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Can't turn off auto wipers or high beams? [on autopilot]

The old hardware does not have enough cameras. Not that more cameras gives them the ability to really replace the radar but gives them enough to pull off this BS.
If range is not an issue there are alternatives from more mature manufacturers. Given Tesla record things will only get worse, not better.
It's not enough to force me to ditch Tesla yet, I say yet only because they are doing a good job about pushing me as a customer away from buying another vehicle. More so when I see what the competition has coming if it ever materializes. The thing I hate about traditional auto is the dealerships, some are good but some are outright con men. I've a bad feeling when I'm out of warranty I'll be forced to root the car and customize what features I want to use e.g. I'd just turn the radar back on if there's still software support for it.
 
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Boza

2020 Model S LR+
Sep 24, 2021
1,185
1,930
Usa
No one else has vision only system. Just the opposite - they are looking for ways to incorporate more sensors. No matter what BS they are selling with Tesla Vision this was forced by the supply shortages and that created an opportunity for cost reduction. Now we know that Tesla was not some wizard with foresight when the supply chain issues hit. While the other manufacturers were focusing on fixing those issues Tesla was willing to cut corners and release subpar product.
 

Boza

2020 Model S LR+
Sep 24, 2021
1,185
1,930
Usa
It's not enough to force me to ditch Tesla yet, I say yet only because they are doing a good job about pushing me as a customer away from buying another vehicle. More so when I see what the competition has coming if it ever materializes. The thing I hate about traditional auto is the dealerships, some are good but some are outright con men. I've a bad feeling when I'm out of warranty I'll be forced to root the car and customize what features I want to use e.g. I'd just turn the radar back on if there's still software support for it.
Doesn’t disabling an important feature that you paid for sound like something a con man would do? :) Tesla SC are not really known for their quality either.
 
Btw: there are similar treads complaining about auto high beams - also forced with Tesla Vision.
Other manufacturers are happily using actual sensors for auto high beams and auto wipers for decades.
I recall reading an article recently indicating that the upcoming HW 4.0 will use both cameras and radar. I'll have to find that article. For now, I'm sticking with my HW2.5 and radar system 😊
 
Doesn’t disabling an important feature that you paid for sound like something a con man would do? :) Tesla SC are not really known for their quality either.
It sounds a lot like something that'll attract the attention of a bunch of lawyers that'll file a class action suit then make off with an obscene amount. While we, the customer get a $20 check and our radar back in 5 years time.
 
I recall reading an article recently indicating that the upcoming HW 4.0 will use both cameras and radar. I'll have to find that article. For now, I'm sticking with my HW2.5 and radar system 😊
I won't be buying anymore of their cars after this. How can any of us trust them not to just disable the radar on HW4 in three years time and tell people, too many errors the new (new) vision is better. Then turn around 6 months or a year later tell everyone forget all of that lidar is the way to go now. They've turned into Apple, reselling and reselling the same crap.

I hope the competition matures along with the charging infrastructure when it comes time for me to buy another car because I can't bring myself to trust Tesla at this stage. I don't know where the boundary between what I own and what they think they can control is. New OS that's annoying is one thing turning off my hardware that I own is where I draw the line.
 
Y'all with the "turning off hardware I PAID FOR!" are just too much. Dude's gonna root his Tesla because they disabled radar? 😂😂😂😂

You paid for a Tesla and to support the team that decides how they are updated and programmed. This discussion is hilarious to me. I see the point you are trying to make, but it's almost completely silly and ignores exactly what Tesla is, under the guise of "Tesla thinks they know better!! No one asked me!!" Yup.

I'm sorry to be so glib, but this is all so funny.
 
Y'all with the "turning off hardware I PAID FOR!" are just too much. Dude's gonna root his Tesla because they disabled radar? 😂😂😂😂

You paid for a Tesla and to support the team that decides how they are updated and programmed. This discussion is hilarious to me. I see the point you are trying to make, but it's almost completely silly and ignores exactly what Tesla is, under the guise of "Tesla thinks they know better!! No one asked me!!" Yup.

I'm sorry to be so glib, but this is all so funny.
Exactly. "all other companies use radar." Do people think Tesla is so far ahead by doing everything every other company is doing? Wasn't there a tweet and an article that outlined how to there were conflicts between information gathered by LIDAR and information from the cameras that were making AP/FSD more complicated and that going to a camera-only system would be more accurate and efficient in the long run? Do people really think that with year-long wait times and 30+% margins on every vehicle, that they deleted the LIDAR just to save a couple hundred bucks a car? Come on, people. It's not "there was a feature and it was deleted." No feature was lost.

I've driven Teslas with LIDAR and most recently Teslas with Vision only. There is no noticeable difference to me.
 
Y'all with the "turning off hardware I PAID FOR!" are just too much. Dude's gonna root his Tesla because they disabled radar? 😂😂😂😂

You paid for a Tesla and to support the team that decides how they are updated and programmed. This discussion is hilarious to me. I see the point you are trying to make, but it's almost completely silly and ignores exactly what Tesla is, under the guise of "Tesla thinks they know better!! No one asked me!!" Yup.

I'm sorry to be so glib, but this is all so funny.
If Elon was always right, he would be on Mars already.
No need to ask anyone. Auto high beam doesn't work. Auto wipers doesn't work.
And V11 is a piece of 💩
 

Boza

2020 Model S LR+
Sep 24, 2021
1,185
1,930
Usa
Exactly. "all other companies use radar." Do people think Tesla is so far ahead by doing everything every other company is doing? Wasn't there a tweet and an article that outlined how to there were conflicts between information gathered by LIDAR and information from the cameras that were making AP/FSD more complicated and that going to a camera-only system would be more accurate and efficient in the long run? Do people really think that with year-long wait times and 30+% margins on every vehicle, that they deleted the LIDAR just to save a couple hundred bucks a car? Come on, people. It's not "there was a feature and it was deleted." No feature was lost.

I've driven Teslas with LIDAR and most recently Teslas with Vision only. There is no noticeable difference to me.
Tesla does a lot of things right by not following the charted path. But that does not mean that they have to challenge _everything_. In fact, challenging everything is lack of wisdom, typical for a lot of startups. Understanding what to challenge and what to use is a sign of mature leadership. It is time for Tesla to grow up from the startup past.
There are many, many examples where they challenged existing knowledge without much understanding just to come back around and accept it. V11 fiasco was probably the latest example.
Currently, they have the market because of the advanced drivetrain and charging network. The rest of the car is pretty average, maybe even below average (would you buy an ICE Tesla?). The dealership network is mediocre (aside from the mobile units).
Tesla can allow to mess up maybe a few more times and then those mistakes will become very costly. There are cars that at the same price point are superior in terms of ergonomics, design, support and quality. It is just a matter of time for them to figure out the drivetrain. Tesla is so much focused on scaling and distractions like AI, FSD, monkeying with software, that, aside from the batteries, they have not done much innovation in the drivetrain. The difference between Raven and Plaid is purely cosmetic, with some marketing stints like half-wheel dropped in. In its essence, the car is the same plus one more motor. Cybertruck is delayed again; Roadster is nowhere near production.
Specifically about so called “Tesla Vision”. The arguments for it is a pure BS (don’t trust me - Google experts opinions). Visual ranging is inferior to radar ranging by definition. It is slower because it calculates parallax (angle difference) between images vs. simple S=V*T. It is also less accurate, especially at closer distances when the images are vastly different. No wonder visual ranging is limited to only situations where active radar cannot be used. That inaccuracy and lower speed are the reasons why the following distance is increased and max AP speed is reduced.
Removing a perfectly functioning sensor because it disagrees with the other is another sign that Tesla just does not get it and FSD will continue to be “two years away”. Driving is one of those problems with long tail end scenarios and you have to solve for 100% of them; 99% will not cut it. Discrepancies are solved by adding more sensors to cover more scenarios, not by removing them. Yes, radar may be worse than visual in 20% of the cases but it will be invaluable in that 1% that you really need it.
Removing the radar was a measure to circumvent the supply chain problems and they used to opportunity to cut cost. Have in mind that the cost of the sensor itself is minimal; supporting the software is where the real money is.
Even though I also lost trust in Tesla I love what they have done and I still have a sliver of hope that they will concentrate on what they do best - making great EV - and stop those distractions.
 

Mikecm1

Mike
Supporting Member
Oct 17, 2020
137
168
San Diego
Y'all with the "turning off hardware I PAID FOR!" are just too much. Dude's gonna root his Tesla because they disabled radar? 😂😂😂😂

You paid for a Tesla and to support the team that decides how they are updated and programmed. This discussion is hilarious to me. I see the point you are trying to make, but it's almost completely silly and ignores exactly what Tesla is, under the guise of "Tesla thinks they know better!! No one asked me!!" Yup.

I'm sorry to be so glib, but this is all so funny.

What man? No one gives a *sugar* about radar being turned off because “we paid for it”, we care because disabling radar makes autopilot perform WORSE. Autopilot vision only is inferior, FOR NOW. If vision only worked as well or better than with radar then not a single person would care.

Tesla is disabling radar before vision only is a comparable experience.

You’re completely misinterpreting why people are complaining.
 
Tesla does a lot of things right by not following the charted path. But that does not mean that they have to challenge _everything_. In fact, challenging everything is lack of wisdom, typical for a lot of startups. Understanding what to challenge and what to use is a sign of mature leadership. It is time for Tesla to grow up from the startup past.
There are many, many examples where they challenged existing knowledge without much understanding just to come back around and accept it. V11 fiasco was probably the latest example.
The more I think about it, Tesla is really starting to remind me of Google (not in a good way). Tesla has about 3 things that they do amazingly well (batteries, motors, and the charging network). Google has about two or three things they do 'well' and a whole bunch of other things that they contently change, screw up, loose focus, or just cancel (Chat, Pay, etc). Be careful Tesla, Google may still be a high value business but in many ways they have also become a joke that people have learned to not depend on.
 
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Boza

2020 Model S LR+
Sep 24, 2021
1,185
1,930
Usa
The more I think about it, Tesla is really starting to remind me of Google (not in a good way). Tesla has about 3 things that they do amazingly well (batteries, motors, and the charging network). Google has about two or three things they do 'well' and a whole bunch of other things that they contently change, screw up, loose focus, or just cancel (Chat, Pay, etc). Be careful Tesla, Google may still be a high value business but in many ways they have also become a joke that people have learned to not depend on.
Another similarity is that, in a lot of respects, Google still behaves as a startup - in an infantile way. The _huge_ difference is that I use Gmail and Gdocs but not the other stuff. With the car I do not have that choice.
It is crazy the opportunity for choices that Tesla is missing. For example, adding a sensitivity adjustment to the wipers would go a long way. Instead of using the fact that they have almost everything in software and that could allow for almost infinite optionality they took “my way or highway” approach. Just imagine if they allowed us to combine widgets into our own main screen! How about having a marketplace for widgets? For their emphasis on the “sportiness” of Tesla they don’t even have a track screen! Totally misguided software efforts! Arghhh!
 

Mikecm1

Mike
Supporting Member
Oct 17, 2020
137
168
San Diego
Another similarity is that, in a lot of respects, Google still behaves as a startup - in an infantile way. The _huge_ difference is that I use Gmail and Gdocs but not the other stuff. With the car I do not have that choice.
It is crazy the opportunity for choices that Tesla is missing. For example, adding a sensitivity adjustment to the wipers would go a long way. Instead of using the fact that they have almost everything in software and that could allow for almost infinite optionality they took “my way or highway” approach. Just imagine if they allowed us to combine widgets into our own main screen! How about having a marketplace for widgets? For their emphasis on the “sportiness” of Tesla they don’t even have a track screen! Totally misguided software efforts! Arghhh!
Especially annoying when the CEO replies things like “ok” when someone asked if Tesla could add track mode to people who purchase the acceleration boost. Like why even reply if it’s just BS? Even if he honestly thought he would do it, why constantly promise things that never come to fruition?
 

texas_star_TM3

Active Member
Oct 28, 2019
1,449
2,596
Texas
You don't have the right car if you don't accept / appreciate getting over the air updates with new features and changes. Not all of them are perfect but by having a Tesla, you somewhat have to accept this. Vision is supposed to be an upgrade on what we had before. They are a bit optimistic in their abilities but one can hope that eventually it does get better. The V11 UI was supposed to be an upgrade too :) . I cannot say that I like all of them, sometimes I find changes bad just like you.
Vision was the solution to part shortages and cost cutting. no more radar needed. if it is really an UPGRADE... why was the top speed for vision reduced to 85mph but radar used to be 90mph? great upgrade.
 

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