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Car & Driver: The Mach E is simply better than the Model Y

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Can I just say I really enjoy this thread? I love reading about EVs in general and comparison articles are my favorites. This thread, for the most part, is full of some really interesting tidbits and comparison between these two amazing EVs. Sure, there’s some unnecessary noise here and there, but I am enjoying following the insights and experiences from forum members in this thread.
 
There is a feature that appears to be missing from the MME’s UI. My relative noticed that when I do AC charging, the Tesla displays volts and amps and allows you to throttle down the charging current. If you are having to plug into a wonky 120 socket and you’re afraid it’s not good for 80% of nominal, it does not appear there is a way to throttle charging current in the MME. Maybe I just missed it, but this looks to be missing.

As an example of its use: before I had my NEMA 14-50 installed I was using this old 120V socket on a 20-amp breaker in the garage and I was concerned that 30 years of temperature cycling could have loosened up the connections, so I didn’t want to pull the full 16 amps. I was able to set it to 8 amps to play it abundantly safe until I could shoot it with a thermal camera.

The MME has no such capability. But really, that’s a pretty rare use case, IMO. More fundamentally, the MME doesn’t even show charging status on the infotainment screen while charging, which was a pretty dumb omission. Rumblings that this will be added “pretty soon” by OTA but nothing yet. I don’t think it’s a big deal, but it’s also a dumb omission.
 
He/She is simply repeating Ford's PR talking points. I wonder when AI bot will be able to do it and mimic human conversation.
To the point, Tesla is NOT unique to having no instrument cluster behind the steering wheel. BMW Z8 and Toyota's Scion, Echo, Prius didn't have them. Prius still has no instrument panel in the direct line of view. It is a marketing strategy to use an unusual feature of competitor's product to declare product dangerous and scare consumers away from it towards your 'more traditional' product.
Yeah, the screen in the center isn't the big deal it's being made out to be. And it surely isn't stopping these cars from selling like hotcakes.
Sure! This question I understand. There is no “versus.” You ALWAYS have to keep your eyes on the road regardless of hands on, hands free, etc. I initially thought that “hands free” wouldn’t add much enjoyment and relaxation since you’ve gotta keep watching the road anyway. I was wrong. CP360 allowing me to go hands free for brief periods does demonstrate to me how much more comfortable it is to not have to grip a steering wheel.
AP allows you to go hands off the wheel for quite a while too. But even if you choose not to, I see many drivers simply resting their hands on their lap or knee holding on to the wheel at 6'oclock. I've done it myself and it takes hardly any effort.
 
For me, the biggest thing is going to be the actual driving mileage. I drive about 250 miles a few times a week in Southern California. Summers get really hot (110 where I live) to decent (80 where I drive to) and winters tend to range from 45-60 where where I drive from/to. Because of traffic, GPS takes me through the mountains sometimes so it's not a flat drive. If neither one will reliably make it, I'm leaning toward the Model Y (charging stations near where I go) but I'm also considering the California Route 1 edition of the Mach E. I play a lot of sports so I'm wanting one of the SUV/crossovers instead of a sedan. Anyone have any suggestions/insights? From the videos, it sounds like the Mach E gets more range than the Y, but with the 80% charge, the uphill driving, and the AC/heat I'm guessing neither one will reliably make it there and back without at least a little bit of charging. Thanks for any input!
 
For me, the biggest thing is going to be the actual driving mileage. I drive about 250 miles a few times a week in Southern California. Summers get really hot (110 where I live) to decent (80 where I drive to) and winters tend to range from 45-60 where where I drive from/to. Because of traffic, GPS takes me through the mountains sometimes so it's not a flat drive. If neither one will reliably make it, I'm leaning toward the Model Y (charging stations near where I go) but I'm also considering the California Route 1 edition of the Mach E. I play a lot of sports so I'm wanting one of the SUV/crossovers instead of a sedan. Anyone have any suggestions/insights? From the videos, it sounds like the Mach E gets more range than the Y, but with the 80% charge, the uphill driving, and the AC/heat I'm guessing neither one will reliably make it there and back without at least a little bit of charging. Thanks for any input!
If you plan on plenty of regular travel get a Tesla. Period. Even if you find working chargers for the Mach-E, they will be slow and the Mach-E does not fast charge over 80%. Also, if you play sports and looking at an SUV, Model Y has a lot more space than the Mach-E. Buy the Mach-E if you hate Tesla and prepared to face technical issues and unqualified dealer's service departments.
 
For me, the biggest thing is going to be the actual driving mileage. I drive about 250 miles a few times a week in Southern California. Summers get really hot (110 where I live) to decent (80 where I drive to) and winters tend to range from 45-60 where where I drive from/to. Because of traffic, GPS takes me through the mountains sometimes so it's not a flat drive. If neither one will reliably make it, I'm leaning toward the Model Y (charging stations near where I go) but I'm also considering the California Route 1 edition of the Mach E. I play a lot of sports so I'm wanting one of the SUV/crossovers instead of a sedan. Anyone have any suggestions/insights? From the videos, it sounds like the Mach E gets more range than the Y, but with the 80% charge, the uphill driving, and the AC/heat I'm guessing neither one will reliably make it there and back without at least a little bit of charging. Thanks for any input!
I've got a brand new 2021 Model Y and i've gotten to Reno from Grass Valley and back on a 90% charge going from Highway 49/20 and then 80 with enough to spare. Thats a good range of climbing and temperature changes. With the hitch it's replaced our 4Runner for daily bike/outdoor trips. We also looked at the Mach E Rt 1. Personally it was my favorite of the Mach-E's. In the end the charging issues, lack of AWD, lack of a hitch, and a good amount less space than the Y was a huge determining factor. My wife is also pretty annoyed when tech isn't well thought out. Ease of use with supercharging and the simplicity of the UI helped.

My personal opinion is that the LR AWD we just got drives smoother than other Y's and 3's we've driven even up to a few months ago. Not sure if there was a change but its buttery smooth and maintains a good responsive feel.
 
My personal opinion is that the LR AWD we just got drives smoother than other Y's and 3's we've driven even up to a few months ago. Not sure if there was a change but its buttery smooth and maintains a good responsive feel.
I agree, I drive a M3 and when I test-drove the Y it felt like ... an SUV after a sport sedan. I think Tesla got it right, if you need an SUV then the MY will give you an SUV ride, if you want more road control feel then you get the M3. I think for utility and value, the Y is the winner.
 
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If you plan on plenty of regular travel get a Tesla. Period. Even if you find working chargers for the Mach-E, they will be slow and the Mach-E does not fast charge over 80%. Also, if you play sports and looking at an SUV, Model Y has a lot more space than the Mach-E. Buy the Mach-E if you hate Tesla and prepared to face technical issues and unqualified dealer's service departments.

I've got a brand new 2021 Model Y and i've gotten to Reno from Grass Valley and back on a 90% charge going from Highway 49/20 and then 80 with enough to spare. Thats a good range of climbing and temperature changes. With the hitch it's replaced our 4Runner for daily bike/outdoor trips. We also looked at the Mach E Rt 1. Personally it was my favorite of the Mach-E's. In the end the charging issues, lack of AWD, lack of a hitch, and a good amount less space than the Y was a huge determining factor. My wife is also pretty annoyed when tech isn't well thought out. Ease of use with supercharging and the simplicity of the UI helped.

My personal opinion is that the LR AWD we just got drives smoother than other Y's and 3's we've driven even up to a few months ago. Not sure if there was a change but its buttery smooth and maintains a good responsive feel.

Awesome, thanks! I put down my $100 on the MY a few months ago and I've been leaning that way. I was waiting for my bonus check this year to knock down more of the loan without dipping into savings, but I guess it takes a few months to get it so I'll probably release the hold soon.
 
Here's a great video that illustrates what owning a Mach-e right now is likely to involve. IMO, they rushed these things out too early. If you're willing to put up with this, then by all means pick one up. If not, I'd wait it out till these issues are resolved. Although not my cup of tea, it will be a decent vehicle if Ford actually fixes the software problems.

 
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It 'seems' like a distraction is a good way to put it. But it's no more a distraction than looking at a navigation map on the center screen. Do you stare at it to the point of running off the road or while you're making a left turn at a busy intersection? How distracted you are at the worst possible time is up to you. There are people that have crashed while changing the radio station.

Collision avoidance systems aren't very dependable. They may trigger too close to the obstacle, or worse, not at all. They're definitely nice to have, but shouldn't be depended upon. How useful the visualizations are is best demonstrated by the FSD videos on Youtube. If those don't convince you, well, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Regarding AP, it is crappy that they omitted that feature, however, is it a make or break? I think not. To me, CP360's lack of the safety features outlined in the video is worse.
After trying different cars, I would say that the Tesla visualisation is just too much that is not needed. Especially on the 3, where it is so low and too the side, one can't really use it. And rear incoming traffic show up on the screen way to late to be of value.
For hands off FSD eventually it is nice.

The VW ID.4 is adequate:
- lanes; white or green (locked on)
- Car in front grey or blue (locked on)
- Bike/semi/cyclist also shown instead of car (cool but not really useful)
- Cars in blind zone are warned about in the side mirrors when they are in the blind zone.

You also see lane lines in the AR hud and also a virtual line on the end of the car in front, changes color depending on whether that car decelerate.
 
For me, the biggest thing is going to be the actual driving mileage. I drive about 250 miles a few times a week in Southern California. Summers get really hot (110 where I live) to decent (80 where I drive to) and winters tend to range from 45-60 where where I drive from/to. Because of traffic, GPS takes me through the mountains sometimes so it's not a flat drive. If neither one will reliably make it, I'm leaning toward the Model Y (charging stations near where I go) but I'm also considering the California Route 1 edition of the Mach E. I play a lot of sports so I'm wanting one of the SUV/crossovers instead of a sedan. Anyone have any suggestions/insights? From the videos, it sounds like the Mach E gets more range than the Y, but with the 80% charge, the uphill driving, and the AC/heat I'm guessing neither one will reliably make it there and back without at least a little bit of charging. Thanks for any input!
Take a look at the Norwegian Automobile Association huge range test, 100%->stop summer and winter, but not much high speed; max speed is 90 km/h. The Ford does pretty well.

If you need a ski rack range drops. Not sure if those cars can have them.

 
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For me, the biggest thing is going to be the actual driving mileage. I drive about 250 miles a few times a week in Southern California. Summers get really hot (110 where I live) to decent (80 where I drive to) and winters tend to range from 45-60 where where I drive from/to. Because of traffic, GPS takes me through the mountains sometimes so it's not a flat drive. If neither one will reliably make it, I'm leaning toward the Model Y (charging stations near where I go) but I'm also considering the California Route 1 edition of the Mach E. I play a lot of sports so I'm wanting one of the SUV/crossovers instead of a sedan. Anyone have any suggestions/insights? From the videos, it sounds like the Mach E gets more range than the Y, but with the 80% charge, the uphill driving, and the AC/heat I'm guessing neither one will reliably make it there and back without at least a little bit of charging. Thanks for any input!
Is the 250 one way or RT? Assuming RT.

Yes, you’ll need some en route charging with either model, but you won’t need so much that the MME’s 80% charging cliff versus Tesla’s 90% will make a material difference. The number of (and popularity of - keep that in mind) DCFC along your route may make a difference.

The Tesla is generally going to be the better car for you if you plan to do a lot of road-tripping, generally but not always. But if you really plan to do a lot of road-tripping, EVs are not as convenient as ICEs, period, and don’t let any EV enthusiast try to convince you otherwise. Just want you to be aware.
 
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Here's a great video that illustrates what owning a Mach-e right now is likely to involve. IMO, they rushed these things out too early. If you're willing to put up with this, then by all means pick one up. If not, I'd wait it out till these issues are resolved. Although not my cup of tea, it will be a decent vehicle if Ford actually fixes the software problems.

Ugh ok let’s unpack this. Because this video does a great job of depicting some frustrations but is kind of a one-off in others.

First, PAAK works pretty well. Not as good as the fob and I can relate to some of their frustrations, but it is generally pretty reliable. I use it exclusively, and while there are occasionally delays where I have to wait a few seconds for my door to open, and I even had to enter my backup passcode twice in the last month, it works pretty well. Other posters have also observed that PAAK is improving quite a bit.

Second, the recall that isn’t really a recall PAAK field service recommendation is real. And their experience with a dealership not being prepared to install it is real. I got the same update notice, scheduled an appointment, and it was cancelled a day later by the dealership because they only have one guy who is certified to install those updates and he is on vacation. They recommended I wait for the update to be pushed OTA instead. They do not want to perform it. Now, I think the dealership in that video was feeding them bullshit about bricking the car - but otherwise I generally agree with the broader point that dealer servicing of the Mach E remains generally poor at this time. They don’t have enough trained service techs, and they just aren’t knowledgable enough about what Ford is doing. As a forum user, I typically know way more about issues than the service center does.

So bottom line, the frustrations in this video with Ford communication and service centers are very real, even if the particulars are probably too extreme. None of that is an excuse. But some of this is to be expected early on.
 
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For reference, my relative received his MME about a month or so ago and is having no problems with the PAAK feature. His charge door is not popping open, either, so I think they’ve at least made progress on those issues since the early deliveries. I think that at least shows that Ford is on top of things, though the dealerships may be lagging behind. GM took a pretty hard line with Cadillac dealerships a few months ago - they set an ultimatum of “Get ready or get out” and jettisoned dealerships that didn’t want to get with the program. Maybe Ford needs to get similarly tough with their dealership network. The electric F-150s are coming soon and they need to be ready.
 
For reference, my relative received his MME about a month or so ago and is having no problems with the PAAK feature. His charge door is not popping open, either, so I think they’ve at least made progress on those issues since the early deliveries.
I am really glad for your relative. Also, a vast majority of Tesla cars do not get spontaneously on fire, do not lose bumpers and roofs, but nevertheless the press, with support of Ford's execs, keep claiming that Tesla has huge reliability issues.
 
I think that at least shows that Ford is on top of things, though the dealerships may be lagging behind. GM took a pretty hard line with Cadillac dealerships a few months ago - they set an ultimatum of “Get ready or get out” and jettisoned dealerships that didn’t want to get with the program. Maybe Ford needs to get similarly tough with their dealership network. The electric F-150s are coming soon and they need to be ready.
Dealership model must go independent of EVs. Why do we even need dealerships now? Carmax, Carvana, Vroom, etc. should completely replace ugly used car dealerships. And many car manufacturers are looking at ways to dump the dealership model.
 
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Is the 250 one way or RT? Assuming RT.

Yes, you’ll need some en route charging with either model, but you won’t need so much that the MME’s 80% charging cliff versus Tesla’s 90% will make a material difference. The number of (and popularity of - keep that in mind) DCFC along your route may make a difference.

The Tesla is generally going to be the better car for you if you plan to do a lot of road-tripping, generally but not always. But if you really plan to do a lot of road-tripping, EVs are not as convenient as ICEs, period, and don’t let any EV enthusiast try to convince you otherwise. Just want you to be aware.
250 RT. If neither one will reliably make it, the Tesla is a better option because there is a Tesla super charger across the street from where I go. I don't road trip much, probably one or two a year (200+ miles one way). The big thing is how long EV engines last, I have 100k miles on my 4 year old car, and that was without driving much during quarantine. I end up spending about $600 a month in gas plus average about $50 in maintenance where a Tesla with incentives/trade in will be about $400 month in payments and probably minimal electricity charges (I have solar at home and produce more than double what I use in a day usually). I read that Tesla engines last 300k+ miles and have little to no maintenance so that's a huge plus for me. If the cost just breaks even, it will be worth the time saving of going to Costco 3-4 times a week plus doing maintenance almost every month.
 
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Ugh ok let’s unpack this. Because this video does a great job of depicting some frustrations but is kind of a one-off in others.

First, PAAK works pretty well. Not as good as the fob and I can relate to some of their frustrations, but it is generally pretty reliable. I use it exclusively, and while there are occasionally delays where I have to wait a few seconds for my door to open, and I even had to enter my backup passcode twice in the last month, it works pretty well. Other posters have also observed that PAAK is improving quite a bit.

Second, the recall that isn’t really a recall PAAK field service recommendation is real. And their experience with a dealership not being prepared to install it is real. I got the same update notice, scheduled an appointment, and it was cancelled a day later by the dealership because they only have one guy who is certified to install those updates and he is on vacation. They recommended I wait for the update to be pushed OTA instead. They do not want to perform it. Now, I think the dealership in that video was feeding them bullshit about bricking the car - but otherwise I generally agree with the broader point that dealer servicing of the Mach E remains generally poor at this time. They don’t have enough trained service techs, and they just aren’t knowledgable enough about what Ford is doing. As a forum user, I typically know way more about issues than the service center does.

So bottom line, the frustrations in this video with Ford communication and service centers are very real, even if the particulars are probably too extreme. None of that is an excuse. But some of this is to be expected early on.

I would be very surprised if these types of fixes make it into OTA updates anytime soon. From what I've gathered, Ford is still in learn-as-you-go mode, and the fact that dealers are taking hours to a day to do the updates speaks volumes. I don't see them taking a chance with possibly bricking cars.