Carbon ceramic brakes

[gearchruncher]

Ironically, a lot of real race cars swap the stock CCB's for steel brakes because the CCB's are so expensive to maintain.

you said "real race cars". i don't consider street cars "real race cars". ceramics are widely used when cost is not a factor

"Ceramics" are not used when cost is no factor. Carbon-carbon is. F1/F2/F3 does not use carbon-ceramic. It's a totally different technology and has been around since the 70's.

But I also said when cost is a factor. Yes, when cost is no factor more exotic stuff is used, but like I said, when cost is a factor, CCB's are not worth it, even in race cars. They are banned in many series due to cost (NASCAR, any kind of spec racing)

Technology is nowhere near them being worth it financially on road cars for performance. They're only good for aesthetics.

 

[red2017s]

Sorry for any confusion. Gearchruncher is 100% correct-----I swapped out the pads only on the vettes. What may scream entire brake jobs to some, may only scream brake pads to those of less knowledgeable about cars. I am the 1st to admit I know zilch about cars, but I do know that with my Tesla I have a lot less parts to be ignorant about..........so that is a good thing. But seriously, I apologize for the confusion.

 

[Sbaimo]

Again I had ceramics AMG-GTS. They were great and did not make any unusual noise. But I was told it would cost 13k to replace them.

 

[ucmndd]

There’s no practical reason other than the human impulse to think that “more expensive” == “better”.

The range and environmental arguments presented in the first post are comical.

 

[bishoppeak]

Agree that mine were stupid $, but I did notice an improvement in ride harshness probably due to less unsprung weight.

 

[ucmndd]

Agree that mine were stupid $, but I did notice an improvement in ride harshness probably due to less unsprung weight.

I think the reduction in your wallet’s unsprung weight and the associated confirmation bias has much more impact on perceived ride harshness all things considered.

 

[gearchruncher]

Agree that mine were stupid $, but I did notice an improvement in ride harshness probably due to less unsprung weight.

If you're looking for less unsprung weight, you can probably get more impact from full forged wheels for less.

However... What? Someone sells CCB's for a Model S? Wow!

 

[URBAN LEGEND]

Can I ask how many in thread have actually driven 36000 miles or more on CCBS?

 

[Sbaimo]

Me

 

[gearchruncher]

actually driven 36000 miles or more on CCBS

What do you magically learn at 36000 miles that an attentive driver doesn't know at 1,000 ot 10,000 miles? In an EV, or an ICE car? On the street, highway, or track?
This is a very odd example of gatekeeping. Tell us, how would CCBs highly benefit a Model S like the OP proposed?

 

[Sbaimo]

I am not a big proponent of ceramic brakes as they just cost too much. But if you drive fast and need to stop very quickly, they can be a life saver.
I drive my MB AMG-GTS too fast in general. The one time I needed to stop very quickly, they saved me from an accident.
i was going so fast into an unexpected lane of cars sitting still, I slammed the brakes as hard and quickly as possible. As I approached the sitting car in front of me, I braced for the accident. I was absolutely startled that the brakes stopped that car quick enough to avoid what seemed to be inevitable. I am a believer.
On the downside, it was a bit of a learning curve to adjust to brakes that were that sensitive. First week I was jerking myself and passenger around quite a bit. Once I got used to them, they were fine for everyday driving. And of course, the cost of replacement was 13 grand from Mercedes if you needed to replace them. I never needed to replace them, so all in all, it was a very positive experience.

 

[gearchruncher]

I drive my MB AMG-GTS too fast in general. The one time I needed to stop very quickly, they saved me from an accident.

No, they didn't. CCB's do not reduce your single use stopping distance. Stopping distance is dominated by tires. I don't have CCBs on the Model 3 that I race, and I can lock up full racing slicks at any speed I have ever tried (well above 100 MPH).

 

[URBAN LEGEND]

What do you magically learn at 36000 miles that an attentive driver doesn't know at 1,000 ot 10,000 miles? In an EV, or an ICE car? On the street, highway, or track?
This is a very odd example of gatekeeping. Tell us, how would CCBs highly benefit a Model S like the OP proposed?

So the answer is no? You haven’t?

 

[gearchruncher]

So the answer is no? You haven’t?

Correct. I've driven them about 1,000 miles on the track in some very quick cars, and maybe a couple thousand on the street.
Not across the magic 36,000 mile barrier though, so I'm unqualified to answer about the "phenomenal" weight savings, increased range, lack of corrosion and judder, better stopping distance, or total cost of ownership over the life of a car vs steel discs where one rock can cost you $5K if it chips a rotor. On an EV. That people already claim never need brake jobs because regen is so great.

 

[URBAN LEGEND]

Correct. I've driven them about 1,000 miles on the track in some very quick cars, and maybe a couple thousand on the street.
Not across the magic 36,000 mile barrier though, so I'm unqualified to answer about the "phenomenal" weight savings, increased range, lack of corrosion and judder, better stopping distance, or total cost of ownership over the life of a car vs steel discs where one rock can cost you $5K if it chips a rotor. On an EV. That people already claim never need brake jobs because regen is so great.

Unqualified. <— You said it. Not me.

 

[gearchruncher]

Unqualified. <— You said it. Not me.

As someone qualified, please share your wisdom on how CCBs would highly benefit a Tesla Model S's performance or cost of ownership.

At least we should get it as an option.

You can buy them FYI, about $15K. If they're so obviously worth it, you should do it.

 

[pabla]

Can I ask how many in thread have actually driven 36000 miles or more on CCBS?

I dont know if you are asking about an EV with CCB being driven over 36k miles but I have driven around 50k kms (31k miles) in my RS7 with CCBs. Tracked it pretty hard once too and still have plenty of brake life left (by this point RS7 owners are usually on their second set of steel pads and rotors). They squeal like crazy, probably because of the hard track day. They don't really have any on street use honestly since they don't help with stopping distance. CCBs are great for track on an ICE car but even then most track enthusiasts go with steel brakes for track since the rotors are way way cheaper to replace. CCBs on an EV IMO are useless and a waste of money bc of regen braking.

Edit: My RS7 came with CCBs standard so I had no choice. My new RSQ8 had the option of CCBs and I opted out, however the premium for the CCBs was about the same cost as 2 steel brake jobs. But again on an EV you are not changing the brakes as much as an ICE car.

 

[Sbaimo]

No, they didn't. CCB's do not reduce your single use stopping distance. Stopping distance is dominated by tires. I don't have CCBs on the Model 3 that I race, and I can lock up full racing slicks at any speed I have ever tried (well above 100 MPH).

Well I guess we disagree. I believe what I experienced. And I have owned a lot of sports cars. Nothing brakes like that GTS IMO if I am allowed to have an opinion.

 

[gearchruncher]

Well I guess we disagree. I believe what I experienced. And I have owned a lot of sports cars. Nothing brakes like that GTS IMO if I am allowed to have an opinion.

I have no doubt that was/is an amazing, very capable car. It's just that it would stop just as well with steel brakes at least the first time, since that braking distance and confidence is set much more by tires and suspension than the friction surface.
If CCBs reduced stopping distance, manufacturers would sell them based on this, but they don't. They're sold based on their multi-use fade resistance and the low dust.

Here's an EVO magazine test of a Jag with and without ceramic brakes. The steel discs actually outperform on the first stop (ceramics need some heat) and some of the intermediate stops until the steels overheat. But like the reviewer says, this is all about tires until the steels overheat after about 14 stops in a row from 100 MPH.

 

[Sbaimo]

I have no doubt that was/is an amazing, very capable car. It's just that it would stop just as well with steel brakes at least the first time, since that braking distance and confidence is set much more by tires and suspension than the friction surface.
If CCBs reduced stopping distance, manufacturers would sell them based on this, but they don't. They're sold based on their multi-use fade resistance and the low dust.

Here's an EVO magazine test of a Jag with and without ceramic brakes. The steel discs actually outperform on the first stop (ceramics need some heat) and some of the intermediate stops until the steels overheat. But like the reviewer says, this is all about tires until the steels overheat after about 14 stops in a row from 100 MPH.

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You very well might be correct. Regardless of whether they were ceramic or not, the car stopped quicker than I expected. They certainly were more powerful than my MB SL550. I don’t expect to drive my new S in the manner I drove the AMG. Thanks for all the info. Interesting