Car and Driver Model 3 Test - Not Great

[metier]

Why? Manufacturers could just as easily not allow cars not utilizing AP to follow too closely. But they do.

AP is a driver assist. It is not the driver.

I don’t see other car manufactures blaming the following distance setting by a driver as part of the reason for the drivers death. And here I thought AP was suppose to make the world safer.

 

[sreams]

I don’t see other car manufactures blaming the following distance setting by a driver as part of the reason for the drivers death. And here I thought AP was suppose to make the world safer.

It does... As a driver assist. The driver in this case was using it as a replacement for himself.

 

[metier]

It does... As a driver assist. The driver in this case was using it as a replacement for himself.

What statistics are you basing this “It does” on? Are you comparing all cars $75,000 and up, with accidents on major highways since this is where majority of AP miles are used? Or are you taking statistics from all car accidents?

 

[Eclectic]

Sure pal. You are right, I should have just driven both cars around, one with each foot, squealing about the money I was saving.

You were bragging about wasting money, I was just wondering why...

 

[Eclectic]

Why are you on the Model 3 forum? That's a serious question BTW I honestly would like to know.

Why are you?

 

[sreams]

What statistics are you basing this “It does” on? Are you comparing all cars $75,000 and up, with accidents on major highways since this is where majority of AP miles are used? Or are you taking statistics from all car accidents?

It was you who suggested AP was not making the world safer. What data do you have that suggests AP, when used as intended, is not safer? So far, you've only referred to an example where AP was clearly misused.

 

[sreams]

Why are you?

I can't speak for him... But I'd say most people are here because they are interested in the car and either own it or are considering purchasing it. Of course, that doesn't mean every post will be positive. That said, I'm not sure why people who have zero interest in owning a Model 3 would waste their time here. What are you trying to accomplish?

 

[metier]

It was you who suggested AP was not making the world safer. What data do you have that suggests AP, when used as intended, is not safer? So far, you've only referred to an example where AP was clearly misused.

I’m not the one that is saying it does. I asked a question you are the one that said it does so I’m just trying to figure out how you came to this conclusion you must have some facts to back it up no?

 

[sreams]

I’m not the one that is saying it does. I asked a question you are the one that said it does so I’m just trying to figure out how you came to this conclusion you must have some facts to back it up no?

This statement of yours suggests you believe AP does not improve safety:

"And here I thought AP was suppose to make the world safer."

 

[Eclectic]

I can't speak for him... But I'd say most people are here because they are interested in the car and either own it or are considering purchasing it. Of course, that doesn't mean every post will be positive. That said, I'm not sure why people who have zero interest in owning a Model 3 would waste their time here. What are you trying to accomplish?

I'm reading about Tesla products. Isn't that what this forum is all about?

 

[sreams]

I'm reading about Tesla products. Isn't that what this forum is all about?

You expect to learn about Tesla products from a bunch of people you don't see as objective? Odd choice. What do you expect to do with your knowledge once you've learned some things about Tesla products?

 

[Reefdiver]

Techmaven, great post on Bolt vs Model 3 (and BMW 3 series). You nailed it, C&D reviews clearly inconsistent and lame

 

[brkaus]

No. It's a characteristic of their PMAC motor design that there's little regen at very slow speeds.

But they do have the ability to control the brakes through the fancy brake booster system. So it would be possible.

 

[Eclectic]

You expect to learn about Tesla products from a bunch of people you don't see as objective? Odd choice. What do you expect to do with your knowledge once you've learned some things about Tesla products?

I didn't say I expect to learn about Tesla products and I didn't say people aren't objective.

Why does anyone from this forum read Car and Driver if they are so biased and anti-Tesla?

 

[cella]

Some more comparisons with the BMW 330i as tested by C&D, 330i -> Model 3 LR:
0-60: 5.4 versus 5.1
30-50: 3.6 versus 1.9
1/4 mile: 14.0 @ 100 mph versus 13.8 @ 101 mph
braking 70-0: 168 versus 176 (comment is weirdest set of stops for Model 3 LR)
noise level: basically the same
price as tested: $47,645 versus $56,000 (but EAP is $5000 of that, not available on the 330i, so real difference is $51k versus $48k)
weather: 67-75 degrees versus 30-38 degrees

So the Model 3 LR trounces the BMW 330i on acceleration, passing, about tied on skidpad, quarter mile, and noise levels. Loses on braking. However... the Model 3 LR was tested at almost 35 degrees colder weather. That affects the tire grip and energy usage.

I don't necessarily disagree with your point that some reviewers may be biased, but you have to be careful not to fall into the same trap. For example, if you want to compare the Model 3 to the BMW 3 series, it seems to me the 340i is the one to compare to, since it has a very similar base price as the first production Model 3. Then suddenly the Beemer "trounces" the Model 3 on 0-60 acceleration (haven't looked up the other numbers). It also arguably has a much more substantial interior, better noise insulation (including an acoustic windshield), a smoother ride, probably better build quality, and a lot of the options available that people are missing on the Model 3 (such as Carplay/Android Auto, top-down camera view, much cheaper ACC, more color/wheel choices etc.). Be honest with yourself: If the 340i had a Tesla logo and Tesla drive train, would you really prefer the current Model 3 over it? I know I wouldn't. I don't think it helps anyone (least of all Tesla) if we ignore and/or downplay some of the not-so-stellar aspects of the car.

 

[brkaus]

Stay skeptical, always.

Good advice. Applies to any reading online. Tesla, CNN, Fox, seekingalpha, C&D, etc. Every darn one of them has a bias that they are promoting.

 

[techmaven]

I don't necessarily disagree with your point that some reviewers may be biased, but you have to be careful not to fall into the same trap. For example, if you want to compare the Model 3 to the BMW 3 series, it seems to me the 340i is the one to compare to, since it has a very similar base price as the first production Model 3. Then suddenly the Beemer "trounces" the Model 3 on 0-60 acceleration (haven't looked up the other numbers). It also arguably has a much more substantial interior, better noise insulation (including an acoustic windshield), a smoother ride, probably better build quality, and a lot of the options available that people are missing on the Model 3 (such as Carplay/Android Auto, top-down camera view, much cheaper ACC, more color/wheel choices etc.). Be honest with yourself: If the 340i had a Tesla logo and Tesla drive train, would you really prefer the current Model 3 over it? I know I wouldn't. I don't think it helps anyone (least of all Tesla) if we ignore and/or downplay some of the not-so-stellar aspects of the car.

I used the 330i because C&D directly referenced it. The better comparison is the 330e which the Model 3 thoroughly trounces especially with price factored in - the C&D as tested 330e was $62,345. Remember, we are comparing without any tax incentives too.

Comparing against the 340i... the sound levels as tested by C&D is almost identical. The Model 3 is slightly quieter than the 340i. The 340i is quicker with 0-60 at 4.8 versus 5.1 and it is definitely faster at the 1/4 mile. But again, the Tesla was tested at substantially lower temperatures. Also note the passing times... and we really don't even talk about energy efficiency. The C&D as tested price on the 340i was $58,420, but it doesn't have anything like EAP on it.

Compared to the 330e, the Model 3 is substantially quicker, less expensive, lighter, more energy efficient, far higher all electric range, far higher performance on electric, and about the same on skidpad, noise levels and braking. Again, the Model 3 was tested at substantially lower temperatures.

The Model 3 goes head to head against the best ICE vehicles, no apology needed. The Bolt does not. But Car and Driver somehow says the Bolt is the Model 3's closest competitor. It isn't even close. The Bolt is tested against a curve with much lower expectations. The Model 3 doesn't get that benefit. And we should note just how close the Model 3 comes, without tax incentives, against the best small and mid-sized luxury sport sedans available, winning some categories, losing some, but well within reach across the board.

Furthermore, there we haven't really gotten to some of the most important aspects of BEVs. Most important is the battery pack, including cell degradation, charging capability, and charging network as well as production capability and cost. Here is where the Tesla shines the most against the competition. It has historically the best battery packs, the best charging capability in both AC and DC options, and the best charging network in both AC and DC options. Compare against the BMW 330e PHEV's performance as an EV. Or the Bolt or upcoming Kona EV's slow DCFC capability. Or DCFC network, of which some of the up front price pays a part.

Therefore, you can't just say a BMW 3 series with a Tesla drivetrain. Part of the whole issue is the logistical and technological advances necessary to make the Model 3 happen at all. And BMW doesn't have what it takes currently to make a Model 3 and launch it.

 

[Gen3Joe]

Why are you?

Because I'm a Tesla enthusiast and have been since 2006. This is usually what brings someone to a forum dedicated to something specific like a car brand. The thing that makes this one different is the mission, something that has the potential to dramatically change the lives of many.

Your turn.

 

[metier]

This statement of yours suggests you believe AP does not improve safety:

"And here I thought AP was suppose to make the world safer."

Well if you have to drive the car and you can not trust it then how is it making you safer? So explain what facts you have that proves it does make you safer

 

[Gen3Joe]

I can't speak for him... But I'd say most people are here because they are interested in the car and either own it or are considering purchasing it. Of course, that doesn't mean every post will be positive. That said, I'm not sure why people who have zero interest in owning a Model 3 would waste their time here. What are you trying to accomplish?[/QUO

I don't necessarily disagree with your point that some reviewers may be biased, but you have to be careful not to fall into the same trap. For example, if you want to compare the Model 3 to the BMW 3 series, it seems to me the 340i is the one to compare to, since it has a very similar base price as the first production Model 3. Then suddenly the Beemer "trounces" the Model 3 on 0-60 acceleration (haven't looked up the other numbers). It also arguably has a much more substantial interior, better noise insulation (including an acoustic windshield), a smoother ride, probably better build quality, and a lot of the options available that people are missing on the Model 3 (such as Carplay/Android Auto, top-down camera view, much cheaper ACC, more color/wheel choices etc.). Be honest with yourself: If the 340i had a Tesla logo and Tesla drive train, would you really prefer the current Model 3 over it? I know I wouldn't. I don't think it helps anyone (least of all Tesla) if we ignore and/or downplay some of the not-so-stellar aspects of the car.

If the BMW had a Tesla Model 3 LR drivetrain in it BMW would charge $70,000. Look at the i3. It's the BMW version of a Nissan Leaf and costs $45,000. That's a 50% price increase for the privilege of driving a BMW.