"Car May Not Restart" service message, no kidding

[ceekz]

I left my Model 3 in the garage last week for 5 days. Mostly fully charged so I did not plug it in. I checked my app and found a software update notification and was able to update my car from another country, how cool was that? But what I didn't like was seeing the range dropping by a significant rate, maybe 15-20 miles in a day. Sentry Mode was not enabled.

Arrived home around 10 PM last night and ran an errand, and when I parked, this message popped up "Car needs service. Car may not restart." Tesla was not kidding - the car would not switch into D or R, even after a hard reboot or recommended Power Off. The only recourse was to request a tow to the Service Center. Within the next 8 hours, the car had completely drained the 12v high-voltage battery, which then required a jump start to move the car on and off the flatbed.

The tech service person who answered the call said it was either a sensor malfunction, or the battery pack triggered an alert that caused the car to shut down as a safety measure. The service center rep said the phone techs are clueless most of the time and not to believe anything they say. At any rate, Tesla is replacing the battery pack as a precaution. He said they use the removed pack for research and testing to try to determine why it malfunctioned. One other interesting thing was they parked the car in the farthest area of the lot, just in case...

Anyone else experience this problem? I have 6500 miles on my LR-D. (And yes, they are going to rotate the tires while it is in the shop as a courtesy.)

 

[SoccerMan94043]

I left my Model 3 in the garage last week for 5 days. Mostly fully charged so I did not plug it in. I checked my app and found a software update notification and was able to update my car from another country, how cool was that? But what I didn't like was seeing the range dropping by a significant rate, maybe 15-20 miles in a day. Sentry Mode was not enabled.

Arrived home around 10 PM last night and ran an errand, and when I parked, this message popped up "Car needs service. Car may not restart." Tesla was not kidding - the car would not switch into D or R, even after a hard reboot or recommended Power Off. The only recourse was to request a tow to the Service Center. Within the next 8 hours, the car had completely drained the 12v high-voltage battery, which then required a jump start to move the car on and off the flatbed.

The tech service person who answered the call said it was either a sensor malfunction, or the battery pack triggered an alert that caused the car to shut down as a safety measure. The service center rep said the phone techs are clueless most of the time and not to believe anything they say. At any rate, Tesla is replacing the battery pack as a precaution. He said they use the removed pack for research and testing to try to determine why it malfunctioned. One other interesting thing was they parked the car in the farthest area of the lot, just in case...

Anyone else experience this problem? I have 6500 miles on my LR-D. (And yes, they are going to rotate the tires while it is in the shop as a courtesy.)

I had a similar problem with my Model S in the past... see below for details. It turned out to be some of the high capacity wiring that I think places the same role as an alternator in a combustion engine (I'm not a mechanic and have no idea what I'm talking about).

I had a series of similar messages.

I would get to the car in the morning and get the message then it would go away. Tried hard reset, came back a few days later and took it to ta service center to be looked at. They, presumably, checked the error messages and said not to worry and ignore it. The next day I got the same message in the morning and when I returned to the car in the evening, it wouldn't start.

Had it towed from the third floor (tow truck could barely fit... they had to bring a special small one) to the same service center (Palo Alto, CA) and had to wait 5 days to even have it diagnosed (they need to hook it up onto a simulator and there were several cars ahead of mine). Turned out to be one of the high capacity wires failing and not recharging the 12v battery (I guess it's the EV equivalent to an alternator).

It took another two weeks to get the part and they replaced the battery as well, under warranty (2016 car). I'm not happy that I had brought it in and they sent me back on the road. I'm also no happy on how long a fairly simple repair took. It has been working well since however (happened in March).

This is the service invoice info:

Concern: Around 7:30 AM & 4:00PM 3/1 & 3/2 "Car needs service. Car may not restart"
Alert started appearing, other than the alert, vehicle was not exhibiting any other symptoms.
3/2 around 11am screen rebooted by itself while he was getting into the vehicle. 12v battery
needs to be replaced alert appeared also appeared shortly thereafter. 3/5 Vehicle would not
go into gear, alerts appeared. "12v battery needs service alert" & "car needs service may not
restart"
Cause: Multiple HV external isolation faults found in logs. (SEE CAUSE NARRATIVE)
Repair Plan: Perform dummy plug isolation test to determine source of isolation. Repair as
needed.

Pay Type: Warranty
Corrections: Battery - Auxiliary - 12V - 1st Generation (Dual Motor)
Confirmed concern.
Performed diagnostic on all HV components and HV harnesses.
Confirmed HV harness is causing alert.
Replaced HV harness and 12v. battery.
Performed extended road test and confirmed no alerts present and proper operation at this
time.

Part Quantity
Battery, 12V, DCS33-UNCR, MS (1083774-
00-A)

1
HV HARN,FJB-FDU,MS2 (1055875-10-E)

 

[ewoodrick]

When parked for a long time and not plugged in, it is definitely advised to NOT talk to the car. Let it sleep. Updating was definitely not the best option.

Also, check for any parking options with 120V plugs that you can use. That's all you need for a 5 day trip and will even completely charge the car. There are sometimes hotels in the area that might be options as well.

How much charge did you have when you left?
Also, depending on the update, did you have anything plugged into the 12V system? A recent updated changed it so that the 12V stays on all the time. A camera could have been enough to kill it. And then just normal usage, possibly headlights took it too low before it could charge.

Or it all may just be a coincidence with some other failure.

 

[boaterva]

Definitely turn off TeslaFi and the like when going away if not plugged in but loading software on a fully charged car should not use up any appreciable amount of power. It just reboots once.

Makes little sense that it failed at that time except coincidence. I still don’t do software loads except when home and I can touch the car if needed.

Glad they got it sorted and if they let you know what happened, fill us in!

 

[ngogas]

Dang battery pack.

 

[jkoya]

Tesla is replacing the battery pack as a precaution.

Glad you are getting a new battery pack. Did they estimate how long you will have to wait until you get your car back ?

 

[SMAlset]

....A recent updated changed it so that the 12V stays on all the time. A camera could have been enough to kill it. And then just normal usage, possibly headlights took it too low before it could charge....

You know I've been using TeslaCam and now Sentry mode for a little while now. I know you presently have to toggle Sentry Mode on and off (default off). Also remember reading that the 12v stays on all the time so TeslaCam is on 24/7. Is there a way right now to turn it off?

 

[ckoval7]

I had the same thing happen to my MS. I was about by go out one morning, and got that error. I contacted Tesla and they scheduled a tow truck without hesitation. It took them about a week to get a new battery pack. The techs at the service center said it was a sensor failure.

 

[Matt L]

I left my Model 3 in the garage last week for 5 days. Mostly fully charged so I did not plug it in. I checked my app and found a software update notification and was able to update my car from another country, how cool was that? But what I didn't like was seeing the range dropping by a significant rate, maybe 15-20 miles in a day. Sentry Mode was not enabled.

Arrived home around 10 PM last night and ran an errand, and when I parked, this message popped up "Car needs service. Car may not restart." Tesla was not kidding - the car would not switch into D or R, even after a hard reboot or recommended Power Off. The only recourse was to request a tow to the Service Center. Within the next 8 hours, the car had completely drained the 12v high-voltage battery, which then required a jump start to move the car on and off the flatbed.

The tech service person who answered the call said it was either a sensor malfunction, or the battery pack triggered an alert that caused the car to shut down as a safety measure. The service center rep said the phone techs are clueless most of the time and not to believe anything they say. At any rate, Tesla is replacing the battery pack as a precaution. He said they use the removed pack for research and testing to try to determine why it malfunctioned. One other interesting thing was they parked the car in the farthest area of the lot, just in case...

Anyone else experience this problem? I have 6500 miles on my LR-D. (And yes, they are going to rotate the tires while it is in the shop as a courtesy.)

Why not leave it plugged in?

I was gone for 10 weeks. Left the car plugged in...no issues.

 

[RayK]

You know I've been using TeslaCam and now Sentry mode for a little while now. I know you presently have to toggle Sentry Mode on and off (default off). Also remember reading that the 12v stays on all the time so TeslaCam is on 24/7. Is there a way right now to turn it off?

I don't use Sentry Mode all that much yet but I have noticed that the USB ports mostly stay on when the car is supposed to be sleeping (i.e., locked). I have a ROAV dashcam plugged into one of the front ports. When I was on software before 2019.5.15, the dashcam would turn on when I got in the car and turn off when I got out and locked it. Now I'm on 2019.8.5 and my cam does not shut off right away most of the time. Sometimes it will run for 20 minutes; other times, several hours. In fact, I just found out tonight that if I use my phone app and query the car (waking it up), the USB power must come on since I've got video clips that start exactly at the same time. I don't remember this happening on older software but it may have. I may have to experiment with the rear USB ports and see if they power up/down the same.

 

[boaterva]

Why not leave it plugged in?

I was gone for 10 weeks. Left the car plugged in...no issues.

I didn’t catch it was a home garage, I assume. It really should be plugged it all the time. ‘A plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla.’ Ours are plugged in to our twin HPWCs 24/7 when home and if possible that’s the best bet to allow the BMS to take care of the battery.

 

[mike123abc]

My 12v battery failed even when plugged in. The car regularly charges the 12v battery off the main battery/wall plug.

The first time it failed it was plugged in, I jumpped it and then it worked. I was gone almost a month and thought it was odd that the 12v battery went down during that time.

I was able to drive it for a few days before it failed again away from home. I had to jump start the 12v battery to get the main battery to engage to get it home to wait on the rangers. The ranger switched it out and it has been working OK since.

 

[ceekz]

When parked for a long time and not plugged in, it is definitely advised to NOT talk to the car. Let it sleep. Updating was definitely not the best option.

Also, check for any parking options with 120V plugs that you can use. That's all you need for a 5 day trip and will even completely charge the car. There are sometimes hotels in the area that might be options as well.

How much charge did you have when you left?
Also, depending on the update, did you have anything plugged into the 12V system? A recent updated changed it so that the 12V stays on all the time. A camera could have been enough to kill it. And then just normal usage, possibly headlights took it too low before it could charge.

Or it all may just be a coincidence with some other failure.

I had about 180 miles of range when I left, around 137 when I returned. The drain was definitely related to the battery pack/sensor issue, not normal for even overnight in the garage. My thought about not plugging it in was along the lines of the old school way of thinking to not leave a phone on the charger, or a toaster plugged in unless it is necessary. I realize I need to update the practice to the recommended process! Who knows what could have happened, though, if it was an actual battery pack failure. The fact the service center parked the car as far away as possible from the building was a little alarming.

According to the service technician, the software update had nothing to do with the failure.

Actually battery pack swap is pretty quick- on the Model 3 they have to remove the back seats to access bolts, but otherwise drop it from under the car. Tech said the swap is 7 minutes in an X or S, slightly longer for the 3. The wait is shipping of the replacement batteries, can take 4-5 days. Model S loaner car.

 

[boaterva]

Since you set the car to charge to 80% or 90% (we use 90 on the car that commutes 70 miles daily, 80 on the less used one, and Elon has said 90 is fine) the BMS can take care of the battery. Remember there is no way to not charge to 100% on a cell phone when plugged in all the time.

 

[ceekz]

The end result is that Tesla is replacing the rear drive unit. Surprise! Not the battery after all. According to the tech, the motor and the battery are on the power train circuit, and a fault in the motor triggered faults in the battery since they are inline in the circuit. (The car basically stopped communicating with the battery.)

Sounds like the battery and motor should not be sharing a circuit! The car should be ready tomorrow at the latest, possibly today. No word on what caused the fault in the drive unit, but I'll know more when I am at the service center. Interesting that if either the battery or the drive unit could be the cause, the assumption was the battery. Also would like to know if the power drain I experienced while parked last week was related directly to the faulty drive unit issue.

 

[Chris350]

The end result is that Tesla is replacing the rear drive unit. Surprise! Not the battery after all. According to the tech, the motor and the battery are on the power train circuit, and a fault in the motor triggered faults in the battery since they are inline in the circuit. (The car basically stopped communicating with the battery.)

Sounds like the battery and motor should not be sharing a circuit! The car should be ready tomorrow at the latest, possibly today. No word on what caused the fault in the drive unit, but I'll know more when I am at the service center. Interesting that if either the battery or the drive unit could be the cause, the assumption was the battery. Also would like to know if the power drain I experienced while parked last week was related directly to the faulty drive unit issue.

Yep.... You nailed it...

I started getting this error about 3 weeks ago.... I happened to have a service appointment for tire rotation and mentioned this error.

"Car Needs Service - Car may not restart"

They pulled the logs and indicated that it was just a software error and it would clear when I get an update...

Update came and error would still randomly appear... Error would clear after I placed the car in park at which time the car would do a full powerdown and reset. This would clear the error. This was the only way to get it to clear. The hold of the steering buttons (reset) would not clear the error.

Yesterday, I took it back into service for this error issue.... They ran a full diagnostic on the car and came back with the same "rear drive unit" issue.

The rear drive unit has been ordered (can't even imagine how long it will take to get one to WPB, Florida) and will be replaced.

So I sit with an older Model S 60 (loaner w/autopilot) and wait.

Question I have is will this new motor be warrantied for a full 50K or 2 years?

 

[Krazaak]

Question I have is will this new motor be warrantied for a full 50K or 2 years?

Parts replaced while under warranty usually assume the remainder of the original warranty, not a reset. That said, drive unit should be covered by 8yr/120,000 mile warranty, assuming LR.

 

[ceekz]

The rear drive unit has been ordered (can't even imagine how long it will take to get one to WPB, Florida) and will be replaced.

I guess it helped that I'm about 90 miles from the Fremont factory, but the drive train replacement was done in 2 days, less than it would have been for a battery pack to ship from Nevada. Interesting that your failure was intermittent, and mine gave me zero warning. I still don't know (and will never know) if it was the relay or the actual unit that was bad.

 

[Chris350]

I guess it helped that I'm about 90 miles from the Fremont factory, but the drive train replacement was done in 2 days, less than it would have been for a battery pack to ship from Nevada. Interesting that your failure was intermittent, and mine gave me zero warning. I still don't know (and will never know) if it was the relay or the actual unit that was bad.

Yeah...

That's my concern.... I won't really know if it's the drive unit or something else.

I have read a few threads that have shown this error and the repairs were cables or battery (12v or packs) and drive units.

 

[untilcomplete]

Any update to this error? My 3 just came up with error. Reset and seems fine but made an appt anyway.