Car features as a service

[WllXM]

I'm just trying to imagine an ICE analogy, where a manufacturer would find it simpler to fit V8s in all its cars, but would software-limit the 4 other cylinders shut, giving you a flat-4 unless you pay a subscription.... Wouldn't you find this ridiculous?

 

[DeejUK]

I am not buying (or renting) that this is the norm.

I don't really know whether it is or not, and I've not got any evidence either way.

I think it's more plausible when you start factoring in the cost of uncertainty. Let's take seats for example, and assume there are either heated or unheated seats.

The larger order you place with the supplier, the bigger discount you'll get. Presumably one large order gets more of a discount than two smaller orders. If you've only got one type of seat, there's only one contract to manage, half as much inventory management to do, no segregation in storage, no separate assembly line, and so on.

How do you decide how many customers will buy the heated version? Do you know ahead of time? What happens if you're wrong, and end up with a load of spare cars that no-one wants to buy? Presumably you'd have to discount them, which might cost more than the difference in seat price. Plus there's the logistics of reacting to the market, finding out your sales estimates were wrong, gearing up the sales and marketing teams to start discounting, whilst also prepping the PR team to placate all the people that paid full price just before the discount.

I can imagine that there' a lot of extra faff all the way down the supply chain... But then my optimist missus tells me I'm very good at spotting all the problems in advance

 

[speedyranger74]

Who care?
I will avoid them

 

[DeejUK]

I'm just trying to imagine an ICE analogy, where a manufacturer would find it simpler to fit V8s in all its cars, but would software-limit the 4 other cylinders shut, giving you a flat-4 unless you pay a subscription.... Wouldn't you find this ridiculous?

Intel used to do exactly this with chips. I've no idea how common it is now, but in the 90s when I was a kid building PCs, a 486 SX was exactly the same as a 486 DX chip, just with the floating-point unit disabled (which made it rubbish at 3D games - boo!). The same justifications were given - it cost more to have two separate manufacturing processes, and by offering the SX at a lower price point they could cater to business users who just wanted to run word processors.

 

[fancealot]

If it was just an 'unlock cost' fine, it's fair and simple, more cost effective for the company and means that the customer can unlock the added options down the line if needed which sometimes could help with buyers remorse - i've done it in the past leased a car with the middle option only 2 months down the line wanted the features of the top end model and having to wait for nearly three years to get the new model was painful!. My issue is with it being subscription based, why should you have to pay a monthly subscription to have heated seats or air con it's money grabbing pure and simple, some would say it could make the car cost cheaper - really with BMW?!? No they will keep the cars at the prices set now AND limit features for you to subscribe to.

Jeez if things keep going this way if you buy a BMW you won't be able to even drive it unless you pay for an engine starter subscription package, unlock door package, seatbelt package and airbag package!!

I'd never buy a BMW anyway but this is just bad form!

 

[WllXM]

Intel used to do exactly this with chips. I've no idea how common it is now, but in the 90s when I was a kid building PCs, a 486 SX was exactly the same as a 486 DX chip, just with the floating-point unit disabled (which made it rubbish at 3D games - boo!). The same justifications were given - it cost more to have two separate manufacturing processes, and by offering the SX at a lower price point they could cater to business users who just wanted to run word processors.

Yes but you're dealing with software processing, so I find this easier to admit than having a physical item you will simply disable.
To use your example of heated seats above, from an accounting perspective, the heating elements, extra wiring, electronics control each have a cost, which are definitely higher than a standard seat. These are sunken costs.
I find this infinitely more petty to disable them rather than say, Tesla EAP/FSD upgrade. The sensors are there but you are paying for the AI development that is still ongoing.

You've probably used that reasoning when downloading pirated software/films, but you wouldn't shoplift a boxed version...

 

[DeejUK]

My issue is with it being subscription based

Yeah, that's a fair point. Seems the whole world is moving that way now, because it's more reliable revenue, which in turn keeps investors happy.

you're dealing with software processing

I think the SX was physically disabled, with a pin missing. So it was a hardware thing.

You've probably used that reasoning when downloading pirated software/films, but you wouldn't shoplift a boxed version...

Ha Made me think of this:

 

[Dilly]

I think we have to realise that this is the future of software driven cars
I n the good old days, you bought a car, it was what it was and if you wanted any goodies that weren’t on it, you took a trip to Halfords or a car breakers. In the build process were stocks of all manner of different parts to cover models and trims.

Now you can build a car from the same set of components, thus reducing inventory, and charge to light up various on board “extras”.
As a business model, it makes complete sense.

It’s not that long ago that forum members were clamouring to know whether their SR had the heated rear seat hardware included.

Whether your view is that it’s right or wrong, it’s clearly going to be the future

 

[Mr H]

Makes no difference to me as i won't buy an ugly BMW anyway.

 

[WllXM]

The upside is probably that, like garages who do ECU remaps, it won't be long before some get specialised into car 'jailbreaking' so you can get all these pricey extras unlocked at once for a modest fee...

 

[DeejUK]

The upside is probably that, like garages who do ECU remaps, it won't be long before some get specialised into car 'jailbreaking' so you can get all these pricey extras unlocked at once for a modest fee...

I think there's a company in America that does this already, or at least I seem to recall reading about one on Electrek. TMC member @Ingineer does this sort of thing I believe, from a quick web search.

 

[Itidiot]

This product development feels like it originated from BMW Bank GmbH and not lead by BMW engineering. BMW need more of their 1990's engineering ethos.

BMW are fast becoming Nokia, can't help feel the brand still is needing a iconic electric flagship.

 

[Zilla91]

Don’t know why this has all of a sudden ended up on the news as Tesla and Audi have done this for years and it’s nothing new

 

[WllXM]

Don’t know why this has all of a sudden ended up on the news as Tesla and Audi have done this for years and it’s nothing new

Any example of a HARDWARE feature (drivetrain, cabin option) that is built in as standard but only enabled through software?
I am not talking of paying for connectivity, map upgrades, remote unlock, bar anything that’s infotainment related, but actual hardware features?

 

[SpareHeadOne]

Intel used to do exactly this with chips. I've no idea how common it is now, but in the 90s when I was a kid building PCs, a 486 SX was exactly the same as a 486 DX chip, just with the floating-point unit disabled (which made it rubbish at 3D games - boo!). The same justifications were given - it cost more to have two separate manufacturing processes, and by offering the SX at a lower price point they could cater to business users who just wanted to run word processors.

Not strictly true. Chips were (are) all manufactured as the top spec - in this case the 486 DX/66 - then once fabricated they went through a battery of tests.

Anything that passed all became a 486 DX/66, if the CPU passed and the FPU failed then it became a 486 SX, if the CPU failed but the FPU passed then it became a 487 (the add on FPU you could fit to some motherboards). The SX chips were tested for thermal tolerance and then sold as different speeds depending on how they did based on standard cooling - that's how we ended up with the overclocking scene, you can run a slower chip at a higher speed if you improve the cooling.

This kind of thing has been standard practice for years, wafers are basically a fixed cost to manufacture so you want the highest yield you can get.

 

[Nick77]

All sounds very reasonable, but you know the manufacturers won't reduce the price of the cars to buy. It'll just be an added cost on top of buying the car at full price.

Easy money making scam.

 

[Zilla91]

Any example of a HARDWARE feature (drivetrain, cabin option) that is built in as standard but only enabled through software?
I am not talking of paying for connectivity, map upgrades, remote unlock, bar anything that’s infotainment related, but actual hardware features?

What, like acceleration boost or the SR Model 3s where you could pay to unlock rear seat heating?

As for Audi you can pay for high beam assist

 

[doats1]

Any example of a HARDWARE feature (drivetrain, cabin option) that is built in as standard but only enabled through software?
I am not talking of paying for connectivity, map upgrades, remote unlock, bar anything that’s infotainment related, but actual hardware features?

In the SR+ plus you had to pay to activate rear heated seats and for a brief time the heated steering wheel (cabin).

You also have to pay for the acceleration boost (drivetrain).

 

[prabhu]

I don’t have a problem with this at all as most options seem to have a life time purchase option which isn’t astronomical and is on a par with what you might pay if you were spec’ing an option when buying new. No doubt some of those things will be included in certain models as part of the purchase price or have the first 3 years included like Map updates.

It’s also good that you can buy a used can and add features the first owner didn’t want.

Tesla do this, they’re introducing EAP and FSD as a subscription option and premium connectivity is already there.

We have to try and get away with thinking how things are priced and just think of the total price. Tesla charge thousands if you want a red car with a white interior, a BMW i4 50 gives you lots of colour options as part of the price, but then BMW charge you for adaptive cruise which Tesla give as standard - they’re all just permutations on a theme. And with more and more people leasing or PCP their cars, a monthly figure makes more sense than having to absorb the full cost of options into a 3 year lease which is often the case.

Sentiment on whether it’s a good or bad things often comes down to existing sentiment on the brand doing it.

Nothing is free in the Bimmer world even colours. i4 Drive 40 no longer supports the driver assistance package so only basic cruise control. You need to get the M50 for the privilege of ACC.

 

[prabhu]

What, like acceleration boost or the SR Model 3s where you could pay to unlock rear seat heating?

As for Audi you can pay for high beam assist

Or you use an obd dongle to code the upgrade in