" sticker was used even later than 1972, into at least the 80's. It's possible that GM used a sticker even later than that in occasional cases?

P.S. Ironically the "Mark of Excellence" tag line on those stickers got explicitly called out by the National Advertising Review Board.

From nytimes article from 2009 we have

"G.M. apparently no longer thinks so. So it is removing the “G.M. Mark of Excellence” logos from all its Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC models. The logo had been a fixture on all G.M. vehicles since 2005."

 

[alloverx]

I haven't been following all the car makers but I doubt Tesla has a monopoly on lithium, cobalt and other EV battery components. Exciting times indeed. I will most likely go with AWD so I'm not going to bother with the upcoming Leaf but I'm also not going to kid myself into affording a Jaguar I-Pace so I'm leading more towards waiting for the BMW's to come out and compare how the Model 3 will be holding up by then. 2020 means late next year.

• 2019 60 kWh Nissan Leaf
• 2019 Electric Mini
• 2020 iX3 and i4GC
• 2021 Infiniti

Lots of EVs for sale by 2021 but where will the demand be in the USA?
-likely price crash

And yes I would like an electric 4-door GTI or S5.

 

[internalaudit]

Lots of EVs for sale by 2021 but where will the demand be in the USA?
-likely price crash

And yes I would like an electric 4-door GTI or S5.

Not every one in the world is dirt cheap or poor like a few of us here, including myself. I will definitely splurge a bit on a BEV as long as I think it's reliable enough to outlast some of my current ICEV (Honda's and Toyota). It also opens up the opportunity to go German when most of the issues that plague those are in the engines and transmissions (well hopefully, they do get to sort out the electric Gremlins too).

It's not like most government are covering more than 20% of the purchase price on the cheaper BEVs.

 

[Snerruc]

The dubiousness of the trade-offs of that battery choice for the Model S, and whatever motivation you'd like to ascribe to offering it to start with, aren't really material to your assertion the M3 SR will never get delivered. Fact is all the people that had signed up and chose to buy the 40kWh MS were sold one, at the price stated. It was even available for some time after that.

This completely undermines your assertion that the Model 3 SR won't ever be sold, that the people that have reserved an SR won't ever see one.

Your screed notwithstanding.

-- -- --
P.S. The 40kWh Model S had a much smaller percentage of people that it made sense than the Model 3 SR, which is sufficient range for wide swaths of driving public. So you are double heaping your nonsense, your link between the two cars was broken from the start.

EDIT: Hilariously for your overall view on how much Tesla loathes and abandons their customers, Rather than sticking them with a MUCH higher cost for upgrading or forcing them to trade in the car for a new one, Tesla offered the few hundred that did by the 40kWh battery option the chance to pay for the unlocking the bigger battery capacity they'd been shipped anyway.

I know a guy who has a 40. He is still quite happy with it. Very few problems over the years, and Tesla delivered the car he ordered and serviced it for free even though he is in the middle of the pacific. I don’t get people complaining because Tesla delivered even more than they promised ie. the locked 60 battery.

 

[daniel]

Well, the "40" Model S actually was never made and the limited 60 kWh sold in its place was never out on sale beyond the initial orders. It was pretty much a higher-end model sold limited to fulfill existing orders.

Not exactly a normal case of "did ship".

The point here is that Tesla made a commitment and fulfilled that commitment. You've been suggesting that Tesla will default on its commitment by not delivering the SR to customers that have reserved one and put down their deposit. It does not matter how few were delivered. What matters is that Tesla kept its promise.

Tesla has always kept its promises, excepting only production timelines.

You cannot believe anything Tesla says about production dates. You can trust them on all other promises. There was very little demand for the S 40. There is very big demand for the 3 SR. They will meet that demand, and everyone who has a reservation before an announced price change will get the car for the promised price.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

You've been suggesting that Tesla will default on its commitment by not delivering the SR to customers that have reserved one and put down their deposit.

I have not been suggesting any such thing, it must be some other poster you refer to. Can you post a link if I have been sloppy with some post?

I fully believe Model 3 will be a success, a 35k SR version included - though I have believed that to likely be late. I have consistently maintained this opinion for several years now.

A limited-time offer like Model S "40" - basically a "commitment fulfiller" like you put it - would not fit this belief of mine at all. All I was saying now was that the 49.9k Model S is not a great example of Tesla delivering, because if that would be how Model 3 SR would go down, it would not go down well with the market.

A good thing, then, that I don't believe that is how Model 3 SR will happen. Model 3 SR will be nothing like Model S 40.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I re-iterate my point: the market would hardly like it if Model 3 35k price point would turn out to be as limited and temporary as the 49.9k price point for Model S was.

Your point is ..... well, dumb. Setting aside your attempt to split semantic airs with "initial commitments", only roughly 4% of Model S orders at time were for the 40kWH. This is so deeply disjointed from the M3 SR situation (so far it's looking like a plurality if not outright majority of owners are delaying ordering for some form of SR, mostly explicit for the reason of SR) that trying to tie to suppose what "the market" (I assume you mean stock market pricing of TSLA?) would think reality falls apart here because why such path would happen isn't obvious, and the factors that created the situation where TSLA dropped the M3 SR would be entirely material to reaction to it.

 

[JRP3]

JRP, sorry to get off subject here. I never noticed that vehicle you have as your aviator. I remember getting in one of those when I was young, they are awesome but have not seen one in 40 years. Do you own one?

My first EV conversion, an early 70's Attex converted to a 48V electric forklift motor, Alltrax golf cart controller, and 4 Odyssey AGM batteries. I've since added a plow to it for snow and dirt. Working on upgrading it to lithium since I've scavenged the batteries for two other garden tractor projects.

 

[JRP3]

It did not remain on sale beyond early reservations.

Right, they dropped the low margin, low take rate product. Again, why would the market not like that? (Obviously the market liked it very much since Tesla has never been demand limited and the stock price has gone up significantly since they dropped the 40)

 

[JRP3]

I have not been suggesting any such thing, it must be some other poster you refer to. Can you post a link if I have been sloppy with some post?

This certainly could be read as a suggestion of that very thing:

Well, the "40" Model S actually was never made and the limited 60 kWh sold in its place was never out on sale beyond the initial orders. It was pretty much a higher-end model sold limited to fulfill existing orders.

Not exactly a normal case of "did ship".

The market would hardly like it if Model 3 SR turned out the same.

 

[Surfer]

Tesla from the very start has been unable to meet production deadlines. All their cars ship later than originally promised. But when they are shipped, they are exactly as promised. Other car makers cut corners on quality and/or service to meet deadlines or just to increase profits. Tesla breaks its delivery date promises in order to be sure of delivering quality cars. To be sure, if Musk asked me for my advice, I'd advise him to set reasonable production goals and then add a couple of months so that people are surprised by early delivery rather than late. But he's a chrono-optimist, to use a phrase lifted from a friend of mine.

Every single person who reserved and is on the waiting list now, or who reserves before a different price is announced, will be able to buy a base Model 3 for $35,000. And with adjustments for inflation, the Model 3 will continue to be available at that price. There is nothing in Tesla's history to suggest otherwise. Just the understandable frustration of the ever-present delays that have been a characteristic of Tesla from the beginning.

How do you know they will still deliver the $35k car. I think Elon just makes stuff up. Solar city merger was pure fantasy.

 

[daniel]

How do you know they will still deliver the $35k car.

Because the only promises they've ever broken have been production/delivery dates. Tesla has never been able to bring out a car on time. But in every other respect, they've treated their customers honestly. They made a promise. They've never broken their promises except on timing. Tesla told the people who reserved that they could have the base car for $35K, and to fail to do it would be a huge broken promise. Musk is a terrible chrono-optimist, but he's not a man to go back on his word.

 

[ℬête Noire]

.....makes stuff up. Solar city merger was pure fantasy.

Well that's some irony, right there.

 

[JRP3]

Solar city merger was pure fantasy.

Um, it actually happened, so, not fantasy but reality.

 

[McRat]

I seem to recall that our ‘72 Nova had a GM emblem on the sill plate. Either that or the ‘69 LeMans. Could be mistaken but I remember that blue and silver.

Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Chevrolet, etc, all had badging indicating the brand. Yes, there was a small GM logo on some years in various places, but the brand badging was not GM. That was unique to the EV1. That was it's 'brand'. It was not a Saturn or a Chevrolet, although the S10EV was a Chevrolet.

 

[brkaus]

I've always wondered if the flat earthers are just getting a kick out of trolling, or if they are really so blinded by belief that nothing could ever change their mind. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they're just trolling. But at the same time, scientific literacy is in the dumps these days.

I have the same question, but when I'm at a fancy museum looking at some splatter on the wall and the person next to me says how great it is...

 

[ℬête Noire]

I have the same question, but when I'm at a fancy museum looking at some splatter on the wall and the person next to me says how great it is...

....you realize they might see something you don't, or are looking for something you aren't?

 

[MXWing]

The fundamental theorem of Economics is:

"Allocation of limited resources with unlimited wants".

While demand outstrips supply for vehicles more than $35K, we won't see a $35K vehicle.

 

[McRat]

I'm not cancelling my Model 3 reservation. I signed up knowing the future is never written in stone, and the concept of an EV that is 'average' priced for the masses yet has >200 miles of range, great performance, and is stylish will get a lot of folk to at least TRY an EV next time they go car shopping. If I lose a grand to assist that? I've spend more on dinner to be honest.

But... I had given myself some parameters. I wanted a new small (not mini) EV with good performance for my birthday. I wanted one that weighed under 3800lb, so it's close enough. I fully expected it to be >$50k. The second timeline bump killed the birthday plans. I received more solar panels, a more efficient air compressor, and weekend in Vegas to see Elton John for my birthday instead.

I don't pay scalper fees for concerts or cars, or I could have bought the Model 3 pretty easy. But it's like cutting line, something I won't do; it's how I was raised. I won't even use most FasTrak lanes because of the same reasons, if everybody must wait except the rich, I won't do it. Yeah, I can afford it, but it's tacky, especially in California where we advertise we treat everybody as equals. I'll wait my turn like the proletariat must. Now for FasTrak routes that have no proletariat lanes, sure.

It's not like our family doesn't already drive 90+% EV miles and generate far more power than our cars use, so my Model 3LR wouldn't be saving any whales. In fact the solar expansion / air compressor will do more good than buying a Model 3 if you believe short distance commuters are the real reason for windmills.

Now to wean myself off the board. Always a toughy for me. They don't make 'Stop Forum' patches or chewing gum, and they haven't raised the taxes on them. Yet.

 

[ohmman]

I'm not cancelling my Model 3 reservation. I signed up knowing the future is never written in stone, and the concept of an EV that is 'average' priced for the masses yet has >200 miles of range, great performance, and is stylish will get a lot of folk to at least TRY an EV next time they go car shopping. If I lose a grand to assist that? I've spend more on dinner to be honest.

But... I had given myself some parameters. I wanted a new small (not mini) EV with good performance for my birthday. I wanted one that weighed under 3800lb, so it's close enough. I fully expected it to be >$50k. The second timeline bump killed the birthday plans. I received more solar panels, a more efficient air compressor, and weekend in Vegas to see Elton John for my birthday instead.

I don't pay scalper fees for concerts or cars, or I could have bought the Model 3 pretty easy. But it's like cutting line, something I won't do; it's how I was raised. I won't even use most FasTrak lanes because of the same reasons, if everybody must wait except the rich, I won't do it. Yeah, I can afford it, but it's tacky, especially in California where we advertise we treat everybody as equals. I'll wait my turn like the proletariat must. Now for FasTrak routes that have no proletariat lanes, sure.

It's not like our family doesn't already drive 90+% EV miles and generate far more power than our cars use, so my Model 3LR wouldn't be saving any whales. In fact the solar expansion / air compressor will do more good than buying a Model 3 if you believe short distance commuters are the real reason for windmills.

Now to wean myself off the board. Always a toughy for me. They don't make 'Stop Forum' patches or chewing gum, and they haven't raised the taxes on them. Yet.

You almost got through that without making some kind of California political reference. Good effort.

I am in the situation where I can't justify replacing my already-quite-awesome 2014 Model S P85 with a Model 3, just to get a smaller car. I don't live in a place where I'd use AP except on road trips; that's what the X is for. So it's really just about a more compact car, and it hasn't made sense for me.

I've kept my two reservations and I'm going to wait for AWD and see what family members might want to replace their cars with EVs at that time.