Car won’t charge on HPWCs/UMC, says check Wall Power

[Reddy Kilowatt]

I'm very close to you, also, which makes it weird that you aren't having the same issues. Literally around the corner from Eastgate, off Planting Field.

So am I. I'm not having a problem with charging. But I cant use my voice commands that Tesla says will be fixed with Rev 10. Of course it is always the software. Gosh I hope they haven't screwed this up again. I just got 28.3.2 yesterday. I do swear we are charging slower. My sons 3 hasnt had any issues. He lives down near Ciro's.

Im off Sarazen on Glasgow, next street down, just off the golf course.


The highest I've seen on my Solar Edge inverter is 249, and lowest is 240, but I don't have a record of actual max and mins, of course. I've put in a call to the electrician that installed my HPWCs, but all he could really do is measure the voltage at the HPWC which we 99.99% know is going to be the same as at the inverter. It's at the end of a 100 Amp circuit that is about 50 feet away from the breaker panel on all new wire made for sustained 80 Amp loads. Obviously the voltage drop for no load is as close to zero as you can get and that's where we are when it's testing the voltage 'acceptability'. (I do know something about these things, as I was trained as an EE. )

I would say the voltage posted in your car is deadly accurate. A volt meter would be the same. Can you plug the 3 in first then plug in the X. did that make any difference. reason I ask would that pull down the static voltage level, hopefully enough to trick yours into charging. I will check the voltage on mine tonight.

If you were to ask the power company to come out the best they could do is lower the voltage taps in the transformer 2 1/2 percent. But i doubt they have taps. they get the cheapest they can. I think we have 5 houses on one transformer.

Do you have a whole house surge arrester / TVSS on your house? I do. Tesla has the white Auto transformers on most of the Super chargers to clean up the power. Leesburg has them. I forgot what Gainsville has.

I would be curious what you read when the temperature drops tomorrow.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

@Reddy Kilowatt , Was it you that had a neighborhood problem a few years ago that caused the HPWCs not to work? IIRC, several houses in a neighborhood had an issue that nobody could figure out. Tesla finally got involved and contacted the power company which ended up fixing the problem.

I found @MP3Mike remembered the same thread as me but I haven't tracked it down yet: Car won’t charge on HPWCs/UMC, says check Wall Power

Looks like it was maybe @bob_p in this thread: Charging problems

 

[erik_k]

If you’re handy, or have an electrician coming out anyway disconnected the HPWC and install a 14-50 socket then try the UMC. That’s at least a second validation of the branch circuit.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

My voltage was 234volts with no load. 225 under full charge and has stayed there for over 30 min.

@Reddy Kilowatt , Was it you that had a neighborhood problem a few years ago that caused the HPWCs not to work? IIRC, several houses in a neighborhood had an issue that nobody could figure out. Tesla finally got involved and contacted the power company which ended up fixing the problem.

I found @MP3Mike remembered the same thread as me but I haven't tracked it down yet: Car won’t charge on HPWCs/UMC, says check Wall Power

Looks like it was maybe @bob_p in this thread: Charging problems

Not me. But I had power issue back when I started posting on this thread.

 

[boaterva]

Guys, thanks, but been through all this over and over testing it. Two HPWCs, the 3 has no effect on the X, tried the UMC on the dryer circuit, and on the 14-50 on the same circuit, it’s the car that doesn’t like the higher voltage. No change when it’s in ‘don’t like the power mode’. All circuits give the same power and all hardware does also.

Unless my local (very local power) is really 10 volts higher for a reason, I don’t get it. And nothing else in the house has ever had a problem.

Don’t have a whole house surge protector but what would that have to do with static voltages? Lost me on that one.

If we’re really that much higher voltage that close to you, I can give NOVEC a call.

 

[boaterva]

@Reddy Kilowatt , Was it you that had a neighborhood problem a few years ago that caused the HPWCs not to work? IIRC, several houses in a neighborhood had an issue that nobody could figure out. Tesla finally got involved and contacted the power company which ended up fixing the problem.

I found @MP3Mike remembered the same thread as me but I haven't tracked it down yet: Car won’t charge on HPWCs/UMC, says check Wall Power

Looks like it was maybe @bob_p in this thread: Charging problems

David, that first thread is this one.

The second one is a red ring on the CAR, I have red on the APP only. Red on the car is a bad connection, or some other major issue. I've never had that, only 'Check Power' on app and car, and Red charge port in the app.

 

[MP3Mike]

Have you read this thread at all? Tesla has checked everything. The charger is fine, and there is NO voltage drop. How can there be a voltage drop when 20 feet away at the inverter it says what it is and it's high, or fine, and the car rejects it? For the third time, Tesla says they can't do anything.

How did they check the charger? If your charger has a failure mode that they haven't seen before they probably wouldn't have a check for it. So unless they replaced your charger and you still have the same problem I wouldn't agree that the charger has been ruled out as the culprit.

 

[boaterva]

How did they check the charger? If your charger has a failure mode that they haven't seen before they probably wouldn't have a check for it. So unless they replaced your charger and you still have the same problem I wouldn't agree that the charger has been ruled out as the culprit.

How do I know? I totally agree with you. Tesla knows everything that I've stated in this thread and have done all that they are going to do. If you have a way to force them to replace the charger, let me know. I'd love for them to do so.

 

[davewill]

How do I know? I totally agree with you. Tesla knows everything that I've stated in this thread and have done all that they are going to do. If you have a way to force them to replace the charger, let me know. I'd love for them to do so.

You've had an electrician check the circuit and the utility check the incoming power all at Tesla's insistence, and they've found no problems. To me, that makes it Tesla's responsibility again. I'd consider opening up an arbitration case to get them to fix the car under warranty, like some of the people with the yellowing screens have done.

BTW, None of the voltages you've reported are out of the ordinary. The spec is 240v plus or minus 5%, which takes you up to 252v. You haven't reported it being that high, so asking the utility to lower it would not seem to be the correct approach, anyway.

 

[boaterva]

You've had an electrician check the circuit and the utility check the incoming power all at Tesla's insistence, and they've found no problems. To me, that makes it Tesla's responsibility again. I'd consider opening up an arbitration case to get them to fix the car under warranty, like some of the people with the yellowing screens have done.

BTW, None of the voltages you've reported are out of the ordinary. The spec is 240v plus or minus 5%, which takes you up to 252v. You haven't reported it being that high, so asking the utility to lower it would not seem to be the correct approach, anyway.

As I've stated I've NOT had an electrician look at or had the utility look at it. Not sure where the confusion keeps coming from. Those are next on the list.

I do not know how Tesla 'tests' things beyond plugging in a HPWC to see how it works. They may or may not test the main charger board, as they called it but that's not stressing it with high or low voltages (and, I know 248 isn't even 5%, I have no idea why this problem even exists).

If it were 260 or something, it would be a thing. No idea why 248 or something is a problem. And frequency never varies, either, according to the inverter. Waiting on the electrician who installed the HPWCs now, but I don't know what he can add. People (not here) seem to think electricians can work magic. When it's all new cabling and nothing to fix, beats me what they could actually do.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

but I don't know what he can add. People (not here) seem to think electricians can work magic. When it's all new cabling and nothing to fix, beats me what they could actually do.

All the electrician can do is check his connections in those tiny little Lugs in the HPWC or at the panel for loose connections. ( when I wired mine, I was really concerned that those lugs would break off the board if they were not properly trained in the enclosure and onto the lug to minimise the strain on the lug) He may also look for the green light or a remote fault light on the unit. Have your book handy.

FYI voltage this morning 241V static, 234V charging. All the AC units had caught up and were probably off. Our transformer feed 4 or 5 houses on my pipe stem.

I had mentioned the TVSS units before for this reason. A TVSS unit will catch the surges and spikes and try to clean up the power on a minimal layer. Tesla monitors the incoming power via the BMS and will kick off line if it doesnt like the quality of the incoming power. The white transformer looking boxes at the SC stations are autotransformers trying to do the same thing. It was explained to me that Tesla evaluates the quality of the incoming power from a utility such as Dominion, which is poor quality. If the power is considered poor they install the Autotransformers. This is why you may or may not see the autotransformers at a given site.

I had though TVSS units were snake oil salesman type stuff until I installed some high quality units with event counters in a data center. you could sit there count the surges during a thunderstorm in the hundreds then go months without an event. We got into some real high quality power studies to try and protect the data centers. they spent millions doing it.


I think you have a software bug like we did before.

 

[boaterva]

All the electrician can do is check his connections in those tiny little Lugs in the HPWC or at the panel for loose connections. ( when I wired mine, I was really concerned that those lugs would break off the board if they were not properly trained in the enclosure and onto the lug to minimise the strain on the lug) He may also look for the green light or a remote fault light on the unit. Have your book handy.

FYI voltage this morning 241V static, 234V charging. All the AC units had caught up and were probably off. Our transformer feed 4 or 5 houses on my pipe stem.

I had mentioned the TVSS units before for this reason. A TVSS unit will catch the surges and spikes and try to clean up the power on a minimal layer. Tesla monitors the incoming power via the BMS and will kick off line if it doesnt like the quality of the incoming power. The white transformer looking boxes at the SC stations are autotransformers trying to do the same thing. It was explained to me that Tesla evaluates the quality of the incoming power from a utility such as Dominion, which is poor quality. If the power is considered poor they install the Autotransformers. This is why you may or may not see the autotransformers at a given site.

I had though TVSS units were snake oil salesman type stuff until I installed some high quality units with event counters in a data center. you could sit there count the surges during a thunderstorm in the hundreds then go months without an event. We got into some real high quality power studies to try and protect the data centers. they spent millions doing it.


I think you have a software bug like we did before.

Lol, quite aware of that. But everyone's mantra is 'have your electrician check it' since they have no knowledge of electricity beyond the case where a bad connection screws it up, and no problem solving skills to recognize that's not the issue here. Arg.....

Quite willing to accept software bug, but where? Hard to be the general firmware, since it's been 15 months since this started happening and it's been a dozen releases (and why does no one else have this?).

And the 3 works, as reported. I've been told 'S and X chargers have less tolerance'. Would like to get specs on what those tolerances/limits actually are so we can report that the power IS within spec or not.

 

[boaterva]

Found this on the charging page, no other real 'charger' specs I can find, and this isn't really a charger spec, as the HPWC is just a pipe, doesn't really DO anything.... might call and see if Tesla support can give any other numbers (lol). If I do get a clean bill of health from 'the electrician', not sure what else to do except keep pushing for a charger replacement, as someone mentioned.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

Quite willing to accept software bug, but where? Hard to be the general firmware, since it's been 15 months since this started happening and it's been a dozen releases (and why does no one else have this?).

I don't know how to write this but, I get a feeling that there maybe a lack of controls on the software at Tesla? I feel like someone grabs a software package for some bit of info that was good at the time modifies it for a new task. Unfortunately it contains the "fault that causing your problem." and now your back to fighting this again.

An example that makes me feel this way are the Beta windshield wipers. They suck, then we get and update and they work great, never better. Then we get another update im back to crappy wipers. I swear Autopilot does this also, this 28.3.1 update the car is hunting more again. But with AP I believe they are expanding the system and playing with tolerances.

 

[boaterva]

I don't know how to write this but, I get a feeling that there maybe a lack of controls on the software at Tesla? I feel like someone grabs a software package for some bit of info that was good at the time modifies it for a new task. Unfortunately it contains the "fault that causing your problem." and now your back to fighting this again.

An example that makes me feel this way are the Beta windshield wipers. They suck, then we get and update and they work great, never better. Then we get another update im back to crappy wipers. I swear Autopilot does this also, this 28.3.1 update the car is hunting more again. But with AP I believe they are expanding the system and playing with tolerances.

Possible, but I still think I always had this (hardware) from day one and it's the slightly higher voltage of late summer. Very coincidental if both years it was just that, a coincidence. And, again, why does no one or virtually no one else have this? I mentioned this to Tysons saying if it was a known issue, tons of people in NoVa should be reporting it. Never heard of it (of course, you do get that all the time, but still.)

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

Found this on the charging page, no other real 'charger' specs I can find, and this isn't really a charger spec, as the HPWC is just a pipe, doesn't really DO anything.... might call and see if Tesla support can give any other numbers (lol). If I do get a clean bill of health from 'the electrician', not sure what else to do except keep pushing for a charger replacement, as someone mentioned.

View attachment 445451

Well at least it states 250V as the max allowed.

Save me going back over the posts. You can charge a 3 on the same charger without any problem? or you have a second charger for the 3.

If you can charge the 3 in the same HPWC without problems, I would say the issue is your car.

My technicians and myself really get pissed at tech support people who think they know it all, and really don't know it or don't care. It has gotten to the point we know more than the factory does, given there high employee turnover. we know all these guys by name and have figured out there level of expertise. We had a program that contained a flaw. if you changed the default panel name, which logic would say you should, the system wouldn't work. We wasted thousands of dollars and countless conference calls trying to make the system work. Only because one person in there office overheard the speaker call and said it sounds like you changed the default name, you can't do that. We changed the name back and the system works flawlessly. Let the right tech hear the problem and they will solve it.

I had a really bad defroster issue with my car. Three tech calls later I get the right guy on the phone and he cleared the issue right up. The Auto settings had changed and the fan speeds to a fixed low speed.

 

[boaterva]

Well at least it states 250V as the max allowed.

Save me going back over the posts. You can charge a 3 on the same charger without any problem? or you have a second charger for the 3.

If you can charge the 3 in the same HPWC without problems, I would say the issue is your car.

My technicians and myself really get pissed at tech support people who think they know it all, and really don't know it or don't care. It has gotten to the point we know more than the factory does, given there high employee turnover. we know all these guys by name and have figured out there level of expertise. We had a program that contained a flaw. if you changed the default panel name, which logic would say you should, the system wouldn't work. We wasted thousands of dollars and countless conference calls trying to make the system work. Only because one person in there office overheard the speaker call and said it sounds like you changed the default name, you can't do that. We changed the name back and the system works flawlessly. Let the right tech hear the problem and they will solve it.

I had a really bad defroster issue with my car. Three tech calls later I get the right guy on the phone and he cleared the issue right up. The Auto settings had changed and the fan speeds to a fixed low speed.

Ditto to all that...

Yeah, I have two HPWC on shared 100 Amp circuit with long cable just so we can charge either car on purpose. Both work on the 3 and not on the X when it's in 'this' state. UMC doesn't work either (as the thread tiltle says, lol). UMC on separate dryer circuit doesn't either. When the car charger is in this state, it doesn't take anything. Of course, when it went to Tysons, it wasn't 'sick'.

 

[wycolo]

Did you ever get a 'scope hooked up when things were 'bad' to look for noise and/or spikes? Neighbors on your transformer could be dumping crap onto grid. Could you spring for a whole-house surge protector (the kind that mount outside the breaker box so you can see if it ever has blown) to minimize noise? I miss the days when you could read volts and amps right on the MS big screen.
--

 

[boaterva]

Good idea, but: The problem is, the car goes into this state and stays there. It's very hard to say what causes it. You def would need to have a storage scope to look back and see when it did it, because the car is only charging every few days as vampire drain drops it to 77 from 80, for example (not driven that much during the week). When it's in this state, then it sticks until it 'resets' somehow. Been that way now for all this week.

As for the current/voltage, you can still see that. Except when you need it most, when it says Check Power, lol.

I'll see if the electrician wants to volunteer to monitor it, don't even know if they have such equipment.

External surge that causes it to 'lock up' is a good idea, but I would think (please comment, anyone) that SOMETHING in the house would be affected. My computers and the like are on UPSes, but nothing else (microwaves, etc.) have ever had an issue when the car goes into 'don't wanna eat' mode.

The whole house surge suppressor is def a good idea and perhaps I can bring that up with the electrician (HavePower, in Maryland, BTW).

 

[davewill]

... People (not here) seem to think electricians can work magic. When it's all new cabling and nothing to fix, beats me what they could actually do.

I agree with you. The main reason to have the electrician out is to check that box so you can bat the ball back into Tesla's court. Same thing with the utility. I'm convinced you have a faulty charger (with a slight possibility that there's some weird noise on your incoming line), and that Tesla is just being a jerk about it. The voltages reported, while on the high end, are entirely within the car's specs. The thing to do is force their hand as much as you can.