Did you not read the second paragraph of what you quoted above? Weird, man. Just weird.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Car & Driver: The Mach E is simply better than the Model Y
- Thread starter FordMME
- Start date
Did you not read the second paragraph of what you quoted above? Weird, man. Just weird.
That’s an interesting point. But really, how does a computer graphic on a screen give you more peace of mind than your own view of the road? Putting any trust in a system beyond your own view of the road is risky - if anything relying upon a screen enhances that risk.
Oh and CP360 re-engaging is super convenient and super obvious. This seems like a real whiff by Tesla. It’s odd, really, for a company that’s generally so good at the user experience.
A de-trolling quiz.
Answer Yes or No to the following questions. For every Yes answer add 1, for every No answer - add nothing.
1) Is MME a better looking vehicle than the Model Y?
2) Does the MME have a better value than the Model Y?
3) Is the Mach-E a larger vehicle than the Model Y?
4) Is the Mach-E faster than the Y?
5) Does the Mach-E have a longer range than the Model Y?
6) Is the MME driving experience superior to the Model Y?
7) Does the Mach-E cost less than the Model Y?
8) Is CoPilot360 better than AutoPilot?
9) Is the Mach-E quality better than the quality of Tesla Model Y?
10) Do you believe that Mach-E owners are better people than Tesla owners?
If your score is 8 or more, you are a recognized troll on Ford's payroll. At 10, you are a Dark Troll.
If your score is 0 ... then you might be at risk of a Tesla fanboy/girl recognition.
Answer Yes or No to the following questions. For every Yes answer add 1, for every No answer - add nothing.
1) Is MME a better looking vehicle than the Model Y?
2) Does the MME have a better value than the Model Y?
3) Is the Mach-E a larger vehicle than the Model Y?
4) Is the Mach-E faster than the Y?
5) Does the Mach-E have a longer range than the Model Y?
6) Is the MME driving experience superior to the Model Y?
7) Does the Mach-E cost less than the Model Y?
8) Is CoPilot360 better than AutoPilot?
9) Is the Mach-E quality better than the quality of Tesla Model Y?
10) Do you believe that Mach-E owners are better people than Tesla owners?
If your score is 8 or more, you are a recognized troll on Ford's payroll. At 10, you are a Dark Troll.
If your score is 0 ... then you might be at risk of a Tesla fanboy/girl recognition.
so - each system has its issues. We’re in the infancy of automated driving. This happens with every new technology. Overpass shadows, phantom braking, not slowing down at off ramps all things that designers need to resolve.
Personally. I think Tesla’s automated driving is currently the best publicly available system.
Driving a Tesla for any length of time gets you used to looking at both and screen and road when using autopilot. As the car approaches traffic that requires it to react in some way like slow down, or deal with merging traffic etc, that visualization is nice to have. With FSD in the city, even more so.
As for Autopilot re-engaging after a lane change? I'm pretty sure they omitted that feature on purpose to push people toward FSD.
The thing I don’t like about what Elon is doing with Tesla is removing the center screen (behind the wheel). I prefer the “dash” screen of the X - much more so of the single screen on the 3 or Y. Having information in your field of vision is much easier to manage than information that you need to scan your peripheral range to get. Some stuff should be HUD.
But - I get what Elon’s trying to do. FSD means you really don’t need to worry (ultimately) about driving info. Let the car drive itself and just watch Netflix or play video games. Well - if the car was driving itself - I’d rather watch movies straight ahead . . . Much more than looking down and to the right or left.
Looking two places at once when your eyes will do just fine doesn’t seem like an aid - it seems like a distraction. Now, there are times when your eyes don’t see stuff - like how quickly you are approaching a stopped vehicle - but that’s where features like automatic collision avoidance are useful. In that case, the car applies the breaks automatically, so again, the screen illustration isn’t what’s helping you. Nobody has demonstrated how the screen graphics enhance safety in a way that exceeds the potential distraction of taking eyes off the road.
As for the AP limitations being used to encourage people to plop down ten grand more, maybe. But damn that’s kinda crappy.
As an owner of 2019 and 2020 M3SR+, a close relative recently bought an MME. He wanted a Tesla, but his wife said she would never drive it because she didn’t like the “computer screen” - she insists on a traditional instrument cluster behind the steering wheel. When the MME came out he saw an opportunity to get an EV that was more like a traditional ICE car, and he grabbed one - I think it was called a California Route 1 or something similar - it’s rear-drive with the extended range battery (88 KWh). His wife still hates it, but not as vehemently as the M3. We sat in both cars together about 2 weeks ago and compared the UIs. There was no arguing that Tesla’s was the hands-down winner in terms of organization, intuitiveness, and responsiveness (MME’s menus are a little sluggish). The MME’s menu system is not very pleasant to use, and it really hurts the user experience, though that can be fixed with software updates, and I hope they do fix it soon, because it was painfully awful.
Just a couple of days ago we went for a ride in the MME. We were on local roads with 40 - 45 mph speed limits and we got about 4.1 Wh/mi. My M3s get high 5‘s on those roads, so not even close, but the MY and M3LR are probably closer than that. The MME’s big battery makes up some of the difference, placing the MME pretty close to the MY’s range. The MME’s acceleration is not as snappy as the M3, but they are both faster than anyone really needs, so I consider that irrelevant.
The interior looked nicer/more luxurious than the M3’s, though the seats were not as comfortable, despite their appearance. It was definitely quieter inside, though my M3s don’t have the dual-layer, sound-deadening glass. One thing I noticed was the whine of the MME’s motor was a LOT louder than the M3‘s during driving. Maybe it’s because the reduced road noise accentuates the motor sounds.
The one major problem I have with the MME is the appearance, though that’s subjective and a matter of taste. I really don’t like the appearance. And it appears huge, despite actually having less cargo space than the MY. it seems the charging is a bit on the slow side, too - I think my relative said 125 KW for DCFC. With an 88 KWh battery to fill, that would be a bit time-consuming.
Putting aside issues of styling and the awful menu system, which could be fixed OTA, I’d say MME is a pretty good entry. I wouldn‘t buy one because of the styling and size, but it’s much closer to Tesla than I expected from Ford. Well played, Ford.
Just a couple of days ago we went for a ride in the MME. We were on local roads with 40 - 45 mph speed limits and we got about 4.1 Wh/mi. My M3s get high 5‘s on those roads, so not even close, but the MY and M3LR are probably closer than that. The MME’s big battery makes up some of the difference, placing the MME pretty close to the MY’s range. The MME’s acceleration is not as snappy as the M3, but they are both faster than anyone really needs, so I consider that irrelevant.
The interior looked nicer/more luxurious than the M3’s, though the seats were not as comfortable, despite their appearance. It was definitely quieter inside, though my M3s don’t have the dual-layer, sound-deadening glass. One thing I noticed was the whine of the MME’s motor was a LOT louder than the M3‘s during driving. Maybe it’s because the reduced road noise accentuates the motor sounds.
The one major problem I have with the MME is the appearance, though that’s subjective and a matter of taste. I really don’t like the appearance. And it appears huge, despite actually having less cargo space than the MY. it seems the charging is a bit on the slow side, too - I think my relative said 125 KW for DCFC. With an 88 KWh battery to fill, that would be a bit time-consuming.
Putting aside issues of styling and the awful menu system, which could be fixed OTA, I’d say MME is a pretty good entry. I wouldn‘t buy one because of the styling and size, but it’s much closer to Tesla than I expected from Ford. Well played, Ford.
It 'seems' like a distraction is a good way to put it. But it's no more a distraction than looking at a navigation map on the center screen. Do you stare at it to the point of running off the road or while you're making a left turn at a busy intersection? How distracted you are at the worst possible time is up to you. There are people that have crashed while changing the radio station.
Collision avoidance systems aren't very dependable. They may trigger too close to the obstacle, or worse, not at all. They're definitely nice to have, but shouldn't be depended upon. How useful the visualizations are is best demonstrated by the FSD videos on Youtube. If those don't convince you, well, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Regarding AP, it is crappy that they omitted that feature, however, is it a make or break? I think not. To me, CP360's lack of the safety features outlined in the video is worse.
Yeah to be clear, I don’t think the Tesla screen is a significant distraction. I just don’t think its rendering of things on the road is more beneficial than using your own eyes - certainly not beneficial enough to warrant taking your eyes off the road to look at what the car is seeing. Hope that makes more sense.
He/She is simply repeating Ford's PR talking points. I wonder when AI bot will be able to do it and mimic human conversation.
To the point, Tesla is NOT unique to having no instrument cluster behind the steering wheel. BMW Z8 and Toyota's Scion, Echo, Prius didn't have them. Prius still has no instrument panel in the direct line of view. It is a marketing strategy to use an unusual feature of competitor's product to declare product dangerous and scare consumers away from it towards your 'more traditional' product.
So just to be clear-
The MME has a laggy UX currently. With the absence of larger powertrain differences would you think interacting with UX would be important in context? Can you address the organization of menus within the Ford system?
So at present there are software issues along with promises of remote front trunk opening, along with sparse OTA updates and no ‘handsfree driving’ at the moment correct? So in historial context, if Teslas FSD isn’t ever going to happen even if it’s evolved since it’s inception, can you please explain to me why you keep stating that Ford is going to actually increase OTA updates and the like, if you are applying both ‘value systems’ when judging both product offerings? Hopefully you can see how that is confusing in context. I’m not disagreeing with you, I’d just like information, because as of today, there seems to be a lot more question marks in three currently unavailable features in the Ford.
I’ve logged over 12K miles using both AP, EAP, and Super cruise. Can you explain to me why having a hand on the steering wheel vs having to look at the road (EAP vs SC) is ‘better’ from a driver ergonomic POV? I again, would love your experience in why one is better vs another.
As the approach of Tesla is that it’s a tech company first, the mobile app has been pretty stable by all accounts. I’m not sure if this has any value to you, but it’s probably not hard to see other customers being drawn to it, correct?
The other part of your evaluation which is interesting is your observation regarding charging on the road-I’ll find out this week, but by even the biggest fans of this product there seems to be some very well documented problems with charging with public chargers. I’d love to see the data on assisted driving usage vs charging usage to get a handle on what a Consumer would have a preference for-true handsfree driving or a seemingly seamless charging experience outside of your home, but again I think we can agree that that would take a bit more than a magazine review and a few people on an Internet forum to determine.
In my previous career experience all differences in automobiles 98% under $140K have ‘minor’ ride/drive differences/annoyances, competitor vs. competitor due to the general Homogenization of the industry. It really boils down to personal preference/styling/ux differences for products to very subtle degrees, with exceptions (product age, more conceptual products etc).
But finally I really think these products shouldn’t be compared. Ford hasn’t rated the Mach-e for towing capacity? The MY has a capacity of 3,000lbs. I can think of 4 articles that C/D has mentioned a large towing capacity between ICE SUV products in a comparison. I think regardless of outcome, you have to see the issues in the methodology of this particular test, no?
Last edited:
Sorry, I don’t understand what you are asking.
I don’t think I said Ford was going to increase OTA updates? I actually pointed out that the lack of updates thus far is one of the things that has been frustrating. That’s one of THE biggest concerns for the MME going forward
Sure! This question I understand. There is no “versus.” You ALWAYS have to keep your eyes on the road regardless of hands on, hands free, etc. I initially thought that “hands free” wouldn’t add much enjoyment and relaxation since you’ve gotta keep watching the road anyway. I was wrong. CP360 allowing me to go hands free for brief periods does demonstrate to me how much more comfortable it is to not have to grip a steering wheel.
Yes, an app is important. Which is why I brought up FP for criticism. I’m thinking you might not have understood me. Maybe something getting lost in translation.
Those things don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
They are direct competitors. And come on, you surely know that the “towing capacity” is a total joke? You can toss a bike rack on the back of either, but it you want to add a camper get ready for massive range loss such as to make it a foolish enterprise. Which could be why C&D didn’t mention it. It is at best a marketing gimmick.
There is a feature that appears to be missing from the MME’s UI. My relative noticed that when I do AC charging, the Tesla displays volts and amps and allows you to throttle down the charging current. If you are having to plug into a wonky 120 socket and you’re afraid it’s not good for 80% of nominal, it does not appear there is a way to throttle charging current in the MME. Maybe I just missed it, but this looks to be missing.
As an example of its use: before I had my NEMA 14-50 installed I was using this old 120V socket on a 20-amp breaker in the garage and I was concerned that 30 years of temperature cycling could have loosened up the connections, so I didn’t want to pull the full 16 amps. I was able to set it to 8 amps to play it abundantly safe until I could shoot it with a thermal camera.
As an example of its use: before I had my NEMA 14-50 installed I was using this old 120V socket on a 20-amp breaker in the garage and I was concerned that 30 years of temperature cycling could have loosened up the connections, so I didn’t want to pull the full 16 amps. I was able to set it to 8 amps to play it abundantly safe until I could shoot it with a thermal camera.
Similar threads
