Can't decide between Model S or Audi S6

[ToddRLockwood]

@smorgasbord

I think you might have missed a fairly important piece of the Audi's service cost...

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From Audi's web site:

As an owner of a new Audi 2013 model year vehicle, you will receive:

• The first scheduled maintenance service at 5,000 miles or twelve months, whichever comes first, free of charge
• Four years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first, new vehicle limited warranty
• Twelve year limited warranty against corrosion perforation
• Audi 24-hour Roadside Assistance for four years

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AS NOTED ABOVE, the first scheduled service at 12 months/5K miles is free, but the remaining scheduled services are not. And neither are any service issues not covered by the warranty, such as brake pad/rotor replacement - which would likely be needed on a car of this performance level by 50,000 miles. I own a 2002 Audi S6, and I can tell you that these cars are not inexpensive to maintain, even when the warranty is still in effect. There are many wear & tear exceptions, not to mention routine maintenance. In contrast, everything except tires is covered on the Model S out to 4 years/50K miles for $1,900.

After the warranty expires, during years 5-10, I believe the Model S will particularly stand out for its low maintenance costs. My S6, which now has 120K+ miles, has needed among other things a radiator replacement, a transmission replacement and a suspension rebuild. If I didn't enjoy the car so much, I wouldn't have bothered.

 

[AnOutsider]

Todd, you forget Audi care. For less than half of Tesla's cheapest option, your maintenance is covered for 50k miles. its been covered up thread.

 

[Doug_G]

Suppose it takes 10 seconds to plug in the Model S. That's still ~300 seconds per month for a nightly plug-in (~200 for only weeknights), so 5 minutes (4 minutes). You're not really saving that.

10 seconds is reasonable - that is how long it takes to plug in my Roadster (I've timed it), although to be fair my HPC is on the far side of the car so that's probably an upper limit!

Even so I'd far rather spend a few seconds in the comfort of my own garage every day than fill gasoline even once a year in a howling blizzard!

 

[pete8314]

Todd, you forget Audi care. For less than half of Tesla's cheapest option, your maintenance is covered for 50k miles. its been covered up thread.

I've also never bought an Audi, new or used, without negotiating at least 3 years maintenance for free. It's an easy give-away for the salesperson to secure the deal. Of course, depending on your point of view, that's either the 'fun' part of buying from a traditional dealer, or a PITA part.

 

[Norbert]

Society isn't doing things that cost $10 to save a ton of CO2, and yet you really think that it is sensible for an individual to decide to pay $20k extra on a car to save some 40 tons of CO2?

For me it's not so much about how much CO2 a single Model S saves in the current situation, but about jump starting a new technology which together with renewable power, solar and wind, will bring mid-term and long-term a *huge* reduction of emissions (and fresh air in the cities). It will also help developing battery technology, its range and price, to the point where eventually all (or most) cars and trucks and maybe even ships and planes will also be electric.

 

[Zythryn]

Forget the so called price premium.
The drive experience in the model S is simply superior. For me, that alone is worth the price difference.

If the Model S won't fit in your single garage door due to the angle of your garage, don't get it. But as for which car, in and of itself is 'better', in my mind there is no question, the Model S has no competition from Audi (although they are probably the best out of any ICE I have driven).

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

If the Model S won't fit in your single garage door due to the angle of your garage.....

get a different house?
mortgage rates are pretty low still

 

[Norbert]

Todd, you forget Audi care. For less than half of Tesla's cheapest option, your maintenance is covered for 50k miles. its been covered up thread.

However Audi Care doesn't include wear and tear parts (except maybe oil), which Todd just said are not inexpensive even while under warranty.

And if you make even just one long trip per year (like SF-LA), the free SuperCharger might save more that $500 compared to an ICE (over 4 years).

 

[smorgasbord]

And if you make even just one long trip per year (like SF-LA), the free SuperCharger might save more that $500 compared to an ICE.

What ICE would you be driving? At 15 MPG, an 800 mile round trip is less than $225 at $4/gallon.

 

[AnOutsider]

However Audi Care doesn't include wear and tear parts (except maybe oil), which Todd just said are not inexpensive even while under warranty.

This may be true, but we don't have nearly enough information to make a decision on the value of that. What exactly is replaced? If we go just on what they currently outline:

Replacement parts like brake pads and windshield wipers (excluding tires)

As has been said in the past, how often do you need new brakes (especially with regen)? I think I've had mine changed on the Q5 once in 3.5 years and not yet on our A6 (1.5 years). Wipers are cheap. Tires is where the money is for me usually (just spent 300+ because of a nail in a tire), and Tesla doesn't cover those

 

[Norbert]

What ICE would you be driving? At 15 MPG, an 800 mile round trip is less than $225 at $4/gallon.

$225 would be $900 in 4 years.

- - - Updated - - -

As has been said in the past, how often do you need new brakes (especially with regen)? I think I've had mine changed on the Q5 once in 3.5 years and not yet on our A6 (1.5 years). Wipers are cheap. Tires is where the money is for me usually (just spent 300+ because of a nail in a tire), and Tesla doesn't cover those

So how much did you pay for new brakes (and/or brake pads), including work and everything ?

We would be comparing to Audi maintenance costs (which of course doesn't have regen, and doesn't seem to include tires either), and in any case Todd didn't sound like he would be talking about brake pads and wipers only.

 

[pete8314]

$225 would be $900 in 4 years.

- - - Updated - - -



So how much did you pay for new brakes (and/or brake pads), including work and everything ?

We would be comparing to Audi maintenance costs (which of course doesn't have regen, and doesn't seem to include tires either), and in any case Todd didn't sound like he would be talking about brake pads and wipers only.

In 3.5 years of owning my A5 (low mileage though, maybe 30k), I've never paid a cent to Audi for any maintenance...it's been back there 3 times for scheduled maintenance (and one time they did replace the wipers - no charge, and oil and other fluids are always included), but brakes are still good, not even close to needing replacement. That said, it's an Audi, and they tend to have electrical issues (In the past couple of weeks I've had random errors for the light motors, and fuel level sensor), so I'd be very wary of not having a maintenance plan on my A5, or any other car.

 

[Norbert]

In 3.5 years of owning my A5 (low mileage though, maybe 30k), I've never paid a cent to Audi for any maintenance...it's been back there 3 times for scheduled maintenance (and one time they did replace the wipers - no charge, and oil and other fluids are always included), but brakes are still good, not even close to needing replacement. That said, it's an Audi, and they tend to have electrical issues (In the past couple of weeks I've had random errors for the light motors, and fuel level sensor), so I'd be very wary of not having a maintenance plan on my A5, or any other car.

If you haven't encountered those replacements yet, with below-average mileage, then it just means you don't know what the costs are, yet.

 

[RichardC]

From my perspective this is a no-brainer. An opportunity to drive the future, or staying stuck in the past. Before learning about greenhouse gas emissions and global warming, I had driven performance vehicles and still have a GL Mercedes (diesel) and BMW convertible. My last two cars have been Prius', as these were the highest performance sedans (when measured in terms of mpg and CO2 emissions) then available. The Model S is a top performer in all categories, and those of us having the good fortune to be able to afford one should purchase one (or more) to support the overdue evolution of the automotive industry from fossil fuel to electricity.

Hurricane Sandy, and the other crazy weather events of the past few years have confirmed in spades that we have get off oil, ASAP. Each Model S is a step in the right direction.

 

[Norbert]

Continuing from my message above, if you go here for an edmunds.com estimate of costs for the S6, you'll see that maintenance (and repair) costs are dramatically increasing over time, especially in year 5 (but also year 4) :

2011 Audi S6 5.2L V10 AWD 6-speed Automatic True Cost to Own

 

[pete8314]

If you haven't encountered those replacements yet, with below-average mileage, then it just means you don't know what the costs are, yet.

Well, not really. I'm not keeping the car past year 4 (when the current maintenance plan expires), so my costs are zero for anything and everything, aside from tires and battery.

 

[Norbert]

Well, not really. I'm not keeping the car past year 4 (when the current maintenance plan expires), so my costs are zero for anything and everything, aside from tires and battery.

Unless you are leasing, the costs are reflected in the resale price you can get. And even if you are leasing, your mileage is more typical for year 2. Plus those costs will be reflected in the parameters of the leasing contract itself. If you look at the link to edmunds.com above, you'll see that the year 2 cost doesn't say anything about the year 4 cost.

And if you say "zero" cost, you are letting the maintenance contract fall under the table, at the least.

 

[pete8314]

Unless you are leasing, the costs are reflected in the resale price you can get. And even if you are leasing, your mileage is more typical for year 2. Plus those costs will be reflected in the parameters of the leasing contract itself. If you look at the link to edmunds.com above, you'll see that the year 2 cost doesn't say anything about the year 4 cost.

And if you say "zero" cost, you are letting the maintenance contract fall under the table, at the least.

True, but the 'free' maintenance was agreed after I negotiated a price I was happy with for the car, so conceptually at least, it's free. In reality it just ate away at the dealer's margin a bit, but it's still of no cost to me, and I felt I got a good price on the car. Depreciation over the 4 years I will end up owning it nets out at $4k per year, based on projected trade-in value next April.

I'm really not trying to make a case for Total Cost of Ownership, or for Audi, the point was really that with Audi, maintenance is negotiable. With Tesla, it is not. When comparing an A6/7 to a Model S, I personally assume that Audi maintenance is zero, Model S is $600 per year (I probably will not pre-pay). There's loads of other factors at play, such as depreciation, which for Audi is predictable, for Tesla is really is not. That's before all the other considerations and emotions come into play. I'm keeping my model S reservation, but if you're trying to compare costs, and environmental considerations are not your #1 reason for buying a Tesla, then I can see why it's a tough choice. The A6 is cheaper no matter how you look at it, and is also an Autocar COTY winner.

 

[Norbert]

True, but the 'free' maintenance was agreed after I negotiated a price I was happy with for the car, so conceptually at least, it's free. In reality it just ate away at the dealer's margin a bit, but it's still of no cost to me, and I felt I got a good price on the car.

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense to me. The dealer could as well have said you get the sound package ($5,900) for $900 less. You simply negotiated the complete price of the car. Maintenance is never free, whatever the dealer tells you.

As an aside, it seems the discussion, in general, is not considering repair costs (as opposed to maintenance) at all, which are (hopefully) much lower for an EV. While checking out various web pages, I saw another "wear" part are sparks and spark cables, about $200 for an average car, per 100k miles, but that probably pales in comparison to average repairs and replacements in general.

 

[rcc]

$200 for spark plugs and cables??? You clearly haven't paid for service on a BMW or Mercedes . Last time I checked (and it was a while ago), a spark plug cable (comes with integrated coil) was over $150.

That's parts cost only. No labor. And that's cost for one (1) cable+coil.