Car charged at higher amps than set. Blew out my fuse box

[3sr+buyer]

I bought the 10-30 adaptor from Tesla. Apparently 24A is too much here.

Hmmm, was there a dryer plugged into that outlet? Seems that if 24A is too much, using a dryer might have blown the panel as well.

 

[jjrandorin]

Hmmm, was there a dryer plugged into that outlet? Seems that if 24A is too much, using a dryer might have blown the panel as well.

A dryer isnt a continuous load, though. Even if one is the type to do all your laundry in one day (we do ours that way), that would be a couple hours tops, then a pause, then a couple hours, during a day, then nothing till laundry needs to be done again.

I dont know how electric dryers work, but I suspect its like my electric oven, in that it pulses the power on and off to maintain temperature. I can see my electric wall oven do that when I am watching power flow from my solar / powerwalls.

The oven pulls a bunch of energy warming up, but then pulses on and off to maintain heat. Its likely the dyer is the same.

Said another way (and I am aware you likely know all this, from your previous posts on the subject), its possible for the dryer to be fine there, but EV charging not to be, because one is continuous load and one isnt.

 

[Sophias_dad]

I'll take the opposite tack from an earlier poster. There's no need to fight it, but I'd consider figuring out what else was using power at the same time as your charging. The last time I poked at a 60 amp main panel there were all of six circuits hanging off of it. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out what else is using gobs of power during charge sessions. It also could well be that those 50 year old fuses had just had enough and blew well below their rating.

I would consider charging at a lower rate like 12 amps, if your commute would allow it, before abandoning charging altogether. Might buy a couple spare 60 amp fuses just in case one blows again so the landlord/electrician doesn't need to get involved.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Your fusebox is likely working much better now that everything has been cleaned and re-tightened so between that and @Sophias_dad's suggestion to set a lower rate you should be fine. If it blows again just tell them you were doing a really big load of laundry.

 

[ucmndd]

Hmmm, was there a dryer plugged into that outlet? Seems that if 24A is too much, using a dryer might have blown the panel as well.

A typical electric dryer cycles the ~3-4kw heating element on and off every minute or so to maintain the desired temperature.

A car charging on a 30 amp outlet is drawing 24 amps (~5.7kw) continuously, for potentially 8+ hours at a time. They are fundamentally different loads.

 

[STS-134]

Thanks for the replies.
A few details. I use the mobile charger provided with the car and a Gen 2 NEMA Adaptor 10-30 to plug into the clothes dryer outlet. I only charge after midnight to take advantage of off-peak rates and avoid conflict with the dryer.

I presume that you have things set up so that the dryer and car can never draw current simultaneously? For example, either physically removing one plug and inserting the other, or with a device like the Dryer Buddy? If you have a NEMA 10-30 outlet, it's supposed to be able to take a continuous 24A of current (not more than 24A, because of the 80% rule for continuous loads). If it cannot take 24A of continuous current, then this is fundamentally unsafe and the electrican needs to remedy the situation and your landlord needs to pay for it.

I think it's time to run your car down to below 10% SoC and charge up to 90%, although I'd do it while you are awake and make sure that nothing starts a fire. If the breakers, wiring, or outlet start getting hot, something needs to be replaced. You should never have use the car to throttle the charge limit when you are plugged directly into an outlet with the proper adapter. Since the house already comes with a 10-30 outlet, presumably to run an electric dryer, making sure that the 10-30 outlet, breakers, and panel are safe and compliant with all electrical codes is your landlord's responsibility, not yours.

A typical electric dryer cycles the ~3-4kw heating element on and off every minute or so to maintain the desired temperature.

A car charging on a 30 amp outlet is drawing 24 amps (~5.7kw) continuously, for potentially 8+ hours at a time. They are fundamentally different loads.

That isn't relevant though. A 10-30 outlet should be able to run a 24A continuous load, end of story. If it cannot, without something overheating and burning out, there's a code violation somewhere in the system. The dryer can, of course, draw up to a full 30A of current, so long as it doesn't do so continuously, but since it is allowed (in theory) to draw a continuous 24A of current for many hours on end, the outlet, breakers, and wiring should be able to handle this (in practice).

 

[ucmndd]

That isn't relevant though. A 10-30 outlet should be able to run a 24A continuous load, end of story. If it cannot, without something overheating and burning out, there's a code violation somewhere in the system.

I'm not sure "janky 70 year old panel" is a code violation in and of itself. It's just the reality of OP's situation.

There's no practical reason why a 60 amp panel shouldn't be able to handle a 30 amp circuit. But, things get old and degrade, as we've no doubt seen here. The right thing to do is to replace the ancient equipment with modern stuff, but that's significant money and apparently something the landlord isn't willing to entertain at the moment.

I agree that things will probably function fine again with new fuses, cleaned connections, etc. But I'd still probably reduce the current to something lower if I could get away with it.

 

[STS-134]

I'm not sure "janky 70 year old panel" is a code violation in and of itself. It's just the reality of OP's situation.

There's no practical reason why a 60 amp panel shouldn't be able to handle a 30 amp circuit. But, things get old and degrade, as we've no doubt seen here. The right thing to do is to replace the ancient equipment with modern stuff, but that's significant money and apparently something the landlord isn't willing to entertain at the moment.

The landlord is responsible for making sure that the house is safe and everything is up to code. If the 60A panel cannot actually handle 60A, that is unsafe and needs to immediately be remedied. There are also laws about providing heat during the winter, etc. This is one of those things where the landlord doesn't have a choice -- the 10-30 outlet needs to be able to supply 24A of continuous current. If it can't, then something is extremely unsafe and needs immediate replacement. A dryer load may not trigger this condition right now, but as things continue to degrade, it's eventually going to reach the point where the dryer can cause a fire.

I agree that things will probably function fine again with new fuses, cleaned connections, etc. But I'd still probably reduce the current to something lower if I could get away with it.

I disagree. If I were the OP, I'd run the OBC at 24A continuously to make sure that something doesn't blow up, although I'd do it while I was awake and have a fire extinguisher nearby to make sure that if something does overheat, it doesn't cause a lot of damage. But you generally want to "stress test" your electrical system deliberately so that stuff doesn't start burning when you are asleep or not home.

Before I did my panel replacement and service upgrade, the wiring would get hot enough that the stove breaker would trip -- but only if I turned on all of the burners to HIGH at the same time. I asked if it was okay to leave it as is since I would soon be replacing the entire panel and all breakers anyway for the service upgrade, since I almost never use all of the burners simultaneously on HIGH. Electrician said nope, this is very unsafe and the breaker needs immediate replacement and the wiring should be cleaned off. The same situation applies here.

 

[ucmndd]

The landlord is responsible for making sure that the house is safe and everything is up to code. If the 60A panel cannot actually handle 60A, that is unsafe and needs to immediately be remedied. There are also laws about providing heat during the winter, etc. This is one of those things where the landlord doesn't have a choice -- the 10-30 outlet needs to be able to supply 24A of continuous current. If it can't, then something is extremely unsafe and needs immediate replacement. A dryer load may not trigger this condition right now, but as things continue to degrade, it's eventually going to reach the point where the dryer can cause a fire.

I disagree. If I were the OP, I'd run the OBC at 24A continuously to make sure that something doesn't blow up, although I'd do it while I was awake and have a fire extinguisher nearby to make sure that if something does overheat, it doesn't cause a lot of damage. But you generally want to "stress test" your electrical system deliberately so that stuff doesn't start burning when you are asleep or not home.

Before I did my panel replacement and service upgrade, the wiring would get hot enough that the stove breaker would trip -- but only if I turned on all of the burners to HIGH at the same time. I asked if it was okay to leave it as is since I would soon be replacing the entire panel and all breakers anyway for the service upgrade, since I almost never use all of the burners simultaneously on HIGH. Electrician said nope, this is very unsafe and the breaker needs immediate replacement and the wiring should be cleaned off. The same situation applies here.

An impassioned, principled response that is essentially useless to the OP for all practical purposes.

Who do you think is gonna win if a tenant goes to war over this with a landlord in today's housing market? I've got a guess.

 

[davewill]

For starters, you probably need to actually have this discussion with the landlord, although he's quite likely to say no. The only avenue you might have to fight is if the panel is not up to code, and/or is not properly permitted. You could then report the unsafe electical panel, and he would presumably be required to update it.

However, none of that means he then has to allow you to charge your Tesla at home. I'd start shopping for a new place to live if I couldn't come to an agreement with the landlord.

 

[appleguru]

Update: The landlord hired an electrician friend of his to replace a few parts on the old fuse box. The electrician said to me and I presume my landlord that I should not charge the Tesla at home. Should I accept this or fight it?

I’d argue that the landlord owes you a functional electrical system, that can safely supply power to devices and appliances plugged in at the property.

With that said, the dryer outlet was not intended for EV charging and may not be able to deal with a continuous load on it. (Especially if it isn’t up to code or has undersized wire running to it).

So I would just charge on a normal 15A 120V outlet (at 12A) and call it a day. They don’t really get to dictate what you plug into an outlet as long as you don’t exceed the outlet’s continuous load rating.

Regardless though, I would have the conversation with the landlord, and offer to help pay for upgrades if needed. If he really doesn’t want to budge, I’d probably charge anyways and fully expect to not have my lease renewed.

With all that said, I lived in the city for ~5 years with no place to charge my car at home and it wasn’t bad. I talked my office into installing a charger and used that + supercharging quite successfully.

 

[STS-134]

An impassioned, principled response that is essentially useless to the OP for all practical purposes.

Who do you think is gonna win if a tenant goes to war over this with a landlord in today's housing market? I've got a guess.

Who do you think is gonna win if there's a fire after there's written documentation that the landlord was made aware of, and then ignored, a safety issue with the electrical panel? I've got a guess. And by the way, I've also got a pretty good guess what the landlord's insurance company is going to do if he or she submits a claim for said fire.

A NEMA 10-30 outlet, attached to a 30A breaker or fuse, should be able to take 24A of continuous current, end of story. It doesn't matter if the current is being drawn by a dryer, an electric vehicle, a heating system, or even a giant 5.7kW resistor. And if there's evidence that the problem was ignored and damage resulted, courts are going to rule against the party that ignored the problem, and insurance companies are going to deny claims.

So I would just charge on a normal 15A 120V outlet (at 12A) and call it a day. They don’t really get to dictate what you plug into an outlet as long as you don’t exceed the outlet’s continuous load rating.

...and by that statement, it's perfectly fine to charge at 24A on a NEMA 10-30 outlet.

 

[davewill]

Who do you think is gonna win if there's a fire after there's written documentation that the landlord was made aware of, and then ignored, a safety issue with the electrical panel? I've got a guess. And by the way, I've also got a pretty good guess what the landlord's insurance company is going to do if he or she submits a claim for said fire.

If the fire was caused by him charging his car, your guess might be wrong, since the tenant was warned by the electrician not to charge his car. At this point, IMHO, it's on the tenant to clarify the charging situation with the landlord, which probably won't end up with the go ahead to charge his car. At this point, I can't see any path to forcing the landlord to allow/provide charging.

 

[RayK]

I’d argue that the landlord owes you a functional electrical system, that can safely supply power to devices and appliances plugged in at the property.

With that said, the dryer outlet, was not intended for EV charging and may not be able to deal with a continuous load on it.

So I would just charge on a normal 15A 120V outlet (at 12A) and call it a day. They don’t really get to dictate what you plug into an outlet as long as you don’t exceed the outlet’s continuous load rating.

Possibly another option would be to use something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Accell-P-10-30-USA-001-10-30-Adapter-Axfast/dp/B07DTGSWSW

It would convert the 10-30 dryer outlet to a 6-20. You'd have to buy the NEMA 6-20 Gen2 mobile connector adapter but you'd at least be able to get about 15 MPH.

 

[ucmndd]

Who do you think is gonna win if there's a fire after there's written documentation that the landlord was made aware of, and then ignored, a safety issue with the electrical panel?

"Update: The landlord hired an electrician friend of his to replace a few parts on the old fuse box."

Where does the "ignored" part come in?

I'm gonna skip over the fear mongering and persistent urban legend about super-aggressive insurance companies refusing to cover damage from electrical fires for pretty much any reason one can imagine.

 

[STS-134]

If the fire was caused by him charging his car, your guess might be wrong, since the tenant was warned by the electrician not to charge his car.

That's irrelevant unless the fire was started by the car (but if that happened, the renter's insurance should kick in). There is nothing in any electrical code that says it's ok to draw 24A from a 10-30 for the purposes of running a dryer or air conditioner but charging a car is forbidden.

 

[STS-134]

"Update: The landlord hired an electrician friend of his to replace a few parts on the old fuse box."

Where does the "ignored" part come in?

We need the OP to chime in here. OP seems to be hesitant about charging at 24A, but if the panel, wiring, and outlet are fully code compliant, there is nothing wrong with doing this. Also unknown is why the OP throttled the charge current from 24A to 22A in the first place; when using the 10-30 adapter with a 10-30 outlet, the car will not draw more continuous current than the outlet allows and the hardware in the UMC and plug adapter assures this.

 

[appleguru]

That's irrelevant unless the fire was started by the car (but if that happened, the renter's insurance should kick in). There is nothing in any electrical code that says it's ok to draw 24A from a 10-30 for the purposes of running a dryer or air conditioner but charging a car is forbidden.

That’s not quite true.. NEC 625 has specific requirements for outlets used for EV charging.

 

[InigoMontoya]

You also mentioned:


I am not a lawyer (not even close) but I am not sure how you can "fight" this, so to speak. You rent the home, and presumably the landlord is the owner of the property. It seems to me that, they would be within their rights to say to you:

===============
"It appears that a subject matter expert (electrician) has determined that the home does not currently support electric vehicle charging. If you would like to charge here, this is the list of upgrades to the electrical system that will need to be made. Since this will be in support of you charging your car, if you desire this, you will need to bear this cost. Let me know how you would like to proceed".
==============

(or something like that)

Your only recourse at that point would seem to be to either (1) pay for upgrades (which if extensive doesnt make much sense at a property you rent, (2), Not charge there and deal with finding charging, or (3) not charge there and deal with finding charging, then move to someplace that supports charging.

Like I said, not a lawyer or anything like that at all, it just seems to me that the owner of the property gets to dictate how repairs or upgrades get done as long as there are no code violations, so not sure how much "fighting" you can do here.

Thanks. By "fight" I mean argue/negotiate. Like, would it be okay to still charge but plug into 110 outlet?
Or, would it be okay to charge from the dryer outlet if I buy a device that manages the flow of electricity? I'm not sure if Dryer Buddy does this, but there must be something.

There is a SC 3 miles away, so that's what I'll do for now.

 

[STS-134]

That’s not quite true.. NEC 625 has specific requirements for outlets used for EV charging.

Okay but nothing in there prohibits using a NEMA 10-30 outlet @ 24A.