Car and Driver suffers Model 3 failure on 12/25, but car told them about it remotely

[EVDRVN]

But, but Tesla vehicles are so reliable and maintenance free. Lol.

They are very reliable. My S had about $5K in repairs before 25K miles and in the first three months my 3 had about $6K or more. In the present landscape I would not own a Tesla out of warranty due to the cost of parts and availability. My GF picked up her 3 a couple days ago and I fully warned her to expect at least trivial issues, well there are some very strange mechanical noises coming from the front and it headed to service, 40 miles on the odometer I'm also confident she has a failed left repeater but she loves the "soft white seats". The only thing I wish warranty did not exclude is rattles as I now have some really bad ones. Come on Tesla I have to pay for poor assembly?

Here's the thing, all the cars could be driven to service so they are "reliable"

 

[McMoo]

You don't get a loaner because some soccer mom or mid life crisis dude rolls up in a maxed out S or X to get their tires rotated, everything checked for some rattle they cant reproduce at drop off and complains about some paint issue they recently had pointed out by their work friends and they HAVE to have a loaner so they can go to brunch.

I agree it’s a little ridiculous but yes, you get a loaner for those things at Infiniti, Acura, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Lincoln, Genesis dealers. Even better, they may even come drop off the loaner and take your car if you’re close by.

This isn’t a dealbreaker for most people, and I even got a loaner from Tesla in St. Louis in August when they had to repair damaged rocker panels from shipping, but it’s certainly the norm to provide loaners for luxury car dealers. Part of which is probably so you get in a new model and want to upgrade.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Why do you keep telling people this?

As far as I know, as I pointed out at 2017 Model 3 Reliability you've had at least 3 door handles replaced, something done w/your contactor that someone at Proactive Contactor Replacement characterized as "extensive work" + some other issues, in addition to for awhile taking it in for service "once a month" (per Model s at 40,000 Miles). You got a new inverter and had a clunked fixed per NOOB, Can anyone give an earful on my Tesla S 60 purchase. And, per Is Tesla trying to become the absolute worst service organization?. you paid $2300 for an MCU. Wouldn't be surprised if the eMMC wore out due to excessive writing to flash.

For other maintenance, you've never had the tires rotated or changed?

Hopefully @toolman335 and @M109Rider see the above.

I do find it semi-amusing that people here on TMC will point to problems w/brands that don't have very good reliability (e.g. BMW, Mercedes and Audi) to begin with.

Thank you. @roblab please delete your account and get help.
I too chuckle when people compare Tesla reliability to BMW, Mercedes, and VW/Audi. Not confidence inspiring. Haha.

 

[St☰v☰]

I'm guessing squirrels did it.

They probably got tired of running in the cold weather.

 

[Msjulie]

Apparently Tesla is looking into removing the 12V from the car. It is small and drives a number of systems and needs to be recharged from the main battery and is a failure point.

That is very interesting if true; the original Roadster had no 12v battery just a dc to dc converter to directly power 12v accessories. Later Roadsters did have one (a small motorcycle sized unit) and I was told it was a federal requirement to provide power for emergency flashers in the event of a power train failure. I have to admit I would love not having that 12v battery there and I wonder what the real story is here.

 

[jboy210]

That is very interesting if true; the original Roadster had no 12v battery just a dc to dc converter to directly power 12v accessories. Later Roadsters did have one (a small motorcycle sized unit) and I was told it was a federal requirement to provide power for emergency flashers in the event of a power train failure. I have to admit I would love not having that 12v battery there and I wonder what the real story is here.

Several posting from Musk pointed to work on a lower power bus powered by the battery. Running at higher voltage than a regular car(may have been 48 volts). This has a lot of advantage and 48 volts are used in aircraft. The wire can be thin. In airplanes the wires are much thinner than in cars. This saves weight and reduces the number of power wires needed. One of the posting pointed to some dramatic decreases in the amount of wired needed per car and weight savings which would increase performance numbers.

Such as upgrade was rumored for the Y, but as I remember it was shelved to get the Y our this year and not in 2022,and keep the engineering and parts costs down.

 

[jboy210]

I agree it’s a little ridiculous but yes, you get a loaner for those things at Infiniti, Acura, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Lincoln, Genesis dealers. Even better, they may even come drop off the loaner and take your car if you’re close by.

This isn’t a dealbreaker for most people, and I even got a loaner from Tesla in St. Louis in August when they had to repair damaged rocker panels from shipping, but it’s certainly the norm to provide loaners for luxury car dealers. Part of which is probably so you get in a new model and want to upgrade.

Not at my local BMW dealer. They have a few loaners, but you have to reserve days in advance. And every one is rolling advertisement that your BMW is broke. They all have "BMW xxxx Courtesy Car" on the rear window which is code for "My g&% D*&* BMW is in the shop again!!"

I prefer the Tesla approach where the car is so simple that much of the maintenance on the car can be done by a mobile tech that comes to your home or office. When I had a charge door issue on my X, the guy can to my house and repaired it right in my garage. If I had to take it to a stealership I would have lost at least 1 hour for going over and dropping and getting a ride home. And when it was done another hour to have someone drop me off and pick it up. Instead I was working in my home office logging billable time while the tech worked on the car. He finished in 1/2 hour or so.

 

[toolman335]

They are very reliable. My S had about $5K in repairs before 25K miles and in the first three months my 3 had about $6K or more. In the present landscape I would not own a Tesla out of warranty due to the cost of parts and availability. My GF picked up her 3 a couple days ago and I fully warned her to expect at least trivial issues, well there are some very strange mechanical noises coming from the front and it headed to service, 40 miles on the odometer I'm also confident she has a failed left repeater but she loves the "soft white seats". The only thing I wish warranty did not exclude is rattles as I now have some really bad ones. Come on Tesla I have to pay for poor assembly?

Here's the thing, all the cars could be driven to service so they are "reliable"

$6k in 3 months? I've had mine far longer than that and haven't spent a dime.

 

[jboy210]

$6k in 3 months? I've had mine far longer than that and haven't spent a dime.

Old S's had many more issues. They were gen1 cars of a grand experiment. And like any luxury cars had repair costs match the original price.

 

[KenC]

Coincidentally, my 12V battery failed yesterday. I drove into work yesterday morning with no issues, no warnings, nothing out of the ordinary, etc... As I was leaving to go home, when I opened the driver door, I noticed the window "scraped" as it opened, and I realized it didn't partially roll down like it normally does when entering the car. I thought it was strange but figured it was a fluke.

When I got into the car, I noticed the screen wouldn't turn on, and because the driver door window was ALL the way up, it was literally impossible to close the door. I tried to roll the window down with no luck and no power seemingly going through the button. I then noticed the headlights were flickering on and off, in an uneven pattern.

As I investigated further, I found that I WAS able to mostly roll down all other windows in the car, using their window buttons - but the windows SLUGGISHLY rolled down with obvious electrical/power issues. What I found strange is every window button worked except the driver's side.

Opening my app, I saw that Xena Warrior Princess would not wake up from sleep mode. I also tried holding the brake and scroll buttons, numerous times, to try to force a reboot - no luck.

At this point, I called Tesla Roadside Assistance. They had me try everything I had already tried and then conceded that they needed to have a tow truck pick me up. At that point, I started to notice the smell of rotten eggs/sulfur, and I knew it was battery related (I was just hoping it wasn't my MAIN battery). The sulfur smell continued to get so bad that you could smell it from outside the car, 5+ feet away.

The tow truck arrived in about an hour, got me loaded up onto a flat bed, and took me to the nearest Tesla service center, thankfully 3 miles away. From all the research I had done on my phone while waiting for the tow truck, I had self-diagnosed the issue as my 12v battery going bad.

When I got to the service center, I explained the issues and explained I thought it was the 12v battery. I got to the service center about 1 hour before they were closing. I was certain I would need a loaner and would not get my car back that same night. The service tech told me to go chill in the waiting area as they would see if they could get me my car back the same night.

30 minutes later, he came back with the news that I was good to go! I was honestly shocked. Sure enough, my 12v battery had failed, and they had to swap it out. He also said the battery coolant was low, so they refilled that as well. He noted the low coolant didn't have anything to do with the 12v failing. The tech also noted that more and more Model 3 Teslas have been coming in with the failed 12v battery issue, usually between the 12 and 18 month period. I got my car on September 11, 2018 - right in his timeline.

He noted that some people see warnings to get service before the 12v fails, but I had no such warnings. The tech said Tesla is aware that warnings are sporadic and Tesla is working on an update across all models to try to have better early detection of the 12v battery failing so that an owner can get it serviced in time before failure.

I was definitely shocked to learn that a car that runs solely on battery power still relied on a 12v battery that was a single point of failure - but at least I know it now.

I figure sharing this might help any of you that might unfortunately - and it sounds like inevitably - will run into this issue at some point.

Quirks I noticed when the 12v went bad:
-Headlights flickering on and off, sporadically
-Windows rolled down very sluggishly, with the driver-side initially not having any power to roll windows down or up
-After 10+ minutes, the driver side window DID finally roll down, as if remembering I had tried to roll it down 10 minutes before
-Yay, I could close the door!
-The stench of sulfur/rotten eggs grew steadily worse (this indicates a battery issue)
-When I would hold the brake down, it would pump back and forth, almost clicking against my foot, but no response
-The car, Xena Warrior Princess, wouldn't wake up in the Tesla app
-The screen would flash the Tesla T for 1 second, as if trying to turn on, but then immediately shut off before repeating about every 10 minutes
-Opening the driver-side door, the window didn't automatically lower, scraping against the top of the car. All other doors/windows behaved normally, albeit sluggishly and clearly not operating at 100%
-The driver-side power randomly decided to start working again, sluggishly, 10+ minutes in to me sitting in the car and fiddling around with stuff
-I unplugged all USB-related items, which did not help
-I still had 212 miles left on my main battery before it was empty
-Tesla roadside could see the last time my car was awake was 2 hours prior, confirming the 212 range, but could not get it out of sleep mode either

My car: Model 3 AWD | Long Range | EAP | September, 2018 | 66K VIN | 17,700 miles

Whenever you get electrical anomalies, like your list, the first thing you should consider is whether the 12V is going bad. You should always carry one of those small lithium backup chargers, just in case. Might be useful, if a SC isn't nearby.

 

[MattUNI]

Whenever you get electrical anomalies, like your list, the first thing you should consider is whether the 12V is going bad. You should always carry one of those small lithium backup chargers, just in case. Might be useful, if a SC isn't nearby.

In my specific scenario, which had no warnings of anything wrong before the 12V failure, the hardest part would be getting the frunk open to get access to recharge it since 1. I could not connect to the car via the app to open the frunk and 2. the screen would not power up to allow me to open it. Looks like a 9V battery can definitely come in handy for getting it open, assuming that trick still works.

I would guess, with relatively high confidence, that 90%+ of people would be SOL in that scenario.

 

[EVDRVN]

$6k in 3 months? I've had mine far longer than that and haven't spent a dime.

All warranty work.

 

[jboy210]

In my specific scenario, which had no warnings of anything wrong before the 12V failure, the hardest part would be getting the frunk open to get access to recharge it since 1. I could not connect to the car via the app to open the frunk and 2. the screen would not power up to allow me to open it. Looks like a 9V battery can definitely come in handy for getting it open, assuming that trick still works.

I would guess, with relatively high confidence, that 90%+ of people would be SOL in that scenario.

You can also use that trick with a 12V battery via a jumper cable from a friend's car.

 

[MattUNI]

You can also use that trick with a 12V battery via a jumper cable from a friend's car.

Oh, that's clever. I need to store that away in the old knowledge bank. Thanks.

 

[boriszima]

You can also use that trick with a 12V battery via a jumper cable from a friend's car.

In ice alternator will power the car if 12V is dead, what about in Tesla? If battery is drained so jumping it will help. But if it’s dead, it’s dead. One downside with dead 12v, can’t put car in tow mode and move it.

 

[bsd107]

The only thing I wish warranty did not exclude is rattles as I now have some really bad ones. Come on Tesla I have to pay for poor assembly?

Thanks for the heads-up. I have had my Model 3 LR AWD for about 4 weeks now, and no issues. EXCEPT there are sometimes strange noises coming from somewhere at the front of the car while driving at highway speed. Some kind of rattle or something loose. Assuming that this rattle will only get worse over time...

 

[jboy210]

In ice alternator will power the car if 12V is dead, what about in Tesla? If battery is drained so jumping it will help. But if it’s dead, it’s dead. One downside with dead 12v, can’t put car in tow mode and move it.

That is the purpose of the trick/technique shown in the video. Once you provide outside power you can get the frunk open. Then have access to the 12V battery by popping off the panel on the top at the back of the frunk. Once you are at the 12V battery you can connect a charger and see if can take a charge. Or will go into tow mode.

 

[notinuse]

Car failure can happen. They should have been given a loaner.

 

[Dolemite]

Thanks for providing the warning signs.

Apparently Tesla is looking into removing the 12V from the car. It is small and drives a number of systems and needs to be recharged from the main battery and is a failure point.

Interesting about removing the 12v. Would the car just use the big batter or would they add something else?

Mobile service guy told me it was a government requirement for airbags & whatnot.

 

[drtimhill]

Tesla fan-boy's response: "Wow, this is so cool, your Tesla messaged you over the air to get service. And dispatched a tow-truck on top. Tesla rocks!"

Everyone else: "WTF - your $50+K car left you stranded after only 5K miles on the odometer! And no loaner on top. Tesla sucks!"

Neither, hopefully. Do expensive break down? Duh! Mercedes/BMW aren't exactly the paragon of reliability either. Certainly some amount of this is because its a Tesla, but yeah it should NOT have broken down, given it has like 10% of the moving parts of an ICE car. My hope is that any bad press about Tesla service will finally get Tesla to wake up and do something to improve.

 

[Roger Keay]

Plenty of model 3s have passed 5 thousand miles so the root of the problem is not likely to be design. Premature wear can also be discounted because the Telsa forums would be full of people screaming if that happened. Pre delivery transportation, road damage or misuse causing a part or system failure is always a possibility. I don't think that Car and Driver employees and contractors would deliberately abuse any vehicle. The magazine has a reputation to uphold based on providing accurate and unbiased information. Infant mortality is more likely the source of the problem due to defective parts or bad assembly. If infant mortality problems were common in critical systems then the forums would have told us by now.

I think C&D just happened to get a car with a manufacturing defect that took at little over 5 thousand miles to make itself known. The good news is Tesla advised the driver when the fault became apparent which is actually proactive customer service. The bad news is Michigan doesn't allow Tesla to operate its own repair facilities in the state so the car had to be trucked to Toledo. Tesla's less than stellar customer service is commonly discussed in the forums and must be improved particularly as viable competition has come to their market segment. Their response can be typical of car repair shops but sometimes they surprise you. I have dropped by to ask a question and had an unscheduled minor repair done while I waited.
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