Car died 1200 miles from home... ugh

[MrFusion]

"how would you pay for a road trip by credit card?" I am not sure I understand this question. You put any supercharging charges, food charges, and travel charges such as hotel stays, airplane, train, bus, etc on a credit card. Its unlikely you are traveling by train, bus, etc, but if you are staying a hotel, put that on a credit card.

On the "I bought a new car so should never get stuck in it, so the new car manufacturer should pay for my hotel stay because I got stuck".... I would like to see you contact BMW or Mercedes or Porsche, or Lexus or Audi or Caddillac if you bought one of their cars new and say the same thing, and expect them to pay it.

Trip interruption insurance pays you back for prepaid charges that aren’t refundable, generally in the case of you becoming ill on a trip. An example would be if you prepaid for a two week hotel stay and have a flight that comes home at the end but you need to leave after one week due to an injury. The trip interruption insurance would cover the non-refundable part of the hotel stay, refund your return flight ticket, and provide you with a return flight on the earlier date.

When you are driving your own car home on a road trip it’s unlikely that you have any prepaid expenses. The issue is that you incur additional expenses due to your trip being extended, not interrupted, which is not covered by trip interruption insurance.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The end result is that the wiring harness on the AC compressor had frayed and shorted out. So the AC that I’m not even using in the winter disabled the whole car. The service center tech said this is a known, common issue that she has seen strand people many times.

Assuming this is an accurate description for a moment: You should ask for a picture, so people can identify where the fraying takes place, so other owners can check this themselves and take corrective action. I certainly want to go check out my compressor wiring harness now (easy to do)! Seems crazy to get stranded by a harness that wears through, which should be totally preventable. Even if it’s a defective design, it can be fixed/mitigated before it causes problems.

Anyway, does anyone know exactly where this fraying takes place?

I’d be a bit surprised if it were truly a frayed harness, rather than a marginal one that simply lost contact somehow (which would be impossible to identify before failure). But...you said it was a short...which implies fraying. Intriguing. A short on the HV system would seem very bad (and presumably would blow the pyrofuse)...I assume this was on a 12V control line harness.

 

[MrFusion]

Assuming this is an accurate description for a moment: You should ask for a picture, so people can identify where the fraying takes place, so other owners can check this themselves and take corrective action. I certainly want to go check out my compressor wiring harness now (easy to do)! Seems crazy to get stranded by a harness that wears through, which should be totally preventable. Even if it’s a defective design, it can be fixed/mitigated before it causes problems.

Anyway, does anyone know exactly where this fraying takes place?

I’d be a bit surprised if it were truly a frayed harness, rather than a marginal one that simply lost contact somehow (which would be impossible to identify before failure). But...you said it was a short...which implies fraying. Intriguing. A short on the HV system would seem very bad (and presumably would blow the pyrofuse)...I assume this was on a 12V control line harness.

The service advisor said that the harness actually looks like an animal has chewed on it, but it’s not from an animal and is how they all look when the problem occurs. They guessed that it probably finally broke and then when I got off the freeway to charge there was enough movement from turns, braking, bumps, etc. that it caused the wires to finally touch.

The replaced part was:
AC COMPRESSOR, 33CC(1088198-00-N)

Apparently the harness is integrated with the compressor and can’t be replaced separately.

As a separate check they did this for another known issue but did not find any problems:

Concern: Inspect X950 and X952 for Damaged Electrical Circuits Performed connector inspection per bulletin. No further repairs necessary
Correction: Inspect Electrical Insulation Near Electrical Circuits At X950 And X952; No Wire Repair Necessary

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The service advisor said that the harness actually looks like an animal has chewed on it, but it’s not from an animal and is how they all look when the problem occurs.

I strongly encourage the sleuths at TMC to get to work on this and figure out exactly where this fraying on the compressor is happening, and come up with a patch. Seems important! I assume it no longer applies on new vehicles, but wonder whether all or just some vehicles were affected?

 

[trojaneen]

My BMW's transmission went out 400 miles from home. My VW's radiator failed 1,200 miles from home. My cousin's corvette broke an axle 500 miles from home. All of these incidents were a major hassle, but I can't imagine requesting renumeration from any of those companies, beyond the actual warranty. It's a car, and things happen.

 

[Gizmo35]

Someone bought/leased the wrong car. It clearly has too many risks at this time to fit into your lifestyle and or expectations. Nothing wrong with that. These are not comparable to an ice car in many ways as you have pointed out. Lesson learnt. Get you a car that a regular mechanic can diagnose and fix in a jiffy in case of problems away from home.

 

[Gasaraki]

No, I’m expecting the Tesla remote diagnostics to identify this and then Tesla to send out somebody with a new battery if that is truly the issue. If this was an ICE car a battery issue could be identified by pretty much anybody, even the kid working at Autozone and I would buy a battery, install it in 10 minutes and be on my way. Instead I have to wait 2 days for the service center in another state to open and travel to the service center. This is why I’m hoping it actually isn’t a battery issue because it could have been solved in 1 hour instead of 2 days if so.

True. The "modern" ICE car has been around for decades so any kid or joe shmoo can diagnose and fix simple problems. It's too bad that you bought an EV that has only really come out the last 10 years. If you based on the few cases with issues, it seems like all EVs are having problems. Kona, Bolt, id3, Teslas, etc. I suggest you go buy a Lexus. They will last forever.

 

[AmokTime]

The Tesla apologists on here are pretty funny. Fact of the matter is this has never happened to any of my previous cars so I guess I’ve just been lucky,...<snip>

This same thing happened to me in a Ford I owned. I figured the car was made on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon. They shoved a wiring harness between the battery and battery clamp. At 2000 miles I noticed weird things happening and my headlights stopped working, stranding me somewhere at night. “Wire chafing” - the same thing that has caused our Air Force so much trouble. It was repaired under warranty, but there was no end to the electrical problems (and plenty of other problems, as well) until I finally sold it. I spent so much money keeping that car on the road...it was a relief when I started buying Toyotas - the only issue I had with my 3 Toyotas was a very leaky moonroof on my 2009 Camry (drain line came apart). I’ve had good luck with my two M3s so far - no problems yet, though we haven’t driven much this year. We have 8 months and just over 2000 miles on the 2020 and 18 months and 13,000 on the 2019.

 

[AmokTime]

Oops, 17 months on the 2019.

 

[Sklith]

I’m pretty sure if the AC compressor goes out on any other brand of car the whole car doesn’t just stop working. Say what you will but the bleeding edge tech in Tesla is just not nearly as reliable as a well established brand.

You know that the AC is used when the car's supercharging, right? It'd be pretty bad if the traction battery got damaged during a charging session.

 

[dmurphy]

So the AC that I’m not even using in the winter disabled the whole car. The service center tech said this is a known, common issue that she has seen strand people many times. I’m pretty sure if the AC compressor goes out on any other brand of car the whole car doesn’t just stop working.

Oh, that's so very not true. Been a victim of it myself.

Had the A/C compressor seize up on a Nissan Altima years ago. When it seized, the pulley froze. When the pulley froze, the serpentine belt snapped. When the serpentine belt snaps, the alternator stops. So does the water pump. Found myself riding in a tow truck.

 

[Kamban]

The Tesla apologists on here are pretty funny. Fact of the matter is this has never happened to any of my previous cars so I guess I’ve just been lucky, but it has definitely soured the brand for me because of the lack of service centers in large parts of the country. If I had a Toyota break in the first 10,000 miles (which is highly unlikely compared to Tesla) then it could be fixed in almost any town in the country. For Tesla the car has to get towed 100 miles to a service center that might not even be on your route.

The end result is that the wiring harness on the AC compressor had frayed and shorted out. So the AC that I’m not even using in the winter disabled the whole car. The service center tech said this is a known, common issue that she has seen strand people many times. I’m pretty sure if the AC compressor goes out on any other brand of car the whole car doesn’t just stop working. Say what you will but the bleeding edge tech in Tesla is just not nearly as reliable as a well established brand.

I don't disagree with your statement but that is the price we pay for cutting edge tech that is constantly evolving. If we waited for a safe reliable EV we will be waiting for ever and the prices will remain high, like the S and the X.

In order to bring EV to the masses Tesla had to pump out tons of Model 3 and now Y. It also had to do it in order to keep itself viable. It has skirted with near bankruptcy as recently as a couple of years ago, due to cash problems. They can only build more and more service centers as they have money. And states like SC even prevent them from happening, due to the ICE lobby here. Kudos to them for building the supercharger network.

I am sure that even if you buy an ID4 from VW, their local dealer won't have the tech to diagnose and repair the EV's quickly. They still make their money from ICE service and that is where they will put their resources.

Things happen. Some worse than others. A 70 year old fairly fit friend caught COVID and died in 3 days. That will put your misfortune in perspective. If you feel this is too cutting edge and that Tesla is not up to snuff, go with ICE for a few more years.

I had a SR+ for about the same time as you. No major issues till it was involved in a collision of no fault of mine. All air bags deployed and I was able to walk out with just pains and no broken bones, four weeks ago. And I am picking up a Y this week.

 

[Roosherdc]

Anecdotal. And useless to the discussion. My model 3 is 2 years old and never had any failure. Should that mean they're all without flaws?

Tesla should pay for food/lodging until a loaner is provided, which in case of a complete failure... should be within hours (and thus they don't need to pay anything).

where else in the world do you get paid for down time. Where is the expectation coming from that someone needs to pay for everything that happens when a product doesn’t work. Like mentioned before. No other car manufacturer is covering these expenses when a part fail happens leaving you stranded, outside of providing a rental or a courtesy ride to your location. I’m struggling to even think of any company that sells you a product and then would cover all of the things that happen in life when your product breaks. Phones, appliances, clothes, shoes. When they break the company doesn’t then reimburse you for things you couldn’t cook, calls you couldn’t make, events that you couldn’t attend in their products.

Things break and there’s a reasonable expectation to correct those things. Not to take care of your whole life that revolves around what broke.

would it be nice, sure. But is it realistic, or to complain that Tesla is somehow dropping the ball in service by not covering cost they never committed to covering???????

 

[adrianp89]

where else in the world do you get paid for down time. Where is the expectation coming from that someone needs to pay for everything that happens when a product doesn’t work. Like mentioned before. No other car manufacturer is covering these expenses when a part fail happens leaving you stranded, outside of providing a rental or a courtesy ride to your location. I’m struggling to even think of any company that sells you a product and then would cover all of the things that happen in life when your product breaks. Phones, appliances, clothes, shoes. When they break the company doesn’t then reimburse you for things you couldn’t cook, calls you couldn’t make, events that you couldn’t attend in their products.

Things break and there’s a reasonable expectation to correct those things. Not to take care of your whole life that revolves around what broke.

would it be nice, sure. But is it realistic, or to complain that Tesla is somehow dropping the ball in service by not covering cost they never committed to covering???????

someone didn’t read the whole thread. But Ford was listed as one example. If my fridge breaks I get a $200 reimbursement check for food. A ripped t shirt or a broken shoe won’t leave me with extra expenses so this is a poor example. Of course if I bought a high end shoe and it came apart on first use, causing me to tear an Achilles, I could sue for damages and win.

 

[MrFusion]

where else in the world do you get paid for down time. Where is the expectation coming from that someone needs to pay for everything that happens when a product doesn’t work. Like mentioned before. No other car manufacturer is covering these expenses when a part fail happens leaving you stranded, outside of providing a rental or a courtesy ride to your location. I’m struggling to even think of any company that sells you a product and then would cover all of the things that happen in life when your product breaks. Phones, appliances, clothes, shoes. When they break the company doesn’t then reimburse you for things you couldn’t cook, calls you couldn’t make, events that you couldn’t attend in their products.

Things break and there’s a reasonable expectation to correct those things. Not to take care of your whole life that revolves around what broke.

would it be nice, sure. But is it realistic, or to complain that Tesla is somehow dropping the ball in service by not covering cost they never committed to covering???????

If you book a flight and the plane breaks the airline doesn’t say “sorry, we’ll have it fixed in 2 days and until then you’ll have to pay for your own hotel”, they pay for your hotel until they have the plane fixed or have an alternate solution to get you home. To me it’s the same thing.

 

[Apone]

I've been reading along and resisting chiming in... The reason is because of the mob that will certainly show up. People are jumping all over the guy because a car he is paying for is not working for his needs. If people have a bad experience with a brand or product, it will influence their opinion going forward. This can happen with a fast food sandwich you paid $4.99 for and it can definitely happen with a $40k - $60k car. I love sports cars and I'm here for the speed and efficient way it is delivered. One of my key interests was the low number of moving parts to break not like a BMW where I expect parts to break and to be expensive when they do. My experience is: Japanese cars tend to be very reliable. Small breaks and usually not crazy expensive to fix. I did have a '93 Mazda MX3 V6 drop a water pump on me once, I beat the heck out of that car to be fair. Also had my 1986 honda stop on me due to auto tranny issues but those were old, super used and my first two cars. The younger ones after that taken care of by me were super reliable. American cars are a toss up. Some last forever and some have given failures in the first few weeks. Pontiacs were junk after 60k sometimes and 80k was a very old one to me. German cars used to be tanks but modern ones will break and it will be costly. They have loaners and nice waiting rooms but hassle factor is there. Again, very expensive. Italian....all bets off. It will break. As far as Tesla. They are new, they are a new type of car, they can't be fixed anywhere outside of Tesla. You have to know what you are getting into. My 85 year old father and his wife wanted a Tesla, I discouraged them while at the same time I was getting mine. They won't have the patience, they won't get the touchscreen, they will have no stomach for weird glitches or make any apologies for stuff going wrong. They have Lexus cars and that's perfect for them. They won't break and when they do they have full service dealers everywhere with Toyota level resources and experience.

I was very worried taking a chance on Tesla and there is a lot I like about the car. But if it starts to give me trouble, I have no special allegiance to them or Musk just like they don't have one for me. I saw a member the other day on this forum talking about a $6k electric motor repair on his model S. All the money you have saved over ICE is gone. That's BMW, Porsche, Mercedes ex-warranty level money. The only way to have Tesla continue to do well is to hold them accountable and help them become the company we hope that they can. Reliability of Japanese, Performance of Germans. Service of either and cost of.........? If this is the cost of BMW with equal or worse reliability and service, we have to be realistic about that. Between the fans and the stockholders it can be hard to have a rational conversation sometimes.

 

[MrFusion]

I've been reading along and resisting chiming in... The reason is because of the mob that will certainly show up. People are jumping all over the guy because a car he is paying for is not working for his needs. If people have a bad experience with a brand or product, it will influence their opinion going forward. This can happen with a fast food sandwich you paid $4.99 for and it can definitely happen with a $40k - $60k car. I love sports cars and I'm here for the speed and efficient way it is delivered. One of my key interests was the low number of moving parts to break not like a BMW where I expect parts to break and to be expensive when they do. My experience is: Japanese cars tend to be very reliable. Small breaks and usually not crazy expensive to fix. I did have a '93 Mazda MX3 V6 drop a water pump on me once, I beat the heck out of that car to be fair. Also had my 1986 honda stop on me due to auto tranny issues but those were old, super used and my first two cars. The younger ones after that taken care of by me were super reliable. American cars are a toss up. Some last forever and some have given failures in the first few weeks. Pontiacs were junk after 60k sometimes and 80k was a very old one to me. German cars used to be tanks but modern ones will break and it will be costly. They have loaners and nice waiting rooms but hassle factor is there. Again, very expensive. Italian....all bets off. It will break. As far as Tesla. They are new, they are a new type of car, they can't be fixed anywhere outside of Tesla. You have to know what you are getting into. My 85 year old father and his wife wanted a Tesla, I discouraged them as I was getting mine. They won't have the patience, they won't get the touchscreen, they will have no stomach for weird glitches or make any apologies for stuff going wrong. They have Lexus cars and that's perfect for them. They won't break and when they do they have full service dealers everywhere with Toyota level resources and experience.

I was very worried taking a chance on Tesla and there is a lot I like about the car. But if it starts to give me trouble, I have no special allegiance to them or Musk just like they don't have one for me. I saw a member the other day on this forum talking about a $6k electric motor repair on his model S. All the money you have saved over ICE is gone. That's BMW, Porsche, Mercedes ex-warranty level money. The only way to have Tesla continue to do well is to hold them accountable and help them become the company we hope that they can. Reliability of Japanese, Performance of Germans. Service of either and cost of.........? If this is the cost of BMW with equal or worse reliability and service, we have to be realistic about that. Between the fans and the stockholders it can be hard to have a rational conversation sometimes.

I agree and is the point I am trying to make as well. I am (was?) a Tesla fan just like everybody else in here but I personally know two other people who are long-time high end car buyers who both bought a Model S and got rid of it within a year and went back to BMW simply because they had so many problems with the Model S. The fans will ignore lots of things but “regular” people who switch to the brand and are used to a high level of quality just won’t stand for tons of minor issues, not to mention major ones. I think as the Tesla buyer base grows this will become one of their major hurdles, especially once the bigger companies ramp up their own EVs. I think a lot of the mystique of Tesla right now isn’t from them being a high end or luxury car company but more from the fact that they are “the EV company” right now. I hope they can continue to keep up once all companies are EV companies in the future.

 

[Apone]

I agree and is the point I am trying to make as well. I am (was?) a Tesla fan just like everybody else in here but I personally know two other people who are long-time high end car buyers who both bought a Model S and got rid of it within a year and went back to BMW simply because they had so many problems with the Model S. The fans will ignore lots of things but “regular” people who switch to the brand and are used to a high level of quality just won’t stand for tons of minor issues, not to mention major ones. I think as the Tesla buyer base grows this will become one of their major hurdles, especially once the bigger companies ramp up their own EVs. I think a lot of the mystique of Tesla right now isn’t from them being a high end or luxury car company but more from the fact that they are “the EV company” right now. I hope they can continue to keep up once all companies are EV companies in the future.

Agreed. It stands to wonder if that was even his plan. I think he wanted to steal share and prove his tech (done) and then have the other car makers give up and say ok we will license or buy your tech. He wanted to be the battery guy. But other companies are choosing to fight and try to make their own tech and their own charging networks so he has a fight on his hands. I think he has range increases up his sleeve and holds them to release right when competitors do. It's not a customer driven approach but it will help them survive.

Again, I'm sorry that this happened to you and I understand your frustration. I'm hopeful (selfishly) that I don't have any of the same issues. Best of luck moving forward.

 

[dmurphy]

If you book a flight and the plane breaks the airline doesn’t say “sorry, we’ll have it fixed in 2 days and until then you’ll have to pay for your own hotel”, they pay for your hotel until they have the plane fixed or have an alternate solution to get you home. To me it’s the same thing.

Apples and tree stumps. Completely different things.

With the airlines - you're not buying a Boeing - you're paying for a transportation *service*. And, being a frequent flyer, they don't always pay for hotels either. Weather, airport issues, air traffic control problems, anything aside from something 100% in their control - and you're on your own. That's why we always see B-roll footage of people sleeping on airport floors anytime there's major delays at the airports.

With a car - you're buying a hunk of metal and plastic. Tesla, BMW, Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota - none of them are responsible for getting you to wherever it is you're planning to go. That's not part of what you purchased; there's no contract of carriage.

Wholly different kettle of fish.

I'm not saying it doesn't suck when something breaks - of course it does. But the manufacturer's responsibility is to repair whatever broke, not to transport you somewhere. That's not what you bought and not in any agreement you have with them.

If my MacBook Pro breaks, I don't get to bill Apple because my client's work doesn't get done. They repair it, I grumble, we move on together.

 

[Roosherdc]

If you book a flight and the plane breaks the airline doesn’t say “sorry, we’ll have it fixed in 2 days and until then you’ll have to pay for your own hotel”, they pay for your hotel until they have the plane fixed or have an alternate solution to get you home. To me it’s the same thing.

Comparison isn’t the same. You didn’t buy the plane. You are paying for a transportation service with a specific pick you up and arrival time Delays are their responsibility. The airline is your provider for that trip. When you purchase a car the manufacturer does not become a guarantor of all your specific plans with the vehicles. Doesnt happen. Isn’t a standard with any company anywhere. Sure ford or whoever can do something as goodwill but that isn’t their standard or policy. Ask yourself and ask around. When your car breaks other than a rental, no company is compensating or caring for your missed meetings, events, etc. I’ll add in general cause someone can always say, well this one time my car broke and they also gave me blah blah blah. But those are the rare exceptions, not the norm or the rule