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Can't decide between Model S or Audi S6

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by derekt75, Oct 27, 2012.

  1. derekt75

    derekt75 Member

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    I got the finalize email a month ago, but haven't pulled the trigger.

    I was just out looking at the BMW M5 and Audi S6 today (well, and a Hyundai Genesis, but that was a waste of time).
    Those ICE cars are really impressive. 0-60 in 3.7s?
    and they've got all kinds of features like adaptive cruise control and folding mirrors, a well thought out interior with storage and cupholders, and just a nice solid well thought out feel to them.

    The S6 would fit much better in my garage and is a lot cheaper than the 4.4 second Model S, so I was starting to lean toward cancelling my reservation and getting the Audi.

    On my way home, I saw a Model S parked 3 doors down. I rang the bell (I had never met this neighbor before), and he gushed about his new car and gave me a ride around the block (averaging about 15 mph).

    Anyway, here's how I see the relative advantages:

    S6 advantages:
    faster
    smaller
    nicer interior
    more features
    cheaper
    4WD

    Model S advantages:
    no transmission (instantaneous power for passing, no jerkiness)
    very well done traction control (power is cut and replaced very quickly)
    fewer parts that need maintenance/replacement
    HOV lane access in California
    no more gas stations, nor worrying about being late and being close to empty
    lower energy cost
    coolness factor

    My brother was trying to tell me that no longer needing a gas station was a minor perk while not being able to drive more than 5 hours without needing to spend 30-60 minutes charging was a major setback. (I make about one long drive per year and we've always used my wife's ES350). This is actually rather pushing me toward buying the electric car, because I think people should just get over this way of thinking that makes so little sense to me. If my family already has an ICE, why do I need a 2nd? My brother says because I wouldn't enjoy driving hours on I-5 on cruise control as much in a ES350 than in a S6 or Model S. I'm not convinced any car would be particularly "fun" to leave on cruise control for several hours straight.

    Anyway, why have most of you chosen the Model S over some of the amazing ICEs available for $100k?
    Have you driven those cars, or have you just decided that Tesla is the way for you without doing much research?

    thanks,
    Derek
     
  2. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    Hey Derek, you may have seen some of the polls/threads from a few weeks ago about how much more folks are shelling out for the Model S when compared to all the cars that they had purchased in the past. To summarize that, many folks are spending 2x, 3x and even 4x the max that they had ever done before for a car and in some cases, the sum of all their previous car purchases put together!

    Simply put, it's not a numbers game at all when comparing against ICE cars in the same price ballpark or otherwise. Many of us are simply not interested in a very fancy, gadget-filled ICE car mainly because of the ICE factor. If there were no Model S in this world, most of us would be quite satisfied with a well-appointed sub-$40K run-of-the-mill sedan.
     
  3. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    There are two points that I will make. And a third generalization.

    First your S6 is going to consume hundreds of dollars of premium fuel every month. I use up over $300 in my GTI every month. I will use about $25 in electricity. This is worth over $15,000 over my payment period.

    Second the S6 is capable of doing 3.7 seconds. You won't really be able to do 3.7 seconds. The Model S anyone can do 4.4 seconds (and 3rd parties are really right at 4 seconds).

    But mostly driving electric is so much nicer. It is quiet. It is clean no oil or gasoline, no soot. It is so smooth. It is so responsive. The quality of the drive is SO much better. And all those gizmos, will you really use them? I know I wont.
     
  4. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    Hey Derek,

    I am not sure about the Audi cars yet, but I test drove a Mercedes S550 yesterday just so I could compare the driving experience.
    After driving the Model S, the S550 drove like a dog. It lumbered to a start, the car handled poorly in comparison (due to the size and weight I assume). And yes, it has heaps and gobs of 'toys'. Some more useful than others, none of which I will miss and a couple I would like to see in the Model S 2.0.
    The interface was awful, although I have no clue what the Audi interface is like.
    With a reservation, you really should go test drive, so you can compare yourself.
     
  5. jkirkebo

    jkirkebo Model S P85+ VIN 14420 EU

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    I'll go further; if there was no Model S I would just buy the cheapest car that could fulfill our needs. I wouldn't want to spend more than just enough on any ICE car. Probably we would just keep our 8 year old VW TDI for another 8 years.

    Instead I am spending 2,5x the previous max we paid for a car on a Model S P85 :)
     
  6. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Having suffered through VW ownership experience, I'd never purchase another or anything connected with them. The maintenance was 22 cents per mile over the 95,000 miles I kept it and it was always in the shop, had to be towed, etc. For me the Model S over an Audi is a no-brainer.

    Not having to go to a gas station and always starting out in the morning with a full tank is a major perk.

    Driving for three hours and having a comfort or food break for twenty to thirty minutes is pretty normal regardless of vehicle type. And for you it's a once a year trip so I don't see the inconvenience.

    Here are couple of things to think about:

    1. An electric car doesn't support OPEC countries, many of which aren't friendlies, and keeps jobs at home.

    2. A BMW M5 is considered by some to be the pinnacle of sedan technology and the culmination of 25 years of automotive design, yet the Model S with four years of design is very close to being equal (depending on what you consider important it might slightly better or slightly worse). So at the start of the modern electric car era, the electric car already meets or exceeds the best ICE cars. This pretty-much regulates ICE cars to being the modern horse-and-buggy mode of transportation.
     
  7. SCW-Greg

    SCW-Greg Active Member

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    For many of us, this car is advancing the auto industry, breaking the grip of Oil, helping with energy independence, geo-political security, environmental causes, etc. etc.

    No car, for me, provides so very many reasons to purchase this vehicle.

    But if for you, it is more of a numbers issue, consider this... in my case (each of us will have different results), I conservatively calculate that I will save $22k in gas and engine maintenance over the course of 5 years. That's compared to the current car I'm driving, which is averaging 19mpg, and driving 56 miles 5 days a week, plus some weekend trips here and there.

    If you back out those kinds of electricity vs. gas and ICE costs on your Model S, you might begin to find this a bit more compelling.

    Edit: Ha! Looks like we all jumped on this thread at once, with many of the same ideas. ;)
     
  8. Lyon

    Lyon 2016 S P100DL, 2016 X P90D

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    According to the Audi website, the A6 0-60 time is 4.5 seconds. It's got a DSG so you shouldn't have a problem launching it. They're saying that it'll average 20mpg and runs on premium fuel.

    Things seem pretty equivalent 0-60 wise but you'll go through a lot of gas in the process.

    If you haven't already taken a test drive of the Model S I would highly recommend it. There's nothing quite like the feeling of having all the torque available at 0 rpm and whenever you want to pass. The DSG is quick but it still needs to shift when you step on it.

    I've already ordered my Model S and the S6 was never a consideration but I'd go Model S if I were you.
     
  9. derekt75

    derekt75 Member

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    yes, the price of gasoline is an issue. In CA, gasoline is well over $4/gallon. PG&E would charge me $0.40/kWh, but SolarCity produces the bulk of my electric needs so I'm dropped into the $0.20/kWh. I drive about 12k miles per year, so that's about $2000/year savings in gas. Over 5 years, it's $10k. If you include the $7500 tax credit, Model S is only a little more pricey than an $80k S6.

    Why would I not be capable of getting a 3.7s 0-60 in the S6? I can floor the pedal as well as the next guy, I think. Is there something else I need to do?

    Model S is extremely quiet under 20 mph. Over 40 mph, I'm not sure there's a difference even when flooring it.

    Many gizmos on the S6 would be regularly used. like center console storage. or cruise control that doesn't need to be cancelled and re-started when the car in front of me is doing 65 mph in the left lane. or parking sensors that would help me get my car turned 90° into my garage.

    Is the quality of the drive SO much better to you? Have you driven both?
    I've driven both, and the quality of the drive was unbelievable to me on both.
    It is true that the S6 spends a large fraction of a second downshifting when I hit the gas whereas the Model S just goes. That is a huge advantage for the Model S. Other than that, though, the two perform incredibly well.
    On the flip side, the S6 truly does feel faster.
    In either car, at a red light, you can floor the gas pedal while taking a right, and the car will essentially do what you want it to while accelerating incredibly fast.
    Both feel incredibly well behaved around corners or over bumps.

    I appreciate Zythryn's perspective that the S550 is a dog compared to the Model S. I wonder if Zythryn had driven the MB E63 (or M5 or S6) if he would have arrived at the same conclusion.
     
  10. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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  11. Francis Lau

    Francis Lau P-1456

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    I have driven the Model S several times and while waiting for my delivery, I have test driven the Audi A8, A7 and the Porsche Panamera. We also have an Audi A4 at home and because of having a great relationship with my Audi dealer, I had the loaner Audi A8 for a day to try it. All 4 ICE cars are nice but they feel different, they feel much rougher. I think the biggest thing for me is that I never have to buy gas and that the car is so quiet. It just fits my personality too - I like fast and efficient but I hate being noisy i.e. everyone look at me while I speed off!

    I can buy many cars that can go 0-60 at sub-5 seconds, but only one can do it with total silence and smoothness. Finally, I love technology so the Model S feeds my inner geek too. :biggrin:
     
  12. pguerra

    pguerra Member

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    #12 pguerra, Oct 27, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2012
    Being one of the most skeptical towards the Model S, let me say why for me the scales are slightly tipped in favor of purchasing the Model S. I've also driven an E63 AMG:

    1) All gas cars are clunky, dirty, smell bad, and have many things that can break down. So in the end, all gas cars are the same no matter what bells and whistles are included. Have you felt the clunkiness of an E63 AMG when you floor it? When you floor it, it jerks you around before you finally get going, makes a deafening noise in the process, and guzzles gasoline putting you another step closer yet again ....to the gas station for the inevitable fill up on premium gas. This occurs every single time you floor it. On the other hand, punching it on the Model S results in smooth, instantaneous, quiet power...and you can do it over and over and over again without the fear or guilt of knowing you're going to have to visit the gas station for premium gas soon. Now which is more fun to drive?
    2) Model S interior is spacious, simple, with clean lines, minimal buttons, and no silly quasimodo hump down the middle of the car. It even has storage space in the front where a dirty, clunky gas engine would be located.
    3) I never make road trips like you, perhaps one time a year (if that). If I do, I take the Hybrid Escalade if less than 3-4 hour drive or else I fly. Maybe if the Supercharger network is deployed here in Texas, I'd take more road trips due to the novelty of it and b/c it would be free to charge!
    4) Regarding speed, who cares? E63 AMG, M5, Model S, Panamera...they're all the same...0-60 in less than 5 sec. That's fast enough. Who cares if Tesla is 0-60 in 4.0 sec or 4.4 or 3.9? My mind doesn't notice the difference; Model S is plenty fast like those other gas guzzlers.
    5) Model S vs M5 drag race on YouTube
    6) Model S real world driving on YouTube
     
  13. SCW-Greg

    SCW-Greg Active Member

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    Now that's what I've been waiting to see. Would love to see it against several of the top cars at once... With and without launch control.

    Thanks Pguerra!
     
  14. derekt75

    derekt75 Member

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    Good feedback for me, folks, thanks.

    On that Model S vs M5 drag race, it sounded like the M5 wheels were skidding.
    and that very well might be typical: that much torque from the engine in 1st gear has got to be hard to keep stuck.
    The S6 I drove never had trouble with grip on launch. Maybe that was the all wheel drive helping out.

    Regardless, I see the point: Model S really is fast.


    Now here's a physics question for you:
    If my driveway is 28 feet wide, my garage door is 95 inches wide, and my car needs to turn 90° from the driveway into the garage, can the Model S make this corner without needing to back up? If yes, how much margin for error do I have?

    Actually, it's unclear the S6 would do any better. With the all wheel drive, it's turning circle is 39' compared to Model S's 37'. Either way I'm going to miss my current 32' turning circle. :-(
     
  15. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Hey Derek,

    As an owner of an A6 (not the S6), I can attest that its a fine car and a smooth driver (I actually prefer driving it over the r8 since its so much smoother and comfortable). The A6 is on the chopping block if we take delivery of the S and realize that we like it. I will say that I, like you, considered what I'd be giving up (adaptive cruise, HUD, folding mirrors, cooled seats, storage and the great Audi interior), and, sadly, since I don't have mine yet I can't help and say definitively YES or NO.

    I will say that I expect the S to be cooler in the tech field than the A6 even with the above missing, and I'm hoping some things can be retrofitable (is that a word?).

    It's also been a while since I drove the S, but if memory serves me correctly, it was a lot smoother and for that, felt very fast (it actually IS faster than an a6 so there's that).

    The range anxiety issue is real IMO. I think many can deal with it, but to completely dismiss it just to push EVs would be a bit disingenuous. It'll take a bit more planning for certain situations, but that may be a crux for some. No longer can u look down at the dash, go *doh* and find a gas station for a 10 minute pit stop. Superchargers will help with this, but will need time to become more ubiquitous.

    I'm still going forward with the S, but I guess I'm in a slightly different position of already having my '6, so it's not an immediate either-or scenario. I say if you can deal with the range anxiety and the omission of some tech, you should end up with a better car. Only you can decide what your tolerances are though, as the S does cost more and there will be some trade offs.
     
  16. Mkent

    Mkent Member

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    Derek,

    We have the Audi (my wife's car). In short, it is a great car and probably one of the finest ICE cars out there. We bought it over Mercedes and BMW. However, after our test drive, we elected to order a Model S and a Model X for our family. We will be saying bye to a BMW M6 and an Audi S6. Why you may ask? Definitely the ICE car are more refined, but we were more amazed by Tesla's Model S then any car we have ever driven! We walked away from our test drive believing this car could be a real game changer in the automobile industry and we wanted to be a part of it! Finally, with 4 kids, we wanted to send a message to them about helping make a difference in this world because Tesla is definitely doing it!

    Good luck with your decision

    Mark
     
  17. spatterso911

    spatterso911 MSP#7577 **--** MX#1891

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    Hi Derek,

    I've walked a mile in your shoes, and I know how complex the decision is that you are facing. I currently drive an E60 M5, and was considering the F10 M5 as my next car. Funny, a year ago, it was a foregone conclusion. Despite this, I became more interested in Tesla and decided to place a reservation. After test driving the P85, I was thoroughly impressed enough that it cemented my conviction to get the car. I will admit that, due to my history with the M5 (this is my third version), I still have twinges of doubt. But one thing keeps my conviction true...

    Remember what it was that drove you to reserve a Model S. Whether it is the tech, styling, cachet, environmental impact, future lessons for your family, or pure economics, there are things that attract you to the car that are not present in the other models that you are considering. Now, the other cars may offer things that are not currently present in the Model S. If their value supersede the value of the things that brought you to Tesla, or you cannot reasonably handle the change required by the Tesla, by all means go with the Audi or BMW. If not, the choice is simple.
     
  18. bint2k

    bint2k Member

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    The range anxity thing bothers me a bit. I'm not sure how many drivers here actually drive more then 5+ hours at a time, and on a regular basis? Also i think a 30 min stop in those 5+ hours is reasonable. Let the kids out, wife out, dogs out etc…. =)
     
  19. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    If you drive for five hours with no stops you will be charging for longer than thirty minutes. The Supercharger paradime, according to Elon, is drive for 150 miles (2-3 hours) and charge for thirty minutes. That's pretty normal for how I drive on trips regardless of vehicle type. 10-14 hours of driving (total time including stops) in a day is not unusual, but not without stops for food, fuel, or comfort.
     
  20. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    Where did you get the 3.7 sec 0-60 for the S6 from? :confused:

    According to the Audi US website:

    http://models.audiusa.com/s6-sedan/detailed-specifications

    …(and if not already displayed, choose the flap (?) labelled ”Engine”) the S6 does the 0-60 in 4.5 sec (as Lyon also pointed out in post #8 earlier in this thread).

    In comparison BMW lists a 4.2 for the M5 with the 7-speed Double Clutch:

    BMW M5 Sedan - Features & Specs - Specifications - BMW North America

    …and we’ve both seen how a drag race between the Model S and the M5 turned out.

    I’m betting the Model S Perf. will spank the S6 as well at both 0-60 and 0-100. And if it doesn’t, well then I reckon it’s going to be one really close race.
     

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