Cancelling my reservation

[Galve2000]

My wife, backed by her moms group friends, wants our next car to be an Acura RDX, Audi Q5, or Volvo XC60.

Yes please just buy your wife a Q5 and be done with it. They are good cars. The EV revolution will come to your doorstep at some point. But today is not the day.

At this point, I believe, you really need to give her the car she wants. If she’s not already a Tesla fan, she will just nitpick all the “problems” with the car after delivery until it makes you crazy. It wouldn’t matter if it had an espresso maker built in, it won’t be good enough.

I also have to echo the above. especially since you are stretching your budget to buy even the base Model 3 -- and are further banking on the tax credit. Your wife will probably find that the Model 3 lacks the fit and finish of other cars in this price point. I felt the same about the Model S when I 1st became interested b/c I was used to driving around in Mercedes and Range Rovers that have a much more refined interior at the same price point.

But I wanted to be part of the future. so I made the trade off. your wife may not be willing to do the same.

I would look closely at the Chevy Bolt. in is an EV, it is well reviewed, you get similar range as the Model 3 (no supercharging, so your road tripping abilities are limited, but you have a second car for that.) And you can collect the $7,500 tax credit no problem.

oh.. wait...

if you really are stretching your budget to buy the base Model 3, are you sure you have enough annual tax liabilty to claim the entire $7,500 tax credit? I would speak to an accountant. I used drive a leased Chevy Volt and would hang out at the GM-Volt.com forum where you often got posts saying things like "I don't think I qualify for the full $7,00 tax credit" or "my credit isn't that good" -- I expect to see much more such post on TMC as Model 3 production hits its stride and non Tesla owners are given the option to configure.

Finally, I get your frustration. It would be so much better for you if only 20,000 or 30,000 people reserved on Day 1. You would get your car much faster. But that's not what happened here. cold hard supply and demand has put your EV dream on hold for now. it sucks, but don't know if I can blame Tesla or Elon Musk for this. The Model 3 is an amazing car. I hope you one day are able to get your hands on one. Until that day, there is a "vent your frustrations here" thread somewhere on this forum.

 

[bro1999]

As of 10:30 AM ET time, there are 251 new BMW 3 Series for sales across the country with a list price of less than $35k.

That's 251 more $35k 3 SEries than $35k Model 3s.

 

[flamingoezz]

Make that two of us.
I reserved the model 3, but the baby is here and the model 3 is not. my old 2-seater wouldn't work so we bought an xc60. i recommend it if you're going the ICE route.

Mar-May, though who knows what that estimate is worth?

A $35k Tesla with the full federal tax credit is the only Tesla that fits into my budget. I stood in line for hours outside before the store opened to reserve one. I will have a 2nd child by summer and need a car slightly larger than our Acura ILX to accommodate our larger family before the kid is born. For almost 2 years, I planned on that car being the $35k Model 3 (two rear facing car seats fit!). My wife, backed by her moms group friends, wants our next car to be an Acura RDX, Audi Q5, or Volvo XC60. So this delay doesn’t just mean another likely canceled reservation, it also means another terrible gas mileage ICE SUV purchase. I’m sick.

 

[N5329K]

Try as I might, I'm reminded today of an experience I had with Stupid Dealer Tricks (SDT) and the Gen 1 Prius.
Like Model 3, it was heavily pre-ordered. Like Model 3, there was a long wait for delivery. I was patient (I still am). The delivery week slowly heaved into view. Now, where was my Prius?
"Delayed another six months," said the dealer. "There's just so much demand the factory can't ship them out fast enough. But..." (and here comes the SDT), "If you take the floor model (maxed out with expensive options, only a few of which I had any use for), you can drive off the lot today. How about that?"
I actually considered it. I even looked at the sticker price details. What jumped out at once was the pinstripes. Now pinstripes on a Prius are silly, but paying $148 for them? Not happening.
I canceled my order with that dealer and bought it elsewhere, just a few months (not six) later.
That was classic SDT. I don't think Tesla is guilty of that (despite some of the harsh language here). What they are guilty of, I think, is trying to run the company from within the Elon Distortion Field, where very aggressive and far-sighted goals can be achieved by wishing them so. Eventually, reality does assert itself (as it did when the "How hard can it be to strap three Falcon 9's together and make it fly?" became clearer by half a billion dollars). I'm also reminded of the old Navy joke about the captain of a carrier steaming off Scotland at night ordering another ship off his bow to give way, only to discover the "ship" was a lighthouse, and it wasn't giving way, thank you very much.
As Martin Eberhard, one of Tesla's founders liked to say (wisely), Software is easy. Cars are hard. You can't type your way out of a production bottleneck. You can't OTA patch fix a product with insufficient margins to cover your cash burn. It's got to be done in the real world. Not in the world of hopes and dreams. Tesla has discovered this, and wishing it wasn't so will not put a base Model 3 in my garage anytime soon. By the time it would, waits will be shorter and competing options available.
So good luck, Tesla. I wish you well. Your mission (electrifying transport) is off to a terrific start. When you began not one other manufacturer was thinking about an EV. Now, nearly all of them are. That's big.
But I'm stepping off this voyage.
Robin

 

[T34ME]

Mmmm, yet you seem to be deliberately ignoring my question. If you cancelled your reservation last year, saying you were going to the AG ... did you make another reservation? And why? You were so upset the last time.

Bonnie, I fixed his deception, at least on my account!

 

[TheMaverick]

@TheMaverick, you said the same thing last year! You “cancel” day of earning call. Makes me think your trying to stir the pot. I’m headed to bank today to wire more money to buy more stock!

LOL no bud that must have been someone else, I hanged on as long as I could. While the waiting journey had plenty of ups and downs. Me and my wife were just happy to be part of it and If I can provide $1000 (which is pennies for Elon) towards the revolution of EV I feel like like I was worth it (and you get the money back in the end!).

 

[Swift]

Swift anyone who makes graphics to demonstrate how a company is fraudulent or is repeatedly disappointing them has lost the joy of the drive really has lost site of the purpose of TMC in my opinion. Your feelings are valid, and youre entitled to them. I just think Tesla is awesome. Not perfect, but really really really awesome. Which is why I am writing this from my car. Hmmm. I think we all learned something today

Butter, I want Tesla to be awesome. I believe in the vision. I love that they are a US company restoring some credibility to US auto manufacturing. But they don't operate well outside the vision. Tesla has stepped beyond what is reasonable in their marketing and sales practices. They need a Tim Cook to run the company day to day and keep Elon promoting the vision sans commitments and bad business practices.

I’m confident that most people here sincerely do not want to assume the worst, me included. However, it’s hard to do otherwise given Telsa’s track record and lack of credible communications.

 

[fluxemag]

Good thing the My Tesla page is still down. I’m an early S owner so I’ve waited before, but last night completely killed any excitement I had for this car. I literally spent yesterday preparing my current car for sale because I thought we were getting close on the SR. But now I’m “late 2018”, and spent the evening researching puts. I can only hope for the sake of the company they have so many LR orders they don’t want to start SR yet.

 

[Zythryn]

i thought the intent was to bring the EVs to the masses....

This would be incorrect.
The goal was to "speed the adoption of sustainable transportation".
Tesla has already succeeded in this, and they are trying to do so even more.
They have pushed much of the auto industry to speed up, or even start their own EV programs.
They have also shown the public that EVs don't have to mean overgrown golf carts. They helped change the general perception of what an EV is.

The rest of this is not targeted at you, I simply use your comment as an illustration.
Many hear have inserted their own interpretation of what Tesla has said, into their reality, and then been screaming holy murder when Tesla doesn't deliver on their own interpretation.
Tesla never "Promised" anyone would get a Model 3 by any date.
They did give estimates, on what they believed they could do. Yes, their goals were set very high, and in many cases, they didn't reach them.
No, this does not mean they had malevolence in their hearts, or intentions of committing fraud.
When undertaking a project of this complexity, with so many moving parts and people, and other companies involved, sometimes S#^% happens.

Tesla learns from its mistakes, and fixes them. Does it happen as fast as we want, no. Could it happen faster? Perhaps, but if so, no company has been able to do so.

I understand the disappointment, and I don't blame anyone for cancelling their order.
I would suggest that people hold off on anything they can't reverse for a few days. Let yourself get over the initial impact of the news before doing anything you may regret.

 

[diamond.g]

i thought the intent was to bring the EVs to the masses. if by masses, you mean upper middle class, then elon succeeded. with this delay, EVERY one of the 200K teslas delivered with a full tax credit in the US will be to those who can afford a $45K car (or much greater). All of those fringe buyers looking for an EV they can be excited about for under 30K after incentives, and put their 1K down almost 2 years ago are going to be disappointed. It is really a shame that the bulk of these tax incentives miss the people who needed it the most.

No clue why congress didn't limit the tax rebate to folks making under a certain amount of money (see California) or for cars that cost under a certain amount (see Germany).

 

[mwu]

I understand there are some down-trodden hopes here. I am also disappointed and have been before with Tesla, but I can't handle being too angry about it. I wrote a comment with more detail on Tesla's forums: https://forums.tesla.com/forum/foru...-seriously-are-we-not-worthy/#comment-1345689

 

[Dr. J]

I’m not cancelling but I’m beyond frustrated. I listened to the conference call and I again hear Elon throw out time frames which are entirely unrealistic. For example be talked about coast to coast self driving in 3-6 months with simultaneous release to customers. Yeah, right. I appreciate his optimism and drive but he needs a lesson in the basic business principle under promise, over deliver. My window is now May-July but if you look at the ramp I have a gut feeling I won’t see it until the end of the year.

I'm willing to bet your gut $10 it's wrong. Could be foolish on my part, admittedly, but I think if you're ordering first production, you'll take delivery in 2018, based on the information in your post.

 

[Dr. J]

Has there ever been another case of any auto maker anywhere in the world only wanting to make their most expensive and profitable versions of a car, and refusing to make the base model?

Sure, it has happened repeatedly in the US market, especially with econoboxes that existed solely for CAFE purposes--i.e, the cheap versions were made only under regulatory duress. Now they just want to make pickups and SUVs because the margins are so much higher than with passenger cars.

 

[LCR1]

i thought the intent was to bring the EVs to the masses. if by masses, you mean upper middle class, then elon succeeded. with this delay, EVERY one of the 200K teslas delivered with a full tax credit in the US will be to those who can afford a $45K car (or much greater). All of those fringe buyers looking for an EV they can be excited about for under 30K after incentives, and put their 1K down almost 2 years ago are going to be disappointed. It is really a shame that the bulk of these tax incentives miss the people who needed it the most.

Most people who are reaching for and expecting the credit to help with the $35K purchase price can't use the credit anyway. It's a non refundable credit meaning you have to owe $7,500 in taxes AFTER all of your other deductions in order to qualify for all of it. that means a single person making north of 50K. I picked up this latest Tesla in December, filling out the tax forms I'd get back $253 when I first started my taxes, now that I'm pretty much finished I'll get $0 from any EV credit because I owe nothing.

 

[gekcut]

In case anyone is wondering about how long it is taking to get a refund, we cancelled one of our family's reservations on 1/9 and received a check on 1/20.

 

[206er]

Most people who are reaching for and expecting the credit to help with the $35K purchase price can't use the credit anyway. It's a non refundable credit meaning you have to owe $7,500 in taxes AFTER all of your other deductions in order to qualify for all of it. that means a single person making north of 50K. I picked up this latest Tesla in December, filling out the tax forms I'd get back $253 when I first started my taxes, now that I'm pretty much finished I'll get $0 from any EV credit because I owe nothing.

Fortunately (or not given yesterday's news), our tax liability has and will continue to be greater than $7500, even with 2 kids under the new child tax credit. Real shame that Tesla has essentially killed my dream of buying a nice looking* EV for the pice of a decently optioned Civic.

*The "nice looking" criterion disqualifies the Bolt, Volt, and Leaf from consideration - my wife would never go for a weirdmobile. Barring a Model 3 lease option, we will wait for the real car companies to roll out their EV offerings over the next 3-5 years.

 

[Dr. J]

most those who reserved a $35k car on Day One are now listed as 2019 or later.

Not me. I was a late morning (11:30 AM ish) line waiter well after the initial deluge, and mine shows Late 2018 for SR. I know some have been bumped to Early 2019, but not sure if it's "most."

 

[DR61]

I picked up this latest Tesla in December, filling out the tax forms I'd get back $253 when I first started my taxes, now that I'm pretty much finished I'll get $0 from any EV credit because I owe nothing.

I don't think you understand what a tax credit is. It applies to your total liability, not what you owe at filling time.

 

[LCR1]

Fortunately (or not given yesterday's news), our tax liability has and will continue to be greater than $7500, even with 2 kids under the new child tax credit. Real shame that Tesla has essentially killed my dream of buying a nice looking* EV for the pice of a decently optioned Civic.

*The "nice looking" criterion disqualifies the Bolt, Volt, and Leaf from consideration - my wife would never go for a weirdmobile. Barring a Model 3 lease option, we will wait for the real car companies to roll out their EV offerings over the next 3-5 years.

Your income puts you well out of the range of the typical base model buyer.

 

[LCR1]

I don't think you understand what a tax credit is. It applies to your total liability, not what you owe at filling time.

I know exactly what a tax credit is.