Can't decide between Model S or Audi S6

[AnOutsider]

I suggest you move here and buy a Model S.

Surely you jest. This is circumstantial at best.

The maintenance costs don't get interesting until the Audi is out of warranty in 4 years - I am confident Audi will have no advantage in this area.

Audi Care on an S6 is around $880 I believe. That takes care of maintenance up to 45,000 miles. 50k miles on a Model S is $2400 if you pay each year, or like $1600 (if my memory serves right) if you pay in advance. Still around double at the minimum.

We don't know Model S maintenance costs above 50k, but the S6 from 45k until 75k is $1200 with Audi care. All in there you'd spend $2,080 on scheduled maintenance up to 75k miles and $2,400 on the S up to 50k (or $1600 if you prepay). The dirty, complicated gasser with all the moving parts and transmission comes out ahead.

The unknowns there, of course, are the S costs above 50k and the random items that aren't covered under the routine maintenance packages.

How can you not take gas into consideration? It is the most expensive part of owning a low mpg, premium guzzling performance car. Premium gasoline is well over $4 a gallon here, and any reasonable projection has it over $5 after your warranty is up.
The gasoline cost over 4 years is well over $10000.

As I said, I don't own an S6, but I get something like 22-25MPG on average in our A6 -- but yes, it does get costly to fill up. I threw in gas because that's the ONLY way in my mind the S comes out cheaper than the Audi -- though, your original post implied purchase cost.

I don't know...That S6 interior picture kind of makes me want an S6.

Yep, I love Audi interiors. That interior isn't more cluttered than many I've seen, and the most important buttons are all tied to muscle memory by now. The little 1 2 3 4 5 6 thing is a contextual touchpad with a backlight. In that mode it can choose a quick radio preset. Jump over to the nav map (also Google earth) and it turns into arrows for you to scroll the map with. This car is no tech slouch

 

[swegman]

Pguerra, some would argue that your indications of progress are actually steps backwards. Many contend that analog records sound better that CD's or digital files. Most people will agree that MP3 files are inferior even to CD's. Many audiophiles will argue that tubes sound better that solid-state (and likewise, that class A amplification sounds better than class D digital amplification). Similarly, many see component video cables as being superior to HDMI cable, which were "forced" upon consumers mainly to implement a copy protection scheme to prevent the recording of HD video programs on devices like JVC's HD VHS recorder (which used a 1394 interface).

 

[dsm363]

The TCO analysis of two $70k+ vehicles is interesting but the decision should probably come down to which car you like the best overall. The Model S economics don't totally work out at this point (although fuel savings may help a lot in some cases) but that's not why I love the Model S so far. It's just so much fun to drive and the 17" screen is out of this world. I've never driven the S6 so can't comment on that but I'm sure that is a great car as well.

 

[swegman]

I've owned corvettes, Lexus, Infinity, MB and Audi cars, among others. There have been only 2 cars that I regret not having kept (I usually only keep cars for a few years); the corvette and the Audi A6. The Audi A6 quatro system inspires unbelievable confidence in the vehicle. It can apply anywhere from 25% of the driving force to each wheel up to 100% to a single wheel. You can not go wrong with the Audi, it has many more safety features than are currently available on the model S and, in my opinion, a nicer interior.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Model S is a great car, but I think it is still a work in progress. I have a reservation for the Model S, but I want it to be further developed before I get it. I don't want to deal with s/w bugs and updates, and retrofitting of features (i.e., sunvisor, etc.).

Both cars are exceptional vehicles. Yes, the Audi uses gas. But that gives it the advantage (at the present time) of having an unlimited travel distance with minimal refueling time. When (if) Tesla installs Superchargers throughout the U.S., this Audi advantage may disappear, although one will not be able to recharge the Model S as quickly as filling the Audi with gas.

As for cost savings of the model S vs. the Audi, that depends. As I noted, I keep cars usually only for a few years; getting rid of them before the warranty expires. So for me, the maintennance charge for the Tesla wipes out any savings offered by the Model S in not using gas. Also, the service plan for the Audi is negotiable. My dealer provided my Audi A4 and A6 with maintennance for no charge. However, your "mileage" may vary.

 

[richkae]

Surely you jest. This is circumstantial at best.



Audi Care on an S6 is around $880 I believe. That takes care of maintenance up to 45,000 miles. 50k miles on a Model S is $2400 if you pay each year, or like $1600 (if my memory serves right) if you pay in advance. Still around double at the minimum.

We don't know Model S maintenance costs above 50k, but the S6 from 45k until 75k is $1200 with Audi care. All in there you'd spend $2,080 on scheduled maintenance up to 75k miles and $2,400 on the S up to 50k (or $1600 if you prepay). The dirty, complicated gasser with all the moving parts and transmission comes out ahead.

The unknowns there, of course, are the S costs above 50k and the random items that aren't covered under the routine maintenance packages.



As I said, I don't own an S6, but I get something like 22-25MPG on average in our A6 -- but yes, it does get costly to fill up. I threw in gas because that's the ONLY way in my mind the S comes out cheaper than the Audi -- though, your original post implied purchase cost.



Yep, I love Audi interiors. That interior isn't more cluttered than many I've seen, and the most important buttons are all tied to muscle memory by now. The little 1 2 3 4 5 6 thing is a contextual touchpad with a backlight. In that mode it can choose a quick radio preset. Jump over to the nav map (also Google earth) and it turns into arrows for you to scroll the map with. This car is no tech slouch

My original post said total cost of ownership. I didn't specify a time period. The Model S Perf is somewhere between 0 and $10k more expensive at time of purchase depending on your state's incentives ( but assuming the $7500 credit ). The difference in maintenance cost over the first 4 years changes the number by a tiny amount. However the cost of gasoline will erase the total difference within those 4 years.
After those first 4 years the maintenance costs are unknown, but not nearly as important as the difference in fuel cost.

As others have said, at this price point, the TCO comparison is usually not nearly as important as satisfying your other criteria.

 

[pguerra]

Pguerra, some would argue that your indications of progress are actually steps backwards. Many contend that analog records sound better that CD's or digital files. Most people will agree that MP3 files are inferior even to CD's. Many audiophiles will argue that tubes sound better that solid-state (and likewise, that class A amplification sounds better than class D digital amplification). Similarly, many see component video cables as being superior to HDMI cable, which were "forced" upon consumers mainly to implement a copy protection scheme to prevent the recording of HD video programs on devices like JVC's HD VHS recorder (which used a 1394 interface).

I realize there are purists out there, and you can't please everybody:

1) Perhaps for those people who prefer dirty analog hiss over clean digital sound, cassette tape is better for them over MP3.
2) For those who prefer purity of caring for animals and a quiet ride, a horse and buggy is for them and not a gas car.
3) For those that prefer dirty, loud, gasoline smelling, unsmooth acceleration, the Model S isn't for them.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and no one is forcing anyone to purchase Model S over a luxury premium gas guzzler.

 

[smorgasbord]

The Model S Perf is somewhere between 0 and $10k more expensive at time of purchase depending on your state's incentives ( but assuming the $7500 credit ).

My math is often bad, but I'm seeing the difference in price as much greater. The list price of the cars differs by $28K ($103K vs $75K). Take $7500 off Model S, and add $6450 for sales tax on S6. That still leaves a difference of $14K. In CA, there is no sales tax advantage, but you get $2500 back if you buy while the rebate is funded, so difference there is $19K (since you're paying sales tax on the rebated amounts).

If my current car would last 3 years, I'd probably be best served with a Model S v3. By then I expect Tesla would have many of the driver's safety and convenience technology that Audi has today. Then I'd only have to deal with less headroom and excess exterior width.

Back to styling, compare these pictures quickly:

 

[strider]

I have two things to add. 1) I agree w/ pguerra on cars and audio/video progression (though I am on the fence about HDMI). 2) Shouldn't you be comparing the S7 to Model S and not the S6?

 

[derekt75]

I have two things to add. 1) I agree w/ pguerra on cars and audio/video progression (though I am on the fence about HDMI). 2) Shouldn't you be comparing the S7 to Model S and not the S6?

Probably. but I'd rather have the S6, and I started the thread.
I guess that's one more issue I have with the Model S is that it's not really the body that I wanted.

If I could buy a car where they took the gasoline engine out of the S6 and dropped in Tesla's electric motor and battery instead, I would have spent my $100k on the car a month ago. Instead I'm being forced into making compromises if I want to go electric.

Putting solar on my roof required no compromises.

 

[dsm363]

Probably. but I'd rather have the S6, and I started the thread.
I guess that's one more issue I have with the Model S is that it's not really the body that I wanted.

If I could buy a car where they took the gasoline engine out of the S6 and dropped in Tesla's electric motor and battery instead, I would have spent my $100k on the car a month ago. Instead I'm being forced into making compromises if I want to go electric.

Putting solar on my roof required no compromises.

True. Tough call. You just have to make the decision that makes you happy. I'd argue buying a gas guzzler has other external compromises but that's a larger picture thing. Just looking at the cars, the S6 is very nice and beats the Model S in a few areas I'm sure. The electric drive, never having to go to a gas station or support the importing of oil for my fuel and the 17" screen are what put it over the top for me. Either way you'll have a sweet ride so no way to go wrong really.

 

[VolkerP]

Do you live in Maryland, Delaware, or Virginia? The Model S will help make Sandy go away.

 

[pguerra]

It seems that the OP's main criteria are:

1) Valuing the interior amenities of an S6 more than the value of going electric.
2) Valuing the exterior style of the S6 over the Model S.

Not much can be done about #2 (although I have to say I like Model S exterior - it's different, but not so bold to attract too much attention), as this is just personal preference.

Regarding #1, this is what is keeping most people, myself included, sort of on the fence. I'm in the camp that thinks that Model S is close to being an acceptable value, but with bugs and lack of other amenities compared to other $100k cars, it really may be better to wait for version 2.0. It is important to note that despite not having certain comparable interior amenities to other cars, the Model S does have the huge amenity of being electric that others don't have, of course. So that brings one back again to the main question: what does a reasonable buyer prefer - better interior amenities and no bugs/hardware issues or an electric drive train?

B/c I value quality and absolutely minimal bugs (read: reliable vehicle), I still question the decision to purchase Model S verion 1.0 myself. I am just hoping I'll be pleasantly surprised, but that is probably a set up for disappointment.

 

[rcc]

Probably. but I'd rather have the S6, and I started the thread.
I guess that's one more issue I have with the Model S is that it's not really the body that I wanted.

If I could buy a car where they took the gasoline engine out of the S6 and dropped in Tesla's electric motor and battery instead, I would have spent my $100k on the car a month ago. Instead I'm being forced into making compromises if I want to go electric.

Putting solar on my roof required no compromises.

If you'd rather have the S6, buy the S6. End of story.

The Model S is a great car but it's not for everyone. There are a number of things about the car that have different value to different people. The minimalist interior, the big touchscreen, the electric powertrain, the handling characteristics, the big roomy interior, etc.

Frankly the Model S is a bigger car than I'd prefer but given my circumstances, I need a bigger sedan that I'd prefer.

If the S6 suits your needs and preferences better than the Model S, buy the S6.

 

[NigelM]

Instead I'm being forced into making compromises if I want to go electric.

If you want an EV, you're compromising on an ICE.

 

[pete8314]

I'm late to this thread, been reading it on my iPad nut only now logged in on my PC so that I could refer you back to a similar thread I started (S7 or Model S...)

There's a lot of interesting opinions on there, I think they helped me to decide to stick with the Model S (either S85 or P85 - undecided on that currently). I still wobble every time I go visit the Audi dealer for my weekly car wash, but that's really just by virtue of the fact I live just down the street. The A/S6/7 is a great car, but, for me at least, it was still a very conventional choice, and I'm willing to take a bit of a chance with the Model S. We all know it drives great, we all hope that the software will quickly get up to speed, so my only real concern is the residual value since I do not tend to hold on to cars for much longer than 3 years, so I'll likely get burned on that, unless I somehow end up keeping it for 5 or 6+ years.

 

[Lyon]

Back to styling, compare these pictures quickly:

So Hyundai copied Tesla (at least superficially). If you don't mind my asking, what's your point?

 

[smorgasbord]

So Hyundai copied Tesla (at least superficially). If you don't mind my asking, what's your point?

My main point is that styling of these cars is now being determined by the god of Aerodynamics. Hyundai is claiming a Cd of 0.25, which is just 0.01 off from Tesla.

If you think aerodynamics are the overriding consideration, then this is a great way to style a car. If you prefer more function or even just a distinctive style on your $100K vehicle, you might prefer a different design.

 

[ModelS1079]

Audi: nice car.good company. Really enjoy seeing ten to twelve every morning heading to work.
Tesla: epic engineering achievement, America's best workers, ground-breaking ingenuity and an entirely new automotive platform, stunning design in and out, faster than the M5, but twice as efficient as a Toyota Prius, another car I enjoy seeing 12-15 times daily.
But the Audi is a nice car.

 

[v12 to 12v]

I had my eye on the Audi R7. They called it the Sportback. Then I found out that they were not going to release it in the US.
A couple days later I stumbled onto the Model S. It looked like a sistership.

After I learned about the Model S performance and and took into consideration the fringe benefits associated with an EV I was intrigued.
The space in the Model S was mind blowing in comparison to anything else in a performance vehicle. The fact that it was made in the US got me to commit to the deposit.

Not a moment's regret ever, especially after the test drive. It was the substantial, powerful and agile car I was after. Now there is no going back.
The fact that I didn't have to go through the dealership experience was a bonus, and in its place I found a community!

I've been pretty spoiled when it comes to cars. It's tough trying to replace a V-12 and the Model S managed exceed my performance expectations.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

derekt75, you’ve got sun panels on your roof, yet the environment does not seem to place very much – if any – weight on your scale when it comes to the choice of your next car. The only viable explanation for this that I can think of is that you just can’t be aware of the severity of the situation that the scientists tells us that we’re in. Unfortunately I’m no expert in any way, but as I understand it the US has one of the most distinguished climate scientists on the planet: James Hansen. And even though I’m no expert, when I listen to what he and the others in the overwhelming majority of the scientists says, my conclusion can only be that according to the scientific evidence, the planet as we know it clearly is at stake.

Here’s three links to James Hansen appearing in news media. The one’s with video all include transcripts:

Climate change is here and worse than we thought - The Washington Post

James Hansen: Why I must speak out about climate change | Video on TED.com

Censoring Science: Inside the Political Attack on Dr. James Hansen and the Truth of Global Warming

And here’s one example in the news of the latest reports regarding this years record low arctic ice sheet levels:

Arctic expert predicts final collapse of sea ice within four years | Environment | guardian.co.uk

As I understand it, in a worst case scenario, where you’re currently hooked up to the “dirtiest”, most coal-fuelled power grid in the US, the Model S is still going to emit 50% less CO2 per mile than an S6. But since you have solar panels on your roof that does not seem to apply to you. So in your case, how much less CO2 would a Model S emit per mile compared to an S6?

Also, wouldn’t it feel good to be able to give a virtual finger to the regimes in Saudi Arabia and Iran et al.? I mean, just look at the record of their human rights abuses… (Granted, I’m presently not versed (?) in how the current sanctions are impacting Iran’s oil or gasoline exports…)

Given all of the above, if I had the choice that you have, and having the conscience that I have, there is just no way I could possibly justify choosing an S6 over a Model S. There just isn’t.

And regarding the storage and cup holders. Here’s someone who’s working on a center console insert, and who appears to be doing a really good job as well.

Soflauthor's center console insert - Page 15

Ok, so you may have to make compromises. But would it really be such a big compromise? I mean, it’s not like I’m asking you to take the bike.

And finally; Maybe there’s a way you can widen the driveway into your garage just a bit. But regardless, as you describe it that passage seems to be doable (even if it may be a little tight).