Car manufacturers with worse service than Tesla

[meloccom]

Yet my late 2014 Model S with 160,000 Kms on the clock is running like a Swiss watch.
It has its original suspension, and only the drivers door handle has broken the once.
Its, had 2 new motors, the drive motor due to the noisy bearing issue and the screen washer motor was replaced early on too. The screen has been replaced once and been given a light bath once to remove yellowing, and they fixed a minor issue with the sunroof sometimes getting stuck as it opened.
For a 6 year old car it has very few rattles, most of which come from the front brake pads that I address when it’s in service by asking them the replace the copper grease.
It’s never once stopped due to a hardware fault, but it slowed down a trip to Melbourne once when it failed to Supercharge.
So not perfect but more problem free than many of the previous cars I have owned.

 

[David.85D]

Yet my late 2014 Model S with 160,000 Kms on the clock is running like a Swiss watch.
It has its original suspension, and only the drivers door handle has broken the once.
Its, had 2 new motors, the drive motor due to the noisy bearing issue and the screen washer motor was replaced early on too. The screen has been replaced once and been given a light bath once to remove yellowing, and they fixed a minor issue with the sunroof sometimes getting stuck as it opened.
For a 6 year old car it has very few rattles, most of which come from the front brake pads that I address when it’s in service by asking them the replace the copper grease.
It’s never once stopped due to a hardware fault, but it slowed down a trip to Melbourne once when it failed to Supercharge.
So not perfect but more problem free than many of the previous cars I have owned.

You must be an optimist. That’s a pretty long list of complaints for a car you said is running like a Swiss watch (the Swiss are offended by the comparison)!

Let me make a comparison. My wife drives a Toyota we bought new 11 years ago. At 9 years and 110,000 miles it needed a wheel bearing due to a noise I noticed that she didn’t. It has never broken down or delayed a trip.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

You must be an optimist. That’s a pretty long list of complaints for a car you said is running like a Swiss watch (the Swiss are offended by the comparison)!

Let me make a comparison. My wife drives a Toyota we bought new 11 years ago. At 9 years and 110,000 miles it needed a wheel bearing due to a noise I noticed that she didn’t. It has never broken down or delayed a trip.

I had a 2010 Toyota Prius. Sold 2018.
Not. One. Single. Fault.

 

[paulp]

You must be an optimist. That’s a pretty long list of complaints for a car you said is running like a Swiss watch (the Swiss are offended by the comparison)!

Let me make a comparison. My wife drives a Toyota we bought new 11 years ago. At 9 years and 110,000 miles it needed a wheel bearing due to a noise I noticed that she didn’t. It has never broken down or delayed a trip.

But does the said toyota have a big screen and not need visits to the servo? Given Mellocom has one of the first tesla in Australia, in what was very untried technology, it seems his car has stood up well.

 

[David.85D]

But does the said toyota have a big screen and not need visits to the servo? Given Mellocom has one of the first tesla in Australia, in what was very untried technology, it seems his car has stood up well.

fair enough. The minivan has needed roughly 28 oil changes (I do it at home, but let’s assume most don’t). I’m 100% sure my Tesla has had more service visits than that! And it’s half the age with less than half the miles.

however, the minivan is a pig sucking probably $30,000 of gasoline….

 

[Altes]

Agreed, and even SC's can change as great employees leave and new less so experienced staff start.....but I do think some SC's have a fundamental issue right through to the SC Manager.

Without a doubt, at the moment Tesla in Richmond Melbourne as the worst service experience I have ever had to deal with. Mulitple issues, back many times for the same issues....it feels like a broken down record.

Note:
The mobile service is excellent.

Yes, I think the issue issue the folks with customer car service backrounds realize its a total s--tshow when Tessla corporate doesnt stand behind their cars so they get out and you are left with those willing to toe the corporate line

 

[paulp]

fair enough. The minivan has needed roughly 28 oil changes (I do it at home, but let’s assume most don’t). I’m 100% sure my Tesla has had more service visits than that! And it’s half the age with less than half the miles.

however, the minivan is a pig sucking probably $30,000 of gasoline….

It would be interesting to try and work out why there is such a disparity between owners and service visits. My 85D occupied by garage for 3 years, and in that time chewed up a door handle....and recieved a visit for a seat belt bolt. The S85 however chewed up two door handles and lost its parrot (or something like that) which resulted in a big screen replacement. It was very early days so a tech was flown in....I collected him at the airport and he came to my home to do the repairs....we then had lunch down at the pub. Those were good tesla days.

 

[Tasdoc]

You must be an optimist. That’s a pretty long list of complaints for a car you said is running like a Swiss watch (the Swiss are offended by the comparison)!

Let me make a comparison. My wife drives a Toyota we bought new 11 years ago. At 9 years and 110,000 miles it needed a wheel bearing due to a noise I noticed that she didn’t. It has never broken down or delayed a trip.

Perhaps it's important to understand, that "fun" and "reliability" are kinda the opposite ends of the same spectrum. If you want to build a car that is fun to drive you have to add a bit of new, unproven stuff, otherwise you'd just end up with a reliable, but boring product. There are of course carmakers that have special ability to make cars that neither fun, nor reliable, but I cant's think of any cars that hit both targets

 

[Fairchild]

The max load on the Model Y is poor. No western levels of obesity required to ‘tip the scales’

Just the facts mate. Not opinion or speculation.

971 pounds of load passed the test.

971 pounds divided by four passengers = 242 pounds = FAT, obese, rotund

Your "fully grown men" must be overgrown if you are bottoming out.

 

[meloccom]

I’m comparing the reliability of my Tesla with the previous Mercedes which in 2012 with similar mileage I spent $2,500 on a new clutch, $1,500 on new power steering, $1,500 on front struts as one collapsed when I hit a pothole. Including servicing and tyres that year I spent $8,000 keeping it going until the Tesla arrived. Unfortunately it got hit by a texting teenager in late 2013 and all those new parts went to the breakers.

 

[David.85D]

It would be interesting to try and work out why there is such a disparity between owners and service visits. My 85D occupied by garage for 3 years, and in that time chewed up a door handle....and recieved a visit for a seat belt bolt. The S85 however chewed up two door handles and lost its parrot (or something like that) which resulted in a big screen replacement. It was very early days so a tech was flown in....I collected him at the airport and he came to my home to do the repairs....we then had lunch down at the pub. Those were good tesla days.

I can answer this pretty easily: short sighted cost cutting. Inexperienced staff. Poorly trained staff. Arbitrary rules about what/when things get fixed.

(On an aside, my kids now make a scavenger hunt of the car when we get the car back. We’ve found a Tesla employee hat, a snap on tool, a Milwaukee m12 tool, unused new parts, used nuts/bolts. Very unprofessional. Competent mechanics don’t leave tools and parts behind…)

My MCU1 failures, MCU2 upgrade, and subsequent rework of the poorly installed MCU2 was 7-8 visits over a year. Should have been resolved in 1!

front half shaft vibration - axles were replaced three times (over three visits) before it was correct. One visit included replacing the front motor they damaged in the process.

charging port - two visits to get it right

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Just the facts mate. Not opinion or speculation.

971 pounds of load passed the test.

971 pounds divided by four passengers = 242 pounds = FAT, obese, rotund

Your "fully grown men" must be overgrown if you are bottoming out.

The Model Y payload is 886 pounds
= 4 adults at 221 lbs (100kg) or 5 adults at 177 lbs (80kg) or 7 adults for the 7 seater at 126 lbs (58kg), with no luggage whatsoever. Nothing obese there, but *maybe* some powerlifters/bodybuilders in the first instance.
Not only is the payload less than the Model 3, but less than competitors in the crossover segment, a segment which is expected to carry greater weight

 

[paulp]

I can answer this pretty easily: short sighted cost cutting. Inexperienced staff. Poorly trained staff. Arbitrary rules about what/when things get fixed.

(On an aside, my kids now make a scavenger hunt of the car when we get the car back. We’ve found a Tesla employee hat, a snap on tool, a Milwaukee m12 tool, unused new parts, used nuts/bolts. Very unprofessional. Competent mechanics don’t leave tools and parts behind…)

My MCU1 failures, MCU2 upgrade, and subsequent rework of the poorly installed MCU2 was 7-8 visits over a year. Should have been resolved in 1!

front half shaft vibration - axles were replaced three times (over three visits) before it was correct. One visit included replacing the front motor they damaged in the process.

charging port - two visits to get it right

Sounds to me like your american mechanics need some training from the Australians

 

[Fairchild]

The Model Y payload is 886 pounds
= 4 adults at 221 lbs (100kg) or 5 adults at 177 lbs (80kg) or 7 adults for the 7 seater at 126 lbs (58kg), with no luggage whatsoever. Nothing obese there, but *maybe* some powerlifters/bodybuilders in the first instance.
Not only is the payload less than the Model 3, but less than competitors in the crossover segment, a segment which is expected to carry greater weight

Nuke. Rated vs. actual. Big difference. Just because your tires are rated at 150 mph, doesn't imply you drive 150 mph.
If you want to tow 14,000 lbs, get a CYBTRK or if you want greater hauling capacity get a Model X (1,254 lbs).
BTW the 2021 Model 3 payload capacity is 822 lbs. Just the facts.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Nuke. Rated vs. actual. Big difference. Just because your tires are rated at 150 mph, doesn't imply you drive 150 mph.
If you want to tow 14,000 lbs, get a CYBTRK or if you want greater hauling capacity get a Model X (1,254 lbs).
BTW the 2021 Model 3 payload capacity is 822 lbs. Just the facts.

That’s a significant drop for the M3. Fact

 

[Fairchild]

Hey, Nuke, just pullin' your chain. For the price of a Mercedes EQS, I can have two Model Ys and haul 8 - 10 people.
Twins.

 

[meloccom]

Conversation about the carrying capacity of the Model Y/3 is a long way from the topic of this thread.
The purpose of TMC is to discuss all things Tesla, it’s not a place to score points against other members or pull anyone’s chain.

 

[Fairchild]

As anyone who owns an automobile with hundreds of moving and interacting parts knows, there will be problems with assembly, design, operation, and wear and tear from time to time. Some vehicles are clearly engineered better than others (I don't have fond memories of my new Corvette spending one month of the first three months in the shop for defective design or workmanship). Sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes not. By definition, a Tesla with fewer moving parts (no oil, no belts, no timing chain, no exhaust, etc) should have fewer maintenance issues than an ICE vehicle. And yes, if you've been to one Tesla service center, you've been to one Tesla service center. They are going to vary. We have been blessed with an outstanding one in Orlando.

Are there going to be service center and maintenance issues in a car as advanced as a Tesla? Of course, And there are going to be terrifying anecdotal tales of tragedy with regard to service experiences (like a Chinese woman jumping up and down on the top of a Telsa.) Yes, You can expect that too. Is the media going to focus on these individual tales? Of course. Why? For one, it makes new and Tesla is the new kid on the block. People are naturally resistant to change and particularly change that eliminates the vehicle they know. Tesla's leadership in the market and popularity is also to blame. If you have ever played king of the mountain when you were a kid, you know what to expect when you get to the top.

Are these complaints genuine? Of course, they are. Do they exceed the complaints about other car manufacturers? I think not.
That's why anecdotes are interesting and data is so important. Take for example vehicle fires. From 2012 – 2019, there has been approximately one Tesla vehicle fire for every 175 million miles traveled. By comparison, data from the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) and U.S. Department of Transportation shows that in the United States there is a vehicle fire for every 19 million miles traveled. Do you even hear about other vehicle fires in the news?? If anyone asked you what kind of car is known for vehicle fires, what would you say? Be honest.

For the public auto safety and maintenance fears fuel an anti-Tesla bias and particularly when giving up control to an automated system. I have a friend who plunked down $10k for FSD and hasn't turned it on in a year out of fear from the news stories. Take for example the fire in Texas. Everybody was reporting that there was no driver in the front seat. Now it becomes evident per Musk's data analysis that autopilot wasn't even engaged. Did the Chevy Bold that ran into a tree and killed all occupants on the same night even get a newsline. Not. Anecdotal information is just that. Anecdotal. Look at the TESLA data.

• 1 accident every 4.53 million miles when Autopilot engaged
• 1 accident every 2.27 million miles when Autopilot not engaged but active safety features active
• 1 accident every 1.56 million miles without Autopilot and without active safety features
• 1 accident every 479,000 miles — US average

Do other car companies even keep track or have the capability to keep track?

So how does that relate to maintenance? To my knowledge, we don't currently have data that shows maintenance figures. But I do know that Tesla is open to accept consumer criticism and not wait for another model year to make corrections. I cite for example noise in the Model Y resulted in the only double-pane insulated window I know of in an American car, the addition of hangers for clothes, upgrading heating and cooling systems, heated steering wheels, improved center console just to name a few. And look at the improvement in body panels since the media has focused on them. I'd say that with their massive year-to-year growth they have jumped through the hoops to make overall improvements. And when I told them about some sharp edges on the doors that cut my fingers, they were totally interested. And that doesn't make me a Tesla fanboy. It simply up sums my experience with five Teslas, my limited service issues over the years, and data I have gleaned from other Tesla owners. It in no way denies that others have issues. Hopefully, comments on forums like these will be noted and maintenance improvements are on the way.

Sorry for being so long-winded, but what I truly detest is trolls, (many who have never driven a Tesla, yet alone owned one) who come on the forum and spew information as if it is fact simply to "pile on" to media misrepresentation and denigrate the brand. I welcome seeing valid concerns about real experiences. I believe it is the responsibility of both the moderators and participants in the forum to not let misinformation stand, especially when it is coming from someone who heard that their brother-in-law who rode in a Tesla once got sick or bottomed out ?!??

Courtesy of Brooks, at Drag Times, I raced my Model X (Raven) at the Palm Beach International Raceway and on my first quarter-mile run set the World Record for the Quickest SUV, burying a Lambo Urus. I espouse the moto on the back of his Drag Times shirt.

If you have personal experiences and factual data to share, good on ya. If not, well, read my shirt.

 

[paulp]

As anyone who owns an automobile with hundreds of moving and interacting parts knows, there will be problems with assembly, design, operation, and wear and tear from time to time. Some vehicles are clearly engineered better than others (I don't have fond memories of my new Corvette spending one month of the first three months in the shop for defective design or workmanship). Sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes not. By definition, a Tesla with fewer moving parts (no oil, no belts, no timing chain, no exhaust, etc) should have fewer maintenance issues than an ICE vehicle. And yes, if you've been to one Tesla service center, you've been to one Tesla service center. They are going to vary. We have been blessed with an outstanding one in Orlando.

Are there going to be service center and maintenance issues in a car as advanced as a Tesla? Of course, And there are going to be terrifying anecdotal tales of tragedy with regard to service experiences (like a Chinese woman jumping up and down on the top of a Telsa.) Yes, You can expect that too. Is the media going to focus on these individual tales? Of course. Why? For one, it makes new and Tesla is the new kid on the block. People are naturally resistant to change and particularly change that eliminates the vehicle they know. Tesla's leadership in the market and popularity is also to blame. If you have ever played king of the mountain when you were a kid, you know what to expect when you get to the top.

Are these complaints genuine? Of course, they are. Do they exceed the complaints about other car manufacturers? I think not.
That's why anecdotes are interesting and data is so important. Take for example vehicle fires. From 2012 – 2019, there has been approximately one Tesla vehicle fire for every 175 million miles traveled. By comparison, data from the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) and U.S. Department of Transportation shows that in the United States there is a vehicle fire for every 19 million miles traveled. Do you even hear about other vehicle fires in the news?? If anyone asked you what kind of car is known for vehicle fires, what would you say? Be honest.

For the public auto safety and maintenance fears fuel an anti-Tesla bias and particularly when giving up control to an automated system. I have a friend who plunked down $10k for FSD and hasn't turned it on in a year out of fear from the news stories. Take for example the fire in Texas. Everybody was reporting that there was no driver in the front seat. Now it becomes evident per Musk's data analysis that autopilot wasn't even engaged. Did the Chevy Bold that ran into a tree and killed all occupants on the same night even get a newsline. Not. Anecdotal information is just that. Anecdotal. Look at the TESLA data.

• 1 accident every 4.53 million miles when Autopilot engaged
• 1 accident every 2.27 million miles when Autopilot not engaged but active safety features active
• 1 accident every 1.56 million miles without Autopilot and without active safety features
• 1 accident every 479,000 miles — US average

Do other car companies even keep track or have the capability to keep track?

So how does that relate to maintenance? To my knowledge, we don't currently have data that shows maintenance figures. But I do know that Tesla is open to accept consumer criticism and not wait for another model year to make corrections. I cite for example noise in the Model Y resulted in the only double-pane insulated window I know of in an American car, the addition of hangers for clothes, upgrading heating and cooling systems, heated steering wheels, improved center console just to name a few. And look at the improvement in body panels since the media has focused on them. I'd say that with their massive year-to-year growth they have jumped through the hoops to make overall improvements. And when I told them about some sharp edges on the doors that cut my fingers, they were totally interested. And that doesn't make me a Tesla fanboy. It simply up sums my experience with five Teslas, my limited service issues over the years, and data I have gleaned from other Tesla owners. It in no way denies that others have issues. Hopefully, comments on forums like these will be noted and maintenance improvements are on the way.

Sorry for being so long-winded, but what I truly detest is trolls, (many who have never driven a Tesla, yet alone owned one) who come on the forum and spew information as if it is fact simply to "pile on" to media misrepresentation and denigrate the brand. I welcome seeing valid concerns about real experiences. I believe it is the responsibility of both the moderators and participants in the forum to not let misinformation stand, especially when it is coming from someone who heard that their brother-in-law who rode in a Tesla once got sick or bottomed out ?!??

Courtesy of Brooks, at Drag Times, I raced my Model X (Raven) at the Palm Beach International Raceway and on my first quarter-mile run set the World Record for the Quickest SUV, burying a Lambo Urus. I espouse the moto on the back of his Drag Times shirt.

If you have personal experiences and factual data to share, good on ya. If not, well, read my shirt.

Those on this thread that have commented about negative experiences all own a tesla and are regular contributor. I would not describe them as trolls. It’s ok to point out problems with tesla. It doesnt make you a hater, nor does it mean you dislike your car.
I’ve never had reason to complain about tesla service.

 

[Vostok]

Sorry for being so long-winded, but what I truly detest is trolls, (many who have never driven a Tesla, yet alone owned one) who come on the forum and spew information as if it is fact simply to "pile on" to media misrepresentation and denigrate the brand.

What disappoints me, and ultimately saw me leave the Tesla company forums (now closed down) was the knee-jerk flame-fest reaction to any post even mildly critical of Tesla. As soon as anyone did that, the Tesla Defenders would pile on, and immediately label you a paid shill, a troll, a hater, a short. It was predictable, petty and tiresome. As well as not addressing the point or concern of the poster, or quietly seeking additional information, context or verification.

It was rife on the Tesla forums, chronic on Telsarati, and almost as bad on Electrek. Is every complaint valid or warranted? Not necessarily. Does it matter? I don’t really think so. I mostly found respectful debate here which is where I settled. As soon as playing the man and not the ball becomes a forum‘s automatic “go to”, it’s time to leave.

The other thing that annoyed me on the Tesla forum was they way that any non-Tesla EV was mercilessly mocked, labelled a compliance car (whatever that is), a golf cart, a city car (as if that’s an inherently bad thing...) or was part of a grand conspiracy - a Machiavellian plot to create ‘rubbish’ EVs in order to so utterly poison the well for EVs in the mind of the consumer that they would be killed off forever. Yes, some people genuinely believed that was ’the’ plan.

So someone deciding to buy a LEAF or an Ioniq or an ID-3 was making an illegitimate and invalid decision, because in the mind of the Tesla forum warriors, no-one could ever genuinely and independently arrive at such a purchasing decision without being duped, manipulated, or lied to. Such people were part of the problem, not part of the solution. And the warriors could not see their stance as actually being against Elon Musk because Tesla cannot do this by itself - all automakers need to accelerate the transition to sustainable transportation.

The fact that this ‘plan’ (if it was the ‘plan’) was failing on every level didn’t matter. Why let facts get in the way. Particularly in Europe, where legacy auto EV sales continue to grow and grow strongly, taking market share from Tesla. So if legacy auto are trying to kill off EVs, they’re doing a spectacularly bad job in achieving their objective, and burning billions doing it.