Car & Driver hates Trip Planner

[Max*]

The only feature of the trip planner that I use is to estimate charging time at the supercharger to hit my next destination.

And even then, I don't set it to navigate from Point A to Point B, I set it to the 2nd supercharge on the route, so that it navigates me through the 1rst supercharger and gives me an estimate as to how long it thinks I should charge at the first supercharger...

 

[MorrisonHiker]

VIR is a regular playground for Car & Driver. Many others were converging for an event, this article was the telling of only one journey there.

Just wondering...is it common in the east/midwest to refer to Virginia as VIR? I found it annoying throughout the article but maybe that's how they commonly refer to it in those regions? Didn't three letter abbreviations go away like 50+ years ago when ZIP codes and two letter state abbreviations were implemented? The author looks to be in his 20s vs. his 70s so I wondered about the usage of the abbreviation.

EDIT: Ah, is he referring to Virginia International Raceway? I get it now...but don't know if most people would know what the abbreviation stands for. I don't think he ever spelled out what VIR stands for...but maybe all C&D readers would know that already.

 

[Khatsalano]

It's true. The 6.2 Nav is worse than a Garmin handheld from the early 2000s. Also, tech companies including Google, Apple, Tesla, and others, don't get a free pass by labeling something "beta" as a shield to say the something isn't very good yet. This is especially true when it has an impact on public or personal safety.

- K

 

[deonb]

Yes I do. I for one was on the fence contemplating my Model S purchase.

That would be sad.

I personally think the Model S is a great road trip car. There isn't any case of a road trip at any distance that I would still take an ICE. It's much relaxing in the Model S due to the pacing.

However, what it isn't is an unplanned road trip car - and the article is right on that one. This is essentially what Tesla tried to solve, and failed so miserably at. That you can get in your car, not knowing where you're going to charge next, and just take off.

But the locations of the Supercharger is just a small piece of the puzzle. They are still going to be a 25 to 45 minute stop, so you're going to want to find something to do. And you want to know what's coming up next as well. I certainly don't want to eat at Taco Bell at one location just because I'm there, just to find out that the next Supercharger is located next to a Morton's. I also want to know when that coffee shop next to the Supercharger is closing. I also want to read up on what other people said about things to do at that location.

When you're stopping for gas, and the gas station convenience store is closed - not a big deal, you wait till you're done, and drive 2 miles down the road. When the same happens with the Supercharger though it's a bummer, because then you're not making best use of your stop time.

So trips require upfront planning, except for trips you do regularly. I don't know if ever it won't, or even should - the problem space for that is just too big.

Unfortunately, Tesla is going about solving the wrong problem here. If they want to create tools, create tools that help me plan the trip before I leave... or not even that: Just let me upload my planned trip to the car. That way I can use any software and methodology I want, and look at all the criteria I want.

Getting to my destination is not my only criteria for having a successful trip.


However, once you accept that Tesla is solving the wrong problem, and you ignore their solution and instead plan your trips upfront, the Model S then becomes again what it always used to be: The best road trip vehicle on the road.

 

[doctorwho]

Surely it just means making or buying some food and taking it with you on an 'unplanned' trip? Its always better to not be hostage to what is available near your stopping point, I learnt that with roadside petrol stops - usually very poor quality food and even worse coffee.

 

[tezzla]

This sure looks like a TOP GEAR hit piece to me. A funny story with fabricated problems and a few facts thrown in. Although I know the Nav system has it's problems, most (make that some) people have common sense and would recognize problems before blindly following strict directions (ie: turning left into a lake because it said to).

 

[DDotJ]

"(Note: A “trip mode” exists that unlocks the Tesla’s full range potential, and it was used before setting off from Ann Arbor, but using it often can degrade the battery."

Does he mean Range Mode and is this true? I typically only use it on longer highway trips but this is the first time I've seen this.

Going a bit off topic, the Tesla Navigation is very bad and the SuperCharger routing feature, as others have mentioned, is absolutely horrendous. On Sunday, it wanted to take me 70 miles out of the way to hit an additional SuperCharger I didn't need.

Granted, this guy could have improved his journey significantly with a little more planning but if Tesla truly wants to become mainstream and avoid these types of reviews, the SuperCharger build out needs to continue at its current pace over the next several years and the navigation needs to be outsourced to Google.

I'm sure it has been discussed before but does anyone know why Tesla does their own navigation?

The Trip Mode he's talking about means that he's charging the battery to 100%. When you select the charge limit in the settings, there are 2 labels: "Trip" and "Daily". Range mode is a different feature, it reduces the fan speed for climate control by limiting the fan speed to 7, and for dual motor vehicles it has a torque sleep function that can put one of the two motors to "sleep" which increases the efficiency of Model S about 10%. Charging your battery to 100% with "trip mode" can degrade your battery, whereas range mode will not.

Also, technically Garmin does Tesla's navigation. But the whole trip planner feature is done by Tesla. The selection of the charging stops and the calculations are done by Tesla, and the actual route guidance is done by Garmin. I've never gone on a long trip yet, so I've never used this Trip Planner feature. But I'm definitely not hearing good things...

 

[mknox]

Surely it just means making or buying some food and taking it with you on an 'unplanned' trip? Its always better to not be hostage to what is available near your stopping point, I learnt that with roadside petrol stops - usually very poor quality food and even worse coffee.

Sure, but to be fair, with an ICE, gassing up on a road trip is relatively trivial, and you can separate it from your meal stops. You "could" do this with a Model S, but it would add substantially to your trip elapsed time by taking charging stop(s) separate from your meal stop(s).

 

[deonb]

Surely it just means making or buying some food and taking it with you on an 'unplanned' trip? Its always better to not be hostage to what is available near your stopping point, I learnt that with roadside petrol stops - usually very poor quality food and even worse coffee.

Even then - you want to know where there are picnic tables & bathrooms close by the Superchargers so that you can plan ahead.

I had an exact problem with that over the weekend - Chademo charger that was stated as being next to a picnic table, yet when we got there, no bathrooms and no dogs allowed around the area. Now the charger earned itself a note... so the next person can make a more informed decision, and if that is important to them, they can stop at one of the other chargers in the area instead. But all of this type of feedback only helps if you pre-plan.

I think we're still decades away from a computer being able to figure out my passengers and all of their whims, likings and bladder sizes, and being able to make good stop decisions based on that.

 

[BoldSharpe]

The Trip Mode he's talking about means that he's charging the battery to 100%. When you select the charge limit in the settings, there are 2 labels: "Trip" and "Daily". Range mode is a different feature, it reduces the fan speed for climate control by limiting the fan speed to 7, and for dual motor vehicles it has a torque sleep function that can put one of the two motors to "sleep" which increases the efficiency of Model S about 10%. Charging your battery to 100% with "trip mode" can degrade your battery, whereas range mode will not.

Duh - thanks! I certainly wouldn't call that a 'mode' but his statement is accurate then.

Also, technically Garmin does Tesla's navigation. But the whole trip planner feature is done by Tesla. The selection of the charging stops and the calculations are done by Tesla, and the actual route guidance is done by Garmin. I've never gone on a long trip yet, so I've never used this Trip Planner feature. But I'm definitely not hearing good things....

I can't remember the exact verbiage when a destination is plugged in the nav, but it says something to the effect of 'Navigation provided by Tesla.' I don't doubt the turn by turn directions are actually provided by Garmin but it still begs the question why we can't have basic route options (highways, tolls, etc.) a $99 Garmin from Walmart has... Or why Tesla just doesn't use Google for both the maps and the Nav directions.

 

[igotzzoom]

Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Tesla Model S P85D Road Trip

I think the headline over-dramatizes the situation somewhat. Other than the quirks with the nav system, no major software or mechanical malfunctions to speak of.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/alexan...o-good-very-bad-tesla-model-s-p85d-road-trip/

What do you think?

 

[ChadS]

I personally think the Model S is a great road trip car. There isn't any case of a road trip at any distance that I would still take an ICE. It's much relaxing in the Model S due to the pacing.

However, what it isn't is an unplanned road trip car - and the article is right on that one. This is essentially what Tesla tried to solve, and failed so miserably at. That you can get in your car, not knowing where you're going to charge next, and just take off.

I think deonb wins the thread with this. That's exactly my take - my last 11,000 mile trip was BETTER than any gas trip I've ever taken. But, yeah, I did have to do some planning (though it wasn't a lot, really), whereas I could have taken a gas car on that trip without planning. (Not that I would have, but I could have).

- - - Updated - - -

Charging your battery to 100% with "trip mode" can degrade your battery, whereas range mode will not.

I mostly agree, but would modify this slightly. I don't consider 100% to be bad* for your battery; in fact it is good to balance it every now and then. The problem is if you charge to 100% and then just leave it there. In the case of the trip in this article, he was driving away after charging so I don't see the harm to him charging to 100% - aside from it taking longer when not necessary, of course.

*Some will argue it's bad for the battery. Yeah, sure, but so it using it, or even just parking it and not using it. Batteries wear out no matter what you do. What I'm trying to say is that charging to 100% and then leaving the car like that wears the battery out significantly faster. Charging to 100% and then driving off doesn't have a significant effect. Of course it has some effect. And of course nobody has exact numbers. But no manufacturer test (though many were of different chemistries) or user survey (like the Plug In America battery surveys that tomsax does) have shown any measurable effect as long as you don't leave the car sitting around fully charged.

 

[mike-415]

Yes I do. I for one was on the fence contemplating my Model S purchase.

The truth is that the Tesla is OK (albeit with 25 minutes of stopping every 2-3 hours) on a long road trip if you use EVTripPlanner instead of the crap on-board navi, but it's much better for people like me who generally drive less than 225 miles a day. I've never had to charge anywhere but my garage, and I have never suffered range anxiety. Once, the car went to Sacramento and back, and we calculated that if we drove like maniacs, we'd have to use the supercharger on the way home, but in the end we made it there and back fine on a range charge with 30 stated miles of range to spare. It's not as foolproof as an ICE car where you just roll into a gas station, drooling, whenever you are low on gas, but it also isn't nearly as dramatic as Alex makes it out to be if you use your head (and EVTripPlanner.com) a little.

 

[bollar]

Car & Driver hates Trip Planner

Or why Tesla just doesn't use Google for both the maps and the Nav directions.

This is why... Google maps don't work without GSM reception.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

I think it was pretty well handled. The issue was with what the nav was telling the reporter. On the return trip, he learned to ignore the nav and trust the state of the car's charge more.

 

[Drucifer]

In fact they took a problem that didn't exist in the first place, made it worse, and then built a whole PR campaign saying they'd fixed it.

The author has a great future in politics.

 

[BoldSharpe]

This is why... Google maps don't work without GSM reception.

I'd take full featured Google navigation that works only when I have GSM reception (which is likely over 99% of the time) over the current offering that works poorly 100% of the time. :wink:

 

[LetsGoFast]

Ah, is he referring to Virginia International Raceway? I get it now...but don't know if most people would know what the abbreviation stands for. I don't think he ever spelled out what VIR stands for...but maybe all C&D readers would know that already.

Yeah, most anyone who reads the mag is familiar with it. They do tests and events there very often, including their annual "Lightning Lap" shootout. Road and Track tests there too. Its kinda like calling Nürburgring "the ring." Car guys will know it right away. My Porsche club used to book track days there every year. Soooo much fun.

 

[Cottonwood]

I turned the new "Nav through Superchargers" mode off after a few tries. The functionality of this software is more like an "Alpha-Surprise" than Beta.

Tesla really should have this mode off by default (let the adventurous turn it on, and give it a try) until it works a lot better...

 

[RDoc]

I'd take full featured Google navigation that works only when I have GSM reception (which is likely over 99% of the time) over the current offering that works poorly 100% of the time. :wink:

Personally, I'd much rather EVTripPlanner that worked in the car (don't get me started on the car's alleged browser).