Car & Driver: The Mach E is simply better than the Model Y

[john5520]

- CoPilot360 works great and seems to be on par with regular "AutoPilot" (man, what a name).

Not really:

-
FordMME said:
- The "better nav suite" still isn't as good as Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. Suggesting that Tesla owners can easily have those things things by adding another tablet to the car is both humorous and somewhat telling.
- The Munro videos have been interesting, but the Mach E seems to be holding up great. Tesla probably shouldn't be critiquing build quality. As C&D and many many other publications have recognized, the MME's interior cabin feels much more refined, from the seats to the textures to the quiet.

Finally, I listed the compelling reasons to choose the Mach E over the MY in the first post, and there are many: The MME is a better value, better looking, better built, smoother driving, easier to operate, and quieter car.

-What's telling is Mach-e owners having to turn to CarPlay and Android Auto and other apps for reliable navigation. I've yet to have an issue with Tesla's nav that would force me to use another app. However, it's still good to have options. Not sure what's so humorous about using a tablet for AutoPilot or CarPlay.

-It's only been months since the Mach-e's release, way too early to judge long term reliability. Still, in the short term, many can't even use their phone as a key reliably, and end up at the dealer for updates that may or may not work. Or that works for a while or half-assed. Even Ford is a afraid to send these updates OTA
as promised. Probably the most dangerous issue reported so far is the car going in reverse, with the selector on D. No fix yet.

Tesla's build quality issues are mostly cosmetic which aren't difficult to fix after the fact. Meanwhile, the spaghetti of hoses and plastic in the Mach-e aren't.

-Most of those compelling reasons you mentioned are subjective except for the smoother driving and quieter car which to me aren't important as I'd rather the better handling and stiffer suspension of the Y. And road / wind noise aren't a bother. I can't see value in a vehicle like the Mach-e with so many unresolved issues. At least it's cheaper, it's got that going for it.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Not sure why I'm wading into this but, the Mach-E is certainly an acceptable vehicle for driving around town. Full stop.

 

[30seconds]

So C&D gets a used Model Y and compares it to a factory provided MME? 3.6 0-60 with a 0.94 skidpad vs. 4.9 0-60 with a 0.82 skidpad is supposed to be equivalent? I mean 0.82 is Toyota Camry territory, clearly a favorite for performance minded drivers.

MME seems like a decent around town BEV. But this is a pretty embarrassing review.

 

[Radish11]

Yeah in my opinion the Mach e is the best electric car out there dollar for dollar

 

[john5520]

They loved the model 3 but thought the center screen didn't work for the Y yet acknowledging they're basically the same vehicle. That tells you everything you need to know about the reviewer.

 

[alexgr]

I’m curious. Why do you call this guy a troll? .... everything else makes sense with out even having experience with the MME as a) Ford would obviously have better build quality as they have done this for decades (century) vs Tesla,

Ford, historically and demonstrably, is known for poor built quality that is not improving over the years. I don't find anything obvious in your assertion.

b) M3 is by far the loudest car I have ever owned . MY is much the same thus I can’t imagine the MME being louder (or any modern car for that matter) and

I said that MY is probably louder and that was the only true thing on the FordMME list. By the way, MY is quieter than 19 M3, and my M3 is okay (it's quieter than Nissan or Toyota I had)

c) while I like the supercharger network (never really use it though) the CCS network in the US will obviously pass it in the next couple of years as CCS IS THE STANDARD for L3. Period.

You are making many assertions and you are comparing wrong things. Tesla has CCS Superchargers in Europe, so it is NOT CCS vs Tesla.

 

[jjrandorin]

(personal opinion only)

I’m curious. Why do you call this guy a troll?

Maybe not "troll" but at the very least this particular poster looks like a ford shill. They are pretty clear about it, too, with the user name of "fordmme". Every post by this user is in this section, on this specific topic.

Kind of the definition of what (expert) trolling looks like, actually, yet people still engage. There isnt any real actionable content for a moderator, because its "just discussion" but if you look at the posts for this user, you will see there appears to be an agenda.

 

[electricjib]

Wow. Car & Driver did not mince words in this head to head matchup.

Comparison Test: 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E vs. 2020 Tesla Model Y

Tesla's Model Y butts heads with Ford's electric crossover.

www.caranddriver.com

The simple truth is that the MY came to market a year earlier, allowing Ford to take aim and level it. The MME is a better value, better looking, better built, smoother driving, easier to operate, and quieter car.

Really the only material reasons to buy a Y are if you like the Tesla software/minimalist ecosystem, you want to pay $10k to be a “full self driving” (it’s not, and it’s many years away, but it’s further along than Ford) guinea pig, or if you plan to road trip so much that need the superior convenience of the supercharger network (a gap that is closing thanks to all other mfgs adopting CCS).

This is the way of things. Competition continually improves. The Mach E wins this segment. We’ll see what the future holds.

How is it a better value? What do you get that makes it a better value? There is no entertainment, everything is laggy, more recalls, less space, not nearly as efficient... please explain.

Looks are based on opinion.

Completely disagree on the build. MME is still built on a frame that wasn't entirely designed for EV's. The Heatercore is a complete mess from a design and engineering perspective. It's built on random OEM parts, not built in house. I'm sorry but the Model Y is designed from the ground up and each part from engineering, safety, and design are all planned in a manner that works hand in hand. The Mach E is designed to make a profit and was built as fast as possible to get to market. You should also look up the COE figures...

I have a brand new MY and i'd pit it against the Mach E. The MME honestly just feels like a slow boat and in no way dynamic.

The menu's are far more difficult to navigate and the touch display is slow. You open your tesla door, push the brake, stock and go. MME is about 2-3 more steps but sure...

Quieter? Totally disagree. Ford added a "motor" sound to cover the road noise.

I hope both cars keep improving but I don't even have to read the rest of your post beyond your first 2 sentences. I really suggest you learn about how cars are built and engineering. Tesla's are something different. Ford's are OEM parts slapped onto a skateboard (that requires a WAY bigger battery pack to even come close to the range) but still isn't nearly as efficient.

 

[BooMan]

Ford, historically and demonstrably, is known for poor built quality that is not improving over the years. I don't find anything obvious in your assertion.


I said that MY is probably louder and that was the only true thing on the FordMME list. By the way, MY is quieter than 19 M3, and my M3 is okay (it's quieter than Nissan or Toyota I had)


You are making many assertions and you are comparing wrong things. Tesla has CCS Superchargers in Europe, so it is NOT CCS vs Tesla.

My statement on CCS vs Supercharger was in response to a previous post stating that SC was a plus for Tesla. My point was that in the US that advantage will clearly no longer be true as CCS is the standard all other manufacturers in the US will use. Thus my observation is clearly pertinent to this topic. Is that clear or should I elaborate further?

As far as quality I defer to your expertise but I would be shocked if I you provided relevant data that somehow listed Tesla vehicle quality even in the same league as the other top OEMs. What I have seen doesn’t support manufacturing quality being one of Tesla’s strong point but I will gladly defer to your data that shows otherwise. No dog in the fight just interested observer

 

[BooMan]

(personal opinion only)



Maybe not "troll" but at the very least this particular poster looks like a ford shill. They are pretty clear about it, too, with the user name of "fordmme". Every post by this user is in this section, on this specific topic.

Kind of the definition of what (expert) trolling looks like, actually, yet people still engage. There isnt any real actionable content for a moderator, because its "just discussion" but if you look at the posts for this user, you will see there appears to be an agenda.

Fair enough. I’m not as savey as some at picking out trolls vs those passing information/data, vs those that are just passionate and “loose” with facts

 

[BooMan]

And a 2020 Tesla that has spent a year driving on Detroit's notoriously bad roadways. The Michigan DOTs reputation for poor roadway maintenance is hard earned.

This man speaks truth about MI roads. They are hot garbage! 1 star. Would not recommend.

 

[ForDesign]

How much does Ford pay Car & Driver Magazine for advertising and how much does Tesla pay (hint: zero)? That might possibly slant their comparison.

This really all that matters in retrospect if anyone is really relying on an automotive magazine’s for an ‘expert opinion/evaluation’.

I know for a fact that editors of certain publications are told by their ad departments they simply cannot be negative about certain brands like Honda, as they spend too much on advertising revenue. C/D included. Ford is…a spender.

 

[john5520]

As far as quality I defer to your expertise but I would be shocked if I you provided relevant data that somehow listed Tesla vehicle quality even in the same league as the other top OEMs. What I have seen doesn’t support manufacturing quality being one of Tesla’s strong point but I will gladly defer to your data that shows otherwise. No dog in the fight just interested observer

U.S. Auto Warranty Metrics, 5 March 2020

www.warrantyweek.com

Rather than relying on bought and paid for mag ratings, I see more value in viewing actual warranty metrics.

 

[mk677]

I usually don't call people trolls, but you may change my take on it.

pot kettle black

 

[FordMME]

I’ll respond to some of the other stuff above as time permits. For now, let’s talk “trolling.” I don’t consider myself a troll by my definition. I’m not deliberately trying to provoke or annoy people.

As for a “Ford shill,” that might be closer to the mark, although unintentionally so. I bought a Mach E back in February and I generally love it (a few annoying software bugs aside). So that is probably causing me to “shill” a bit for the MME. Not for Ford in general, but they certainly hit this one out of the park.

I test drove both a MY and a MME before buying, and I made the right the decision. (No, I did not order a MME back in 2020 - I bought a cancelled order right off the lot in 2021). I’ve always tried to be objective and acknowledge the MY’s strengths, just as I’ve done in this thread and others. They’re just not compelling enough to choose the MY over the MME unless you have a very particular set of desires (detailed in first post).

I come over here because it’s interesting to hash this out with Tesla enthusiasts. (Tesla “shills” if you will). A lot of the stuff that’s been mentioned in this thread just isn’t accurate as I’ve demonstrated, and I’d hazard a guess that at least some of you have never even driven a MME.

I’m not trying to make this personal. As I said in the first post, this is the nature of competition. It’s continual improvement. Ford had the advantage of the MY coming to market first. Actually longer than that, since the MY is pretty close to a true crossover largely built on the M3 platform. But as a result, the MME is simply better in most regards. Something will come along in the next year or two to dethrone the MME, probably. It will be fun to see.

 

[Watts_Up]

Wow. Car & Driver did not mince words in this head to head matchup.
Tesla's Model Y butts heads with Ford's electric crossover.
The simple truth is that the MY came to market a year earlier...

The simple truth is that Ford pays tons of advertisements to news papers and TV ads,
while Tesla don't pay any advertisement... and buils superchargers instead.

 

[drtimhill]

The simple truth is that the MY came to market a year earlier, allowing Ford to take aim and level it. The MME is a better value, better looking, better built, smoother driving, easier to operate, and quieter car.

The simple truth is C&D makes boatloads of $$ from Ford advertising, and zero from Tesla.

For all I know the MME may indeed be a good (or even better car), but you wont be able to find that out by reading C&D.

 

[electricjib]

I’ll respond to some of the other stuff above as time permits. For now, let’s talk “trolling.” I don’t consider myself a troll by my definition. I’m not deliberately trying to provoke or annoy people.

As for a “Ford shill,” that might be closer to the mark, although unintentionally so. I bought a Mach E back in February and I generally love it (a few annoying software bugs aside). So that is probably causing me to “shill” a bit for the MME. Not for Ford in general, but they certainly hit this one out of the park.

I test drove both a MY and a MME before buying, and I made the right the decision. (No, I did not order a MME back in 2020 - I bought a cancelled order right off the lot in 2021). I’ve always tried to be objective and acknowledge the MY’s strengths, just as I’ve done in this thread and others. They’re just not compelling enough to choose the MY over the MME unless you have a very particular set of desires (detailed in first post).

I come over here because it’s interesting to hash this out with Tesla enthusiasts. (Tesla “shills” if you will). A lot of the stuff that’s been mentioned in this thread just isn’t accurate as I’ve demonstrated, and I’d hazard a guess that at least some of you have never even driven a MME.

I’m not trying to make this personal. As I said in the first post, this is the nature of competition. It’s continual improvement. Ford had the advantage of the MY coming to market first. Actually longer than that, since the MY is pretty close to a true crossover largely built on the M3 platform. But as a result, the MME is simply better in most regards. Something will come along in the next year or two to dethrone the MME, probably. It will be fun to see.

You're welcome to be a fan, and certainly welcome to your opinion. However IMO it comes off that rather than trying to have a real discussion about which car is better and engaging in a honest manner you're simply defending your purchase, and it seems a bit like you're even trying to sell yourself on this.

If you want to have a real honest conversation about the engineering, design, and the safety of both vehicles lets start chatting. However to this point you haven't done that. You're simply stating that the MME is a better car in every way which is like saying a Jeep has a better reliability and FCA rating than Toyota. Everyone in the auto industry flat out knows thats wrong. There can be features, and things in the car that you like better and most of those are personal opinions, looks, interior, handling etc.

You really need to dig beyond what ads and media outlets Ford pays for as your evidence...

 

[KG M3]

pot kettle black

Question: Are you referring to yourself and AlexGR here? Or yourself and FordMME?

 

[electricjib]

Not really:

-What's telling is Mach-e owners having to turn to CarPlay and Android Auto and other apps for reliable navigation. I've yet to have an issue with Tesla's nav that would force me to use another app. However, it's still good to have options. Not sure what's so humorous about using a tablet for AutoPilot or CarPlay.

-It's only been months since the Mach-e's release, way too early to judge long term reliability. Still, in the short term, many can't even use their phone as a key reliably, and end up at the dealer for updates that may or may not work. Or that works for a while or half-assed. Even Ford is a afraid to send these updates OTA
as promised. Probably the most dangerous issue reported so far is the car going in reverse, with the selector on D. No fix yet.

Tesla's build quality issues are mostly cosmetic which aren't difficult to fix after the fact. Meanwhile, the spaghetti of hoses and plastic in the Mach-e aren't.

-Most of those compelling reasons you mentioned are subjective except for the smoother driving and quieter car which to me aren't important as I'd rather the better handling and stiffer suspension of the Y. And road / wind noise aren't a bother. I can't see value in a vehicle like the Mach-e with so many unresolved issues. At least it's cheaper, it's got that going for it.

Thanks for sharing this video. I've had a similar experience testing the MME. I was shocked at the lack of safety warnings and awareness the car had. Sometimes Tesla's overdo it, but the MME has nothing.