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Car and Driver Model 3 Test - Not Great

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Yes and let's not forget nobody, aside from Tesla, has enough battery capacity to produce appreciable numbers of BEVs. BMW sure does not. Jaguar? Nope. Mercedes has made some big investments but they are still a few years out from completion. Tesla even may struggle they have not been able to complete the gigafactory and as we have seen the delays in them producing Model 3s at a high rate have been mostly on the battery side.
I think it's naive to assume that LG Chem, SDI, BYD etc. won't be able to scale up battery production just like Panasonic is supposedly doing for Tesla. And when talking about pack assembly, that doesn't exactly appear to be a strength on Tesla's part so far ...
 
Regarding interiors....IMHO..Bolt's interior doesn't look that bad.

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I don’t entirely agree with everything in the C and D review, but man they sure hit the nail on the head here:

This aggressively minimalistic approach results in some strange and unsuccessful attempts to reinvent the automotive interior. The process required to move the mirrors and to manipulate the power-adjustable tilting and telescoping steering wheel incorporates both a menu within the touchscreen and the finicky steering-wheel scroll buttons. Changing the direction of airflow from the HVAC vent that stretches across the full width of the dash is, similarly, a multistep affair in which you must pinch and swipe a display within the climate-control menu that resembles a not very addictive smartphone game.
 
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No. Because people who are excited about things will gravitate toward forums related to those things. And people who have a more balanced perspective and would like to gather information or share positive/negative experiences with something they own or may potentially own will gravitate toward forums where they can do so.

The issue I have... and there at least a few in every forum on every topic... is with people who hover around forums with nothing but negative comments about the subject of those forums. It serves no purpose that I can see... apart from the cases where the participants are being paid to harm a brand that threatens other interests.

So you think that a balanced perspective means that people share positive and negative experiences, yet those who have an opinion that is not positive towards a product have no place in the discussion. Very interesting.
 
I think it's naive to assume that LG Chem, SDI, BYD etc. won't be able to scale up battery production just like Panasonic is supposedly doing for Tesla. And when talking about pack assembly, that doesn't exactly appear to be a strength on Tesla's part so far ...

Cella,

I didn't say that others cannot scale up. I said they don't have capacity right now. And LG and Samsung for example split their current production among several OEMs. Remeber Panasonic and Tesla have been working on the Gigafactory for 4 years already. Tesla has access TODAY to more automotive battery capacity than LG and Samsung combined, and does not need to share that with anyone.
 
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Cella,

I didn't say that others cannot scale up. I said they don't have capacity right now. And LG and Samsung for example split their current production among several OEMs. Remeber Panasonic and Tesla have been working on the Gigafactory for 4 years already. Tesla has access TODAY to more automotive battery capacity than LG and Samsung combined, and does not need to share that with anyone.

Right now is true but others are going to close the gap quickly. VW and Mercedes have announced extremely aggressive plans to massively expand EV production and have announced some details of the battery supplier plans they have lined up.

VW for example has plans to hit 1500 vehicles per day in just one of their plants by 2020.
 
Yes but I think most miss a central point: IF/when OEMs like VW and Mercedes make a good BEV capable of beating or equaling a comparable Tesla, they will have also made a car capable of beating their own ICE offerings. In other words they are more likely to cannibalize their own sales, replacing ICE revenue with BEV revenue. So they don't grow best case, but maintain, while at the same time idling their existing ICE infrastructure while having to spend tons of CAPEX on BEV infrastructure.
They really are at a serious competitive disadvantage. Truly caught out by the innovators dilemma.
 
So you think that a balanced perspective means that people share positive and negative experiences, yet those who have an opinion that is not positive towards a product have no place in the discussion. Very interesting.

People who spend 100% of their time on a forum being negative can't possibly get any joy out of it (unless, of course, they are sadists)... so those people's motives will always be suspect. You are welcome here, just as everyone else is. But don't be surprised when other forum members entertain the idea that you may be being paid to push an agenda. It happens all the time. All I know is that without some form of major incentive, I would not spend any time on forums related to products I dislike. My time is worth too much to waste it being negative without a purpose.
 
Cella,

I didn't say that others cannot scale up. I said they don't have capacity right now. And LG and Samsung for example split their current production among several OEMs. Remeber Panasonic and Tesla have been working on the Gigafactory for 4 years already. Tesla has access TODAY to more automotive battery capacity than LG and Samsung combined, and does not need to share that with anyone.
Overcapacity is not a benefit, but potentially a (financial) albatross around their neck. The big car makers have decades of experience in ramping up complex supply chains when it's needed.
 
People who spend 100% of their time on a forum being negative can't possibly get any joy out of it (unless, of course, they are sadists)... so those people's motives will always be suspect. You are welcome here, just as everyone else is. But don't be surprised when other forum members entertain the idea that you may be being paid to push an agenda. It happens all the time. All I know is that without some form of major incentive, I would not spend any time on forums related to products I dislike. My time is worth too much to waste it being negative without a purpose.

Your negativity towards opposing viewpoints seems to be without a purpose, other than perhaps to try to intimidate, yet here you are...Are you being paid to dwell on the fact that I agree with Car and Driver's assessment of the Model 3?
 
Your negativity towards opposing viewpoints seems to be without a purpose, other than perhaps to try to intimidate, yet here you are...Are you being paid to dwell on the fact that I agree with Car and Driver's assessment of the Model 3?

I'm not negative at all towards your viewpoint. Just pointing out to others that you may be a paid shill. Everybody needs an income, so I sympathize with you if that is the case.
 
Overcapacity is not a benefit, but potentially a (financial) albatross around their neck. The big car makers have decades of experience in ramping up complex supply chains when it's needed.
My comment was regarding batteries. The "Big car makers" have zero experience in these volumes and reply almost entirely on outside suppliers. See GM and the LG Bolt :)
 
It is. You have to sit in it. Seat is uncomfortably narrow. Car is very narrow. Materials tend to be cheaper harder plastics. It looks and feels like a $12,000 Chevy Sonic.
With an $18,000 battery!
Seriously I am 6'4" and Bolt's seats is fine with me... felt more cramped when I sat in Model 3 last week.
I like the fact the synthetic leather can be washed (I do construction and farming)
The ONLY seat that beats it for me is the ULTRA WHITE on the X/S...not sure if Model 3 will come with it eventually.
 
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My comment was regarding batteries. The "Big car makers" have zero experience in these volumes and reply almost entirely on outside suppliers. See GM and the LG Bolt :)

Zero?

Really?

BMW had delivered 100,000 i3 as of October of last year. That's 100,000 out of a single plant (Leipzig plant) of a single model. Tesla does have higher volume, but up until recently all of Tesla batteries were built by Panasonic (they are still built in partnership with Panasonic at the Gigafactory).... which is not different AT ALL from BMW sourcing their battery packs from Samsung.... other than one company being Japanese and the other being Korean.
 
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